Is anyone else not saving or paying for college?

[disykat]

For those of you whose in-state public tuition rates are high, be sure to look at out-of-state reciprocity programs such as the Academic Common Market and WICHE. However, those are not the only programs: look closely at the state system websites of every state that borders your own, many of them will grant in-state tuition in certain fields to residents of neighboring states.

We had big hopes for WICHE. We discovered that many schools that participate really still pick and choose who they give it to. My son got an academic scholarship so wasn't offered the exchange rate, which meant it still cost above in-state. If he had been offered both the adademic scholarship and the exchange, he would have been there in a minute. We thought since it was a less selective school and he was above their average they'd be all over him, but they weren't.

I agree though, definitely look at the exchange programs. They can still work for some people!

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Yup. Women with children should not have to apologize for working any more than men with children should. I love my job and in my own small way, I make the world a better place.

I've got nothing against people who choose to be a stay at home parent, but I would not be a good one at all. I would go out of my mind from boredom. I'm a better parent for having a challenging career.

Every study that has been done looking at the outcomes of kids with SAHPs vs. kids with WOHPs who've used daycare basically come out as a wash, provided the quality of care is good, whether it be from stay at home parents or daycare.

We could survive on my husband's salary as a teacher, but just barely. We would not have any savings for retirement, college or anything else. Working has worked out great for me and great for my family.

This, exactly! In our marriage, I am generally the one who stays home with the children when they are sick or when they are off from school for the odd holiday/teacher service day, because it works better for how my wife's and my jobs are structured (the exception is when I'm out of town on business and a child is sick, in which case my wife stays home without issue). Every single time I go into the office the next day, hug my boss, and remind him that if he needs to downsize, that I'll work for free. I adore my children. I revolve me life around them. They and my wife are, quite honestly, the only people in the world that I give a darn about in the grand scheme of things. But I am no more suited to be a full-time stay-at-home-parent than I am to be a neurosurgeon or an astronaut. My children love me, they know that I value them more than any material thing in the world, they know they are being raised by my wife and me, and they know that we are better parents, by far, because we have challenging careers that we love that keep us intellectually stimulated. My wife and I don't choose to both have jobs because we need the money, we work because it makes us happy and, therefore, makes us better parents. Our choice and the reasons for it is not the case for everybody, but everybody's experience is, for them, valid and real and we as a society need to stop denigrating the choices that other people make.

 

[rockawaybeachgirl]

I'm sure there are those people. But plenty of us who work ENJOY our jobs and we feel our particular work outside the home contributes a great deal to society. And we want to set that example for our children: that adults go to work. They contribute to society, and they make money and pay their bills. They are responsible, active members of the community. And yes, maybe there's a break when a child is young (both me and DH stayed home with our son at various times) but that in general, work means you are productive.

It also allows us not to be plunged into poverty if there's a divorce or death of a spouse. It also allows us to save money for retirement AND college AND go on nice vacations.

It doesn't mean we're living an episode of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, but it does mean that when college time comes, there's a plan to help each child in an appropriate fashion obtain secondary education without burying them in an avalanche of debt.

In the words of David Cassidy, I think I love you.

I worked hard to get my degree and certification (CPA). I have a great job that I love and that I'm good at. Had I not gone back to work after my daughter was born ( I took 6 months maternity leave), I would not have been in the position I was to leave a bad marriage without a second thought about financial stability. Divorce is hard enough, so it was so amazing to not have to deal with that burden. My daughter was of course 'better off' in that siutation DIRECTLY BECAUSE I was working.

Of course this is just one example.

I highly recommend the book 'The Feminine Mistake' (not Mystique). Great analysis of why going back to work can be a really important thing for women from a financial perspective. Of course everyone's situation is different and YMMV.

 

[disykat]

I'm sure there are those people. But plenty of us who work ENJOY our jobs and we feel our particular work outside the home contributes a great deal to society. And we want to set that example for our children: that adults go to work. They contribute to society, and they make money and pay their bills. They are responsible, active members of the community. And yes, maybe there's a break when a child is young (both me and DH stayed home with our son at various times) but that in general, work means you are productive.

It also allows us not to be plunged into poverty if there's a divorce or death of a spouse. It also allows us to save money for retirement AND college AND go on nice vacations.

It doesn't mean we're living an episode of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, but it does mean that when college time comes, there's a plan to help each child in an appropriate fashion obtain secondary education without burying them in an avalanche of debt.

I know this is going further down the path of this stupid never-ending argument, but I think this post is every bit as inflamatory as the one from the SAHM that casued the stir in the first place. Many of us believe you can be productive etc. without working for a paycheck if your family already has enough income to live on.

I've been a SAHM for large sections of my life and feel like the above post describes me as well. I'm productive, I contribute to society, I've planned for everything, I'm putting children through college without debt. Yadda yadda yadda.

It saddens me that people think there's only one way to live and everyone else is worthless. Which side of the argument you're on really doesn't matter.

Until women stop insulting each other rather than supporting each others choices. and that means having real choices to be able to do what you think is best for your family whether it be working or not, women really won't have choices. Women didn't have a choice prior to WWII and were expected to stay home. Now we're trying to take away the choice of wanting to stay home. There's no winning - and we're doing it to ourselves by insisting there's only one way to live.

 

[castleview]

I agree- I knew I couldn't afford to put 2 through college so I had one....a second would have been nice but logically it would not have made sense to have another if I coudln't afford it.



That is one thing I hope will not happen. I would HATE to see my daughter go through all those years of studying hard and working hard just to quit and stay at home!



.

Seriously? So anyone who takes a break from working to raise the kids or changes careers is quitting? You'd be very upset with me if I were your kid. Worked for several years after college, stayed home with the kids while doing part time work when available, now pursuing a different field. I'd have been such a disappointment to you.

 

[LisaR]

I know this is going further down the path of this stupid never-ending argument, but I think this post is every bit as inflamatory as the one from the SAHM that casued the stir in the first place. Many of us believe you can be productive etc. without working for a paycheck if your family already has enough income to live on.

I've been a SAHM for large sections of my life and feel like the above post describes me as well. I'm productive, I contribute to society, I've planned for everything, I'm putting children through college without debt. Yadda yadda yadda.

It saddens me that people think there's only one way to live and everyone else is worthless. Which side of the argument you're on really doesn't matter.

Until women stop insulting each other rather than supporting each others choices. and that means having real choices to be able to do what you think is best for your family whether it be working or not, women really won't have choices. Women didn't have a choice prior to WWII and were expected to stay home. Now we're trying to take away the choice of wanting to stay home. There's no winning - and we're doing it to ourselves by insisting there's only one way to live.

Can I just say that you are on a roll in this thread. I think I have agreed with 100% of everything you have said on every post in this thread.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

My wife did not stay home with ours. We might have been able to swing it with our first, but then again shortly after she was born, I lost my job. The fact my wife was working (AND that we didn't bite off as much house as the bank said we should) allowed us to continue to pay the bills while I looked for work, and for the years following while I was underemployed.

We're now at a place where we've been able to have her step back to a much lower-paying, no benefits, part-time position that allows her WAY more time with our children than she once had. And she loves that.

But, I'm also thankful that in the event i were to lose my current job that my wife has the skillset required to help support our family were it necessary for her to re-enter the workforce full-time. Am I sad she's not utilizing that skillset fully right now? Not in the least. And I'm sure someone out there has a great job specifically because my wife is not occupying that position - someone who might otherwise be unemployed or underemployed. So, there's upsides to everything to go along with the downsides.

There's no one universal answer out there, everyone has to do what works for them. In our case, we've had to change it up a time or two. And we may have to change it up again one day.

 

[sandynd]

Woo-hoo! I get to contribute to two discussions at once! Awesome!

Regarding SAHM vs. WOHM, I am a WOHM, and don't really want to be. I would have LOVED to stay home with my baby, and maybe even have more. But those just weren't options with my background (dirt poor and didn't get any sort of secondary ed until much later) and my DHs situation (chronically underemployed, then ill, now disabled and completely unable to work.) When I hear that someone is a SAHM, my first reaction is a stab of envy. However, my daughter ("raised by daycare") is a fabulous kid, who loves us unconditionally, is bright and happy, and confident, and kind. I guess the daycare didn't do a bad job and now that Daddy is home full time, she'll get the kind of male attention she needs at this age so that she won't have to seek out the wrong kind when she's a bit older.

In terms of paying for college, I've always felt very guilty that we couldn't give our girl a free ride ourselves. I really really want her to not have the hurdles we have had. It's been such a source of stress for us that I wouldn't wish it on the person I love most in the world. We do have a fund started for her, but it certainly won't get her the whole way through. However, we're almost debt free except for a mortgage (for personal debt), and in the past year, we bought a business and are working hard to make it profitable by the time she is old enough to run it. She can have all of the profits from it toward her college, plus whatever is in her fund, plus she can have free room and board with us as long as she needs it, and since we will be mortgage-free by then, I can also do some paying as we go. I guess by borrowing to buy the business, we've taken on the college debt up-front, but we're making it pay for itself before it becomes a burden on her. She will have to work at it though, because if she doesn't, and we have to pay staff to work at it, there will be no profit for her to pay for college with. So there's her skin in the game. Fortunately (well, not so much, we planned it this way!) it's a seasonal business that precisely matches the summer break for college.

My hubby's already retired and we're getting through that, and I'll have a good chunk of money for retirement through some very good advice I received when I first started my entry-level job (contribution matching - I LOVE IT!!). We'll be mortgage free before my daughter will be ready to go off to school, and when we're mortgage free, I will take some of that and invest in long-term care insurance. If all goes well, I can take care of my hubby as long as he lives, launch my daughter off of a great platform into adulthood, and still be able to take care of myself even after I'm old and infirm. And have a couple of vacations so that we can all enjoy each other's company in new and exciting circumstances a few times!

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I will go out on a limb to say that this is not what the poster meant. I don't think she was talking about women who HAVE to work to make ends meet. I think she was talking about people who feel that having possessions is important. You know, people who have to keep up with the Jones's. I know a lot of people like that- they could live quite comfortably and still be a SAHP if they wanted to- but they need the name brand, high end, yada yada STUFF.

I don't judge people who work two jobs because they have to, or even because they don't. But it makes me sad when their need for STUFF is greater than their need to be with their kids. I have seen it. I know there are people out there like that.

I'm one of those parents who gets a "pass" for things like this. As a single mom, people generally acknowledge that I really do HAVE to work, plus as an adoptive single mom, I don't even get judged for how I created my family (e.g. even people who will judge an unmarried woman for getting pregnant, or a low income couple for having a child, seem to think my family is fine). I've had people tell me that they think it's so awful for a mother to work, or that little children NEED their mothers at home, or that children with working mothers turn out terribly. When I point out that my kid seems to be happy, and thriving, and all sorts of wonderful things they tell me that it's fine for me to work because I HAVE to, and not to worry because clearly my kid is resilient.

You know what, my baby didn't know whether I had to work or not. If I had won the lottery right before he came home, it wouldn't have made a difference in our relationship. I put a huge priority on finding the right daycare setting for him, and he thrived there. If I had had a huge inheritance he would have thrived as well. For every minute of his childhood he was in a place where he had love, and attention, and appropriate stimulation, and our family's values reinforced. Yes, sometimes it was by me, and sometimes it was by Grandma, and sometimes it was by a teacher, but he was never without those things.

And if my child could thrive and grow and turn out wonderfully while I was at work, then it's a valid choice, an equally valid way to raise a child. And if it's valid for my child, it's valid for parents who work to have a slightly bigger house, and a college fund, and an occasional trip to Disney; as well as parents who work so they can have a 3rd vacation home, and daily manicures and massages. Either daycare is some terrible thing to do to your child (in which case, I hope you don't support things like welfare reform that make it more difficult for parents to be at home) or it's not, because the argument that my child can thrive in daycare but other kids are harmed by it is absurd.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Let's face facts. There are SAHMs out there who turn the television to Disney/Nick Jr., plop their kid in front of it, and go off to watch television, read a book, play on the computer, or any other number of things that don't involve their children. Then there are SAHMs who spend just about every waking second with their child. They are working with them on colors, counting, and alphabet when they are 2 and 3 years old. They turn cooking dinner into a math lesson. A trip to the zoo is a wonderful lesson in animal science. I think we know which is the better situation when it comes to SAHMs.

Then we have working mothers who know how to separate their working life from their personal life. When they are no longer at work, they are 100% dedicated to family time. They don't come home from work and go to their bedroom and shut the door. Rather, they spend time with their children and spouse hearing about their day, interacting with them, and having quality time with them. Then there are working mothers who never turn off work. They will bring it home with them and work from the moment they get home until well after their child goes to bed. Or they will come home exhausted, draw themselves a hot bath, and tell the kids not to bother mommy. Again, we know which is a better situation for the children.


Some moms work outside the home. Some work from inside the home. Some have no job that brings in an income, but work just as hard as moms who do. Each woman, along with her family, must decide what works best for them. That's what the Womens Movement was really all about. No, we woman don't need to feel that our place is solely at home in the kitchen, vacuuming in heels and pearls, and driving the kids to scouts and soccer practice. However, if a woman chooses that life for herself, we need to support that decision and trust that she is doing everything in her ability to raise strong children who will be productive members of society. A woman does not need to feel that she needs to have a job as a CEO, a surgeon, or a district attorney in order to believe that she will be a role model to her children, but if she chooses that life, we need to support her and trust that she is doing everything in her ability to raise strong children who will be productive members of society. If we, as women, would start supporting each other more rather than tearing each other to shreds (lifestyle choices, body type, etc.) that would be a much better use of our time and be more productive for all of us.



If I pay for my daughter's college education (which my husband and I are actually ahead of schedule for and intend to do) and she chooses to stay home with her children, I will support that. I will know that she has the tools to go to work and support her family should her husband lose his job or suddenly pass. If she chooses to use that degree after she has children, I will support that decision, as well. It's her life. I can help her choose a path and help her pay for it, but I can't force her to continue down a path if that is not where her heart lies. As long as she is able to pay her bills, raises her children well, is a good person, and isn't a burden on society, I will feel that my job was done well.

 

[joedplumber]

My kids will be borrowing and working and we as parents are saving (a little) and plan on borrowing.

When I went to college my parents had $0 saved so they borrowed and I borrowed and I went to school full-time and worked full-time. And at that age I didn't think anything of it. Now having $30k of debt when I graduated to me was not that big of deal considering it only took 6 years to payoff and I lived at home until I was married. Sad part is my first job after college graduation I was making more money than my parents combined so I paid rent of $100 a month to help them out.

I have no problem with my kids coming back home after school to live.

 

[Robbi]

Let's face facts. There are SAHMs out there who turn the television to Disney/Nick Jr., plop their kid in front of it, and go off to watch television, read a book, play on the computer, or any other number of things that don't involve their children. Then there are SAHMs who spend just about every waking second with their child. They are working with them on colors, counting, and alphabet when they are 2 and 3 years old. They turn cooking dinner into a math lesson. A trip to the zoo is a wonderful lesson in animal science. I think we know which is the better situation when it comes to SAHMs.

Then we have working mothers who know how to separate their working life from their personal life. When they are no longer at work, they are 100% dedicated to family time. They don't come home from work and go to their bedroom and shut the door. Rather, they spend time with their children and spouse hearing about their day, interacting with them, and having quality time with them. Then there are working mothers who never turn off work. They will bring it home with them and work from the moment they get home until well after their child goes to bed. Or they will come home exhausted, draw themselves a hot bath, and tell the kids not to bother mommy. Again, we know which is a better situation for the children.


Some moms work outside the home. Some work from inside the home. Some have no job that brings in an income, but work just as hard as moms who do. Each woman, along with her family, must decide what works best for them. That's what the Womens Movement was really all about. No, we woman don't need to feel that our place is solely at home in the kitchen, vacuuming in heels and pearls, and driving the kids to scouts and soccer practice. However, if a woman chooses that life for herself, we need to support that decision and trust that she is doing everything in her ability to raise strong children who will be productive members of society. A woman does not need to feel that she needs to have a job as a CEO, a surgeon, or a district attorney in order to believe that she will be a role model to her children, but if she chooses that life, we need to support her and trust that she is doing everything in her ability to raise strong children who will be productive members of society. If we, as women, would start supporting each other more rather than tearing each other to shreds (lifestyle choices, body type, etc.) that would be a much better use of our time and be more productive for all of us.



If I pay for my daughter's college education (which my husband and I are actually ahead of schedule for and intend to do) and she chooses to stay home with her children, I will support that. I will know that she has the tools to go to work and support her family should her husband lose his job or suddenly pass. If she chooses to use that degree after she has children, I will support that decision, as well. It's her life. I can help her choose a path and help her pay for it, but I can't force her to continue down a path if that is not where her heart lies. As long as she is able to pay her bills, raises her children well, is a good person, and isn't a burden on society, I will feel that my job was done well.

Well said. We're all different and we have to support each woman's decisions. Women really need to stop judging each other. I ahd what I thought was a relly good friendship. This woman decided to go back to school to get an advanced degree in chemical engineering and she told me that i should go back to school too. I told her no that it wasn't something that I wanted to do. She refused to support my decision and got really angry with me. That was the end of the friendship. BTW, she went back to school for about 2 months and then decided it wasn't right for her.

 

[SaraJayne]

How did a thread about saving for college turn into yet another thread denigrating SAHM's?

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

How did a thread about saving for college turn into yet another thread denigrating SAHM's?

Because it has to do with money. Come on, SaraJayne, you know as well as I do that if the thread is about money, jobs, cleaning, or children, it will somehow turn into a SAHM vs. Working mom debate.

 

[SaraJayne]

Because it has to do with money. Come on, SaraJayne, you know as well as I do that if the thread is about money, jobs, cleaning, or children, it will somehow turn into a SAHM vs. Working mom debate.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

It just gets really old.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Yeah, I guess you're right.

It just gets really old.

I know.



In other news, though, my useless SAHM butt beat my old record for number of bonbons I can consume during one episode of Dr. Phil today.

 

[Deb in IA]

How did a thread about saving for college turn into yet another thread denigrating SAHM's?

Because this is the DIS.

 

[nchulka]

I never meant to turn this into a discussion about SAHM vs working moms! I directed my comment to ONE poster who said that her goal in life was to make a lot of money and she didn't even think it was important to love your job, just make tons of money. She said that she was going to steer her daughters toward college goals of making tons of money also. The focus of her post was how important it was to make lots and lots of money in life. I do find that very sad. She puts money and things above time and relationships. I was saying that I value just the opposite. I may drive a 13 year old car but I have all the time in the world to enjoy my life and my kids.

 

[fairy8i8]

I think this depends on the university and where you are in the country. Some excellent state schools are very cheap, especially in-state tuition while other colleges will take most of your children's adult lifetime to pay off their loans. Its all relative and depends on your expectations. I come from NH and in-state tuition at UNH for one year was more than I paid for all 4 years at a private western school that was in the top 3 schools in the nation for my major. Friends at the western college would complain about the expense of college, and I would laugh at them because it was nothing compared to the amount my high school friends were paying.

I think the shock comes for parents when their children choose expensive schools and they find there is an "expected family contribution" to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars each year, and their child can't qualify for financial aid for that portion. It happened to one friend of mine and her parents.

Luckily my husband is a phd and in touch with the scholarship and grant community. His parents would have paid for college, but he got scholarships/grants for his BS, MS, and PhD. I paid for my own college... So we figure we will cover the cost of a cheaper western school like where my husband and I went to undergrad, help our children apply for scholarships and grants, or they can get free tuition at the college where my husband works

 

[aprilgail2]

Well, let's face it. If she doesn't have that all-important Y chromosome, there is no point in her worrying her pretty little head with all that book learning to be a doctor. She should just realize that her destiny is popping out a litter of offspring and staying home and in her place to "raise" them.

Back to the kitchen where you belong!!!!