Is anyone finding the buying process frustrating?

[we"reofftoneverland]

I keep running into Sellers and brokers unwilling to come down on prices at all. They seem to completely ignore the fact that the market isn’t doing what they want it to do and won’t accept any currently reasonable offer.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Just because you want to buy for a certain price, doesn’t mean a seller has to sell for that price. The seller holds the cards. They can sell or not.

I think a lot of people selling right now are not selling for economic reasons. They are selling for ideological reasons. So they don’t have to sell. And there are only so many DVC contracts. Supply and demand.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Yes, that's the point. If someone says yes, that's the market value for that thing.

But that’s not really the case. When someone says “yes”, that’s the market price for that transaction, but not necessary the market value of the asset (the underlying value of the asset). Price is transaction-based. You might more accurately define it as the fair value (the price which is fair between two specific parties). Either way, it’s not the market value.

Market, or “open market” value of the asset is based on the broader open market, and not discrete sales. It represents the reasonable value of the asset based on arms-length transactions not influenced by the discrete parameters of individual buyers or sellers. The market price, or fair value defined by a singular transaction can be well above, well below, or within what is considered to be the market value. If someone were to come along and pay $300 per point for a resale VBR contract, we wouldn’t say “well, that’s the new market value”, you’d say that was the market price or fair value. For that transaction.

The difference between the two is what is economists sometimes describe as disequilibrium.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes, that's the point. If someone says yes, that's the market value for that thing.

It's a buyer's market right now. I don't see any issue putting out a ton of offers, and I wouldn't take rejection personally. Especially now, when the market seems to keep declining. There are still motivated sellers, and you only need one. And a motivated seller in a declining market is not in a good spot.

Not necessarily...I was willing to take $120/pt for SSR last year because I didn't care....it got swooped up into ROFR, so in that case, my saying yes was well below market.

I do, think, however, when you start seeing more and more lower offers get accepted and pass ROFR, you have a better idea of that the "market".

 

[TinkAgainU]

I think the Big difference between Sellers and Buyers is simply - Buyers are looking at the upfront money, while most of the Sellers have paid off contracts, so unless the Sellers truly need the money for something urgent, or feel there is a better "investment" they want - their only holding cost is the dues (which BTW are already paid for this year). In many cases, the dues are considerably less than even one discounted night at the nicest WDW resorts. WDW has a huge "memories" and "future wishes" factor for many. Hard to walk away from that emotionally.

 

[theplanets14]

Make more offers and move on. It’s a buyers market. It’s not worth getting caught up over rejected offers.

This.

 

[theplanets14]

Yes - somewhat. I have made several offers over the last month - none of which were accepted. My offers were NOT the lowest on the ROFR thread and were above the "Instant Sale" price. The closest I came was on a PVB offer that was somewhat reasonable - we were only about $5 apart. I chose to pass b/c it wasn't my preferred use year. I would have probably taken that offer if it had been "perfect".

I don't know how some folks are getting the great deals on the ROFR thread. I wish I knew the secret...until then, I will just keep offering until I find one that accepts.

I jumped on mine because I saw it posted and I can afford it. Thought it was a great price but then 3 weeks later a bunch of similar contracts dropped at a slightly lower price. But the low contracts get gobbled up quickly. Mine was only posted for 5 hours when my offer was accepted.

My suggestion is to stalk the new listings daily.

 

[eandt]

Yes - somewhat. I have made several offers over the last month - none of which were accepted. My offers were NOT the lowest on the ROFR thread and were above the "Instant Sale" price. The closest I came was on a PVB offer that was somewhat reasonable - we were only about $5 apart. I chose to pass b/c it wasn't my preferred use year. I would have probably taken that offer if it had been "perfect".

I don't know how some folks are getting the great deals on the ROFR thread. I wish I knew the secret...until then, I will just keep offering until I find one that accepts.

Admittedly not well versed on the resale sites but why would you offer more than the "instant sale" price which in my mind I equate to "buy it now"? Just curious

 

[eandt]

My advice… scour the sites and try to get postings when they first appear. If a posting has been up since October, there’s a high likelihood they are just not that interested in selling and have received many offers.

My other piece of advice, if someone is offering a really high price point, don’t bother. If they’re already asking $20 more per point for the going rate and there are other similar contracts around, you’re unlikely to get them to move all the way to where you want to be.

Be patient… it may take weeks or months. Or, your prices might need to be adjusted a little bit. I personally think $60 is reasonable for HHI… I don’t think many people view it that way.

Also, just because you see one price listed here as ROFR, doesn’t mean everyone is willing to sell at that price point… Let’s see how many AKV contracts really do go for $90… one sale does not create a trend.

Are those sales on ROFR thread actually checked on or are they self reported here and unverified?

 

[Sandisw]

Admittedly not well versed on the resale sites but why would you offer more than the "instant sale" price which in my mind I equate to "buy it now"? Just curious

The instant sale price is meant to be below what one can sell for if a seller waits for a buyer.

Since a seller has listed it, it means they want more than what the broker would have given them to accept the instant sale price.

 

[Brett Wyman]

I've always just offered what the contract was listed for, if the price was what I wanted. And left it at that.

 

[Cfabar1]

Are those sales on ROFR thread actually checked on or are they self reported here and unverified?

They are self-reported. I would imagine most people are not just fraudulently listing point sales, some might be every now and then, but I would imagine the vast majority are genuine. Who would benefit from listing prices that show someone got a “great deal” Other than bragging rights on an internet message board?

 

[TinkAgainU]

Are those sales on ROFR thread actually checked on or are they self reported here and unverified?

Unverified, although some members have been on the site long enough, and actively posting, so you'd likely take them at their word. You can check Deeds recorded with the Orange Country recorder - but usually no practical way to tie them to a specific poster - plus, those records are probably 60 days or more after an accepted offer is posted here. Also, some of the contracts go to, or even get thru ROFR, but do not close for whatever reason. Just my two cents worth - perhaps someone knows more?

In theory, someone could post low numbers hoping to drive a market down (or boasting), or put a high number hoping to bolster their similar contract on the market. But I assume there are Buyers who never look at, or post, on Disboard.

 

[tom1944]

Unverified, although some members have been on the site long enough, and actively posting, so you'd likely take them at their word. You can check Deeds recorded with the Orange Country recorder - but usually no practical way to tie them to a specific poster - plus, those records are probably 60 days or more after an accepted offer is posted here. Also, some of the contracts go to, or even get thru ROFR, but do not close for whatever reason. Just my two cents worth - perhaps someone knows more?

In theory, someone could post low numbers hoping to drive a market down (or boasting), or put a high number hoping to bolster their similar contract on the market. But I assume there are Buyers who never look at, or post, on Disboard.

I checked contracts on the Orange County website. The only thing I could not verify was how loaded the contract was.

 

[TinkAgainU]

I checked contracts on the Orange County website. The only thing I could not verify was how loaded the contract was.

I think the OP wanted to know if we had a way to verify the ROFR statements on Disboard were correct. Unless you are 1) willing to wait 60 days to check against Deeds, and 2) if the Disboard member is using their Real name on here ... there is no way to check each one. You (Tom) are more likely to have a deed under Thomas, than I am to have one under Tinkerbell (it could happen

 

[beldred]

I keep running into Sellers and brokers unwilling to come down on prices at all. They seem to completely ignore the fact that the market isn’t doing what they want it to do and won’t accept any currently reasonable offer.

Anyone else experiencing this?

It's a buyers market right now. Just keep shopping. Decide what you MUST have. Then decide what else you'd LIKE to have. Then look through brokers. I made a list of contracts for sell at the resorts I was considering (3 resorts) at about 10 different brokers. I weighted them for my personal preferences (use year, current points, and what the total outlay would be at MY offer). I then started down my list making offers. I wanted to pay $90pp, willing to go to $93. I made an offer, waited 24 hours for a response and didn't take it personally if they said no. If they countered my 90, I countered with 93 giving another 24 hours then moving on. I had an accepted offer in less than a week. Just don't take it personally and just keep swimming! If you aren't being unreasonable, you'll find your match.

 

[TheLyinKing]

I've learned to just use the ROFR thread as a starting point for how LOW things are going. And then make an offer that I was comfortable with. Looking to add on a small contract, and I'll continue to make lower offers that I feel would benefit me, and if not, I'll buy that small contract as an add-on if the points are close. No hard feelings. Some people are just willing to take a wait and see approach. You just have to find a motivated seller as noted above.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I think ROFR thread is directionally backed up by board sponsor and Fidelity monthly resale reports. There will always be outliers so a thinly traded properties may appear more extreme.

 

[TheLyinKing]

I think ROFR thread is directionally backed up by board sponsor and Fidelity monthly resale reports. There will always be outliers so a thinly traded properties may appear more extreme.

Yeah I mean you never know a person's situation. A buyer may have found someone who was desperate to get out due to financial constraints. Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw.

 

[tom1944]

I think the OP wanted to know if we had a way to verify the ROFR statements on Disboard were correct. Unless you are 1) willing to wait 60 days to check against Deeds, and 2) if the Disboard member is using their Real name on here ... there is no way to check each one. You (Tom) are more likely to have a deed under Thomas, than I am to have one under Tinkerbell (it could happen

I just checked what BLT deeds had ownership changes for a certain period. I then looked how many went to Disney and how many went to non-Disney new owners.

The period I checked Disney took back a contract at $126 and another at $130.

Later tonight I will go in and check new entries up to February 22

 

[TinkAgainU]

I just checked what BLT deeds had ownership changes for a certain period. I then looked how many went to Disney and how many went to non-Disney new owners.

The period I checked Disney took back a contract at $126 and another at $130.

Later tonight I will go in and check new entries up to February 22

That's a good point, we assume there are "no" ROFRs because we don't see them on Disboards - not true.