Is anyone finding the buying process frustrating?

[Brian Noble]

I confess I see both sides of this one. Yes, it's all spelled out. But more or less every decision anyone makes is rooted in unexamined emotions. The fundamental nature of timeshares makes it very easy to put the emotional-decision system in conflict with the rational-decision system.

Guess which side wins most of the time?

 

[DonMacGregor]

I confess I see both sides of this one. Yes, it's all spelled out. But more or less every decision anyone makes is rooted in unexamined emotions. The fundamental nature of timeshares makes it very easy to put the emotional-decision system in conflict with the rational-decision system.

Guess which side wins most of the time?

Apparently the “Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer” side…

 

[tom1944]

What’s the solution besides foreclosure for people that do not pay?

 

[DonMacGregor]

What’s the solution besides foreclosure for people that do not pay?

Apparently, just letting them not pay.

 

[Matty B13]

Have you ever read completely through any contract from a financial and/or real-estate company???? It would take you a few days, along with contacting a lawyer to explain half the legal-speak in most of them. Even then you would probably have to hire a lawyer to sue the company to hold them to the contract in order to enforce it in a court of law. People wonder, besides most lawyers, why people don't read them they are far to complicated for the average person to understand.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Have you ever read completely through any contract from a financial and/or real-estate company???? It would take you a few days, along with contacting a lawyer to explain half the legal-speak in most of them. Even then you would probably have to hire a lawyer to sue the company to hold them to the contract in order to enforce it in a court of law. People wonder, besides most lawyers, why people don't read them they are far to complicated for the average person to understand.

Actually, in California at least, mandatory mediation and arbitration clauses are included in every real estate contract, regardless of whether you read it or not (which is kinda impossible as you'll see below). The clauses are required to be on their own separate page under their own heading, so the language isn't buried. They also have a dedicate initial line for both the buyer and seller, with the paragraph above the lines in all caps, summarizing again, in simple language, what you are agreeing to.

 

[TinkAgainU]

Actually, in California at least, mandatory mediation and arbitration clauses are included in every real estate contract, regardless of whether you read it or not (which is kinda impossible as you'll see below). The clauses are required to be on their own separate page under their own heading, so the language isn't buried. They also have a dedicate initial line for both the buyer and seller, with the paragraph above the lines in all caps, summarizing again, in simple language, what you are agreeing to.

I'm reasonably sure (since the rest of the US thinks California is so law-heavy) - California has no "mandatory" real estate contracts. However, since most real estate brokers use the "standard" California Association of Realtors forms - they have Mediation requirements (which if ignored, just mean even if you prevail you waive receiving attorney's fees), Arbitration is optional, which is why people initial (or don't) to agree to Arbitration on that form. Just showing off that I read those forms That said, I'm pretty sure I don't have a clue what is hidden in the DVD documents.

I DO like that the different DVC Broker's Purchase Contracts at least tend to be short enough to read.

 

[Sunnyore]

From January 1 through February 20 Disney Vacation Club purchased 146 contracts. 29 were from SSR.

Many of these may have been foreclosures and not regular sales. I would have to look at each to determine that.

@Sunnyore let me know which resort you are concerned about, and I will check the sales.

I just passed ROFR for SSR at $104.00

I just signed a contract for BLT. I didn’t need anymore points but I couldn’t stay away from the fire sale. But now I’m curious what was the highest buy back price. I really thought disboard was decent representation of the numbers but I guess that’s not the case.

 

[Nabas]

The market is changing and those sellers who want to sell and see the current market price as “reasonable” will be able to sell faster than those that are simply not in any rush.

Yes, the market is changing. Resale inventory is swelling but we also are coming up on the historical busy season. Historically, March and April are big months for direct sales. If we see weak demand, then we might see resale prices drop.

Certainly, the resale market is ice-cold compared to what it was in the summer of 2021.

 

[Brian Noble]

 

[DonMacGregor]

I'm reasonably sure (since the rest of the US thinks California is so law-heavy) - California has no "mandatory" real estate contracts. However, since most real estate brokers use the "standard" California Association of Realtors forms - they have Mediation requirements (which if ignored, just mean even if you prevail you waive receiving attorney's fees), Arbitration is optional, which is why people initial (or don't) to agree to Arbitration on that form. Just showing off that I read those forms That said, I'm pretty sure I don't have a clue what is hidden in the DVD documents.

I DO like that the different DVC Broker's Purchase Contracts at least tend to be short enough to read.

I've never seen anyone not use a CAR contract. I assume you wouldn't find too many lenders wanting to stray too far off of that form. I'm not sure as to the "optional" arbitration as the clause reads (emphasis added):

The Parties agree that any dispute or claim in Law or equity arising between them out of this Agreement or any
resulting transaction, which is not settled through mediation, shall be decided by neutral, binding arbitration. The
Parties also agree to arbitrate any disputes or claims with Agents(s), who, in writing, agree to such arbitration prior to,
or within a reasonable time after, the dispute or claim is presented to the Agent. The arbitrator shall be a retired judge
or justice, or an attorney with at least 5 years of residential real estate Law experience, unless the Parties mutually
agree to a different arbitrator. Enforcement of, and any motion to compel arbitration pursuant to, this agreement to
arbitrate shall be governed by the procedural rules of the Federal Arbitration Act, and not the California Arbitration
Act, notwithstanding any language seemingly to the contrary in this Agreement. The Parties shall have the right to
discovery in accordance with Code of Civil Procedure § 1283.05. The arbitration shall be conducted in accordance
with Title 9 of Part 3 of the Code of Civil Procedure.

There also isn't a separate initial line for both mediation and arbitration, it's a single line for both. Now, if one party doesn't agree to the language, it's their right to ask for a modification, but I honestly don't see why anyone would. You're going to be heard by a seasoned litigator, likely a retired judge, if you did skip mediation/arbitration, you'd be getting a bench trial anyway, and buy opting for ADR, you're not tying up the dispute for years in court.

 

[tom1944]

I just signed a contract for BLT. I didn’t need anymore points but I couldn’t stay away from the fire sale. But now I’m curious what was the highest buy back price. I really thought disboard was decent representation of the numbers but I guess that’s not the case.

From January 1 to February 23 there were 116 BLT sales. 20 were direct from Disney.

12 were ROFR to Disney Vacation Development. There was another contract taken by DVD but it was not from ROFR but I could not verify it was a foreclosure. For some reason I could not track the original sale for that contract. There was a zero deed tax entry on the latest transaction.

There were 83 BLT contracts sold resale in this period.

Its late so I did not check the price per point beyond the few I did yesterday. I will not be able to check more until Saturday.

 

[Sweet T n Me]

I think the missing information is~

What price did the seller originally purchase it for?
Most sellers bought direct from Disney. What year?
Do they still owe money on the contract if they accept your offer?
Do they have other family members on the sellers side that are reluctant to drop that low?

What is the emotional attachment of the sellers?
The contract might be the one Dad bought to give his heirs.
It could be someone who is angry at prices going up and “your offer“ is fuels that
”ripped off” feeling
It could be someone who will profit from your low ball offer, because they too
bought a resale contract during a recession, or bought 20 years ago.

From my recent experience,
I decided what I wanted to pay, then found contracts that I thought fair and didn’t negotiate.
Even then, the seller didn’t sign after they verbally agreed.
Or not pass ROFR. Again, it happened to me.
Finally, I got a contract for BWV, the resort I really wanted for the lowest price at the time.

The resale process takes patience and time.
Remember the killer deal you get will still be less than Disney is selling it for now.

Good Luck!

 

[sethschroeder]

I keep running into Sellers and brokers unwilling to come down on prices at all. They seem to completely ignore the fact that the market isn’t doing what they want it to do and won’t accept any currently reasonable offer.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Send my offer and I don't worry about it is how I always treated it when actively looking.

If you are in a hurry to buy then it comes down to how much is your next trip you are trying to book worth to you extra.

 

[JPKanks]

Divide the deed tax by .007

Some contracts list the sales price but not all

Thanks, Tom!

 

[SrBlonde]

Yea Disney owns palm financial. Pretty much every foreclosure should be them as the lienholder if there is one on any direct contract thats getting foreclosed on for not paying the note.

Not to give you another rabbit hole, but you can bid yourself on foreclosures and it bypasses the ROFR process as DVD has to bid to buy it back and them not winning is basically ROFR.

I am very intrigued by the possibility to bid on foreclosures. Please share more information please.

 

[kilik64]

I am very intrigued by the possibility to bid on foreclosures. Please share more information please.

I just know about the very basics, some others here know a lot more than me on it.

 

[SrBlonde]

I just know about the very basics, some others here know a lot more than me on it.

Do you know what site to go to? That would be a big help in researching.

 

[Chili327]

Found this…
https://www.disboards.com/threads/b...tings-going-to-auction-in-march-2019.3732551/

 

[kilik64]

https://dvcnews.com/disney-news/fea...ying-dvc-deeds-at-public-foreclosure-auctions

Older article but I think the basic info is still accurate