Is anyone else not saving or paying for college?

[rotlex]

Interesting article and thread. While I have not read all posts, we stand in the middle I think.

While we would love to pay for both our kids college in full, we have come to the realization that is just not going to happen. My wife does not work, well, yes she does, very hard actually, as a SAHM.

Now, that doesn't mean we are not going to help. We will as best we can. For me, at this point, that means we will try to pay for transportation, room and board, food books etc. and anything else we can. Should they choose to go to school close to home, they are of course welcome to live there as long as they like for free.

As much as I hate to say it, there is just know way a full tuition is possible. Really, it would probably take all, and then some, of our retirement savings.

 

[gwynne]

Interesting article and thread. While I have not read all posts, we stand in the middle I think.

While we would love to pay for both our kids college in full, we have come to the realization that is just not going to happen. My wife does not work, well, yes she does, very hard actually, as a SAHM.

Now, that doesn't mean we are not going to help. We will as best we can. For me, at this point, that means we will try to pay for transportation, room and board, food books etc. and anything else we can. Should they choose to go to school close to home, they are of course welcome to live there as long as they like for free.

As much as I hate to say it, there is just know way a full tuition is possible. Really, it would probably take all, and then some, of our retirement savings.

Some other suggestions-
We talked early on about the university short list for our kids. It was an occasional continuing conversation through HS. They had to apply at places we could afford. We encouraged AP or IB. By taking AP courses they both basically completed their freshman year while still in HS. That was a significant savings. They both did a summer term or two, which allowed them to complete their undergraduate degrees in 3 years.

Obviously, you don't want to touch your retirement savings. Consider reading up on what is available in your state, the costs can vary significantly from school to school.
The good news is that there are ways to spend considerably less on a great education and finish faster.

 

[MEK]

I said this before on another thread with the same people, so I'm sure they'll chime in and say they won't - but all the parents I know who've said they'd expect their children to totally pay their own way have ended up helping.

Maybe the OP just wanted to stir the pot a little and see how people would respond to this.

My best advice for a Parent is - start doing your fact finding when you children hit high school (or before). A lot of the stuff you learn comes a little too late and there are no clear rules for what you and your child are up against. A lot of it you learn during the senior year and you wished you had learned 18 months prior.

It's easy to say "go in the military" until your smart, talented, hard working child has absolutely no desire to do so. It's easy to say "get a part time job" until your child who has been working since age 13 is struggling to make ends meet. It's easy to say "go to the local community college" until your child has aced all his APs and the local school doesn't have anything to offer him. It's easy to say "live at home while you go to school" until you realize he'll be commuting FOUR hours a day to the nearest university. It's easy to say "he can work hard and get scholarships" until you see your honor student working his tail off and getting about 1/4 of the expense covered after a trillion essays and applications. It's easy to say "take out loans" until you realize they'll only give him about 5K (don't have exact number here) a year without a parent co-signing. It's easy to say "he'll get grants" until you realize the money YOU make will prevent him from doing so. And most of all, it's easy to say "they'll do better if they do it on their own" until you realize how HARD it is going to be on them and how EASY it will be for you to take the money you've always been spending on them that is now out of your budget and simply put it towards their education, thus HELPING them.

I can relate to this because I live in a state where there is basically one decent state school to attend - the University of Delaware. And as an in-state student you better not even have a C on your high school transcript or you run the risk on non-admission or being funneled to a seed program which involves community college for two years. Even in-state tuition at this school is proportionally higher than surrounding states. There is no reciprosity and a weak academic common market. If you have a bright child you are going to want them to attend a bachelor's program for certain academic majors - say engineering.

In preparing for our FAFSA we were advised to divert some of our savings or make a large purchase (new car / home improvements) prior to the end of 2012. This would lower our EFC. You are literally penalized for saving money in the college game.

Our son is honor role, national honor society, AP Calc two years, AP Physics, and has an SAT score over 2000. However, he is not an underrepresented student and kids with his "stats" are a dime a dozen. If he receives $2000 a year from our state school we will consider ourselves lucky.

The small private schools he has applied to have offered scholarships which will lower the cost from slightly above to 8K a year above our state school.

You need to have a well thought out strategy for how you approach college and each one of your kids will be different. If you advocate the "sink or swim" philosophy, there is a very real chance your child could sink.

Helping your child doesn't mean you have to hand them a four year education on a platter and watch them barf it back out partying, it means you'll be willing to be part of the equation as long as they're working hard and doing their part. I don't think there is a single poster here who has advocated just handing over money blindly. Helping your child with school doesn't mean you're doing the horrific job of parenting described by MissManda in the post above.

PS - providing your child the use of a car, letting them live at home, feeding them, etc. IS helping.

If you have a child who is doing well academically you will want to help that child succeed. With any monetary contribution comes certain inherent responsibilities that your child must and should take.

I have a friend who paid out of state tuition for their son to attend the UD ($42K/year) and failed out. That parent is making that child work this year and recoop those costs.

That's the way it works.

Disykat, I appreciated your well thought out post.

 

[arminnie]

I don't have children so I have no idea what I would really do in real life.

I think everyone should do what they are comfortable doing. If that's paying $60,000 a year for your kids education so be it. If it's not contributing a dime and letting them handle it on their own (yes it is doable) then that's what works for you.

I have degrees from Tulane and Stanford which are on that high end. I never paid a dime of tuition. If a kids is smart enough and works really hard someone will give them a free ride. Not every school - but a lot of really good ones give merit scholarships.

 

[leebee]

We are doing what we can to help DD, but we are really caught between a rock and a hard place because what we earn with what we are expected to contribute is not really feasible. DH and I make about $65K a year, combined (he's a professor, I am an ed tech), with mortgage, a car loan (used 6 year old minivan), and medical debt, but no credit card debt. We have one DD19, who is in the middle of sophomore year at our state University. She lives on campus. Her "standard" financial aid package includes subsidized and unsubsidized loans, a "competitive" loan (forgivable with 4 years of teaching service in specific fields/locations), and less than $1000 in scholarship money. No federal grants, no PELL, no work-study. Although she was #4 in her class and has a combined SAT of 1950, her guidance counselor didn't get her transcript submitted by the cut-off date, so no merit money for DD. (Otherwise it would've been $4000 a year for 4 years). She has a 3-semester GPA of 3.8. So far, DD has about $18,000 in subsidized federal loans in her name. We have been able to avoid the unsubsidized loans so far, which has been a goal. DH and I have paid the balance of her costs, which is about $9000 a year. Because she doesn't have work study, DD has been unable to get a job on campus, and she doesn't have a car so off-campus isn't an option. She is working hard with a double major and a minor, and we are proud of her and will do what we can to support her as much as possible. She has been tutoring athletes when she can (although the athletic department supplies such, so there isn't a lot of business) and has applied to be an RA next year.

DH and I are in our mid-fifties and plan on paying what we can, and then maybe taking a loan against our retirement to help with the rest (rather than taking unsubsidized loans). We have also been talking about selling the house to help pay off DD's loans. We are ready to down-size anyhow; two of us do NOT need a 2200 square foot home! DD will make loan payments, but we want to help. Both DH and I paid for our own educations (including grad school for both of us) and there is NO WAY I want DD to be saddled with the kind of debt we had. We're doing what we can, just like she is.

 

[TXinmyheart]

It's easy to say "go in the military" until your smart, talented, hard working child has absolutely no desire to do so. It's easy to say "get a part time job" until your child who has been working since age 13 is struggling to make ends meet. It's easy to say "go to the local community college" until your child has aced all his APs and the local school doesn't have anything to offer him. It's easy to say "live at home while you go to school" until you realize he'll be commuting FOUR hours a day to the nearest university. It's easy to say "he can work hard and get scholarships" until you see your honor student working his tail off and getting about 1/4 of the expense covered after a trillion essays and applications. It's easy to say "take out loans" until you realize they'll only give him about 5K (don't have exact number here) a year without a parent co-signing. It's easy to say "he'll get grants" until you realize the money YOU make will prevent him from doing so. And most of all, it's easy to say "they'll do better if they do it on their own" until you realize how HARD it is going to be on them and how EASY it will be for you to take the money you've always been spending on them that is now out of your budget and simply put it towards their education, thus HELPING them.

Helping your child doesn't mean you have to hand them a four year education on a platter and watch them barf it back out partying, it means you'll be willing to be part of the equation as long as they're working hard and doing their part. I don't think there is a single poster here who has advocated just handing over money blindly. Helping your child with school doesn't mean you're doing the horrific job of parenting described by MissManda in the post above.

PS - providing your child the use of a car, letting them live at home, feeding them, etc. IS helping.

What an incredibly naive post. I totally disagree with just about everything written.

 

[soccerdad72]

I totally disagree with just about everything written.

I think that was pretty easy to assume given your OP in the first place.

 

[gwynne]

What an incredibly naive post. I totally disagree with just about everything written.

People are just sharing their ideas, suggestions, experiences. It's ok to do that, I think. We don't have to all agree.

 

[pumpkinmomma]

We are doing what we can to help DD, but we are really caught between a rock and a hard place because what we earn with what we are expected to contribute is not really feasible. DH and I make about $65K a year, combined (he's a professor, I am an ed tech), with mortgage, a car loan (used 6 year old minivan), and medical debt, but no credit card debt. We have one DD19, who is in the middle of sophomore year at our state University. She lives on campus. Her "standard" financial aid package includes subsidized and unsubsidized loans, a "competitive" loan (forgivable with 4 years of teaching serviced), and less the $1000 in scholarship money. No federal grants, no PELL, no work-study. Although she was #4 in her class and has a combined SAT of 1950, her guidance counselor didn't get her transcript submitted by the cut-off date, so no merit money for DD. (Otherwise it would've been $4000 a year for 4 years). She has a 3-semester GPA of 3.8. So far, DD has about $18,000 in subsidized federal loans in her name. We have been able to avoid the unsubsidized loans so far, which has been a goal. DH and I have paid the balance of her costs, which is about $9000 a year. Because she doesn't have work study, DD has been unable to get a job on campus, and she doesn't have a car so off-campus isn't an option. She is working hard with a double major and a minor, and we are proud of her and will do what we can to support her as much as possible. She has been tutoring athletes when she can (although the athletic department supplies such, so there isn't a lot of business) and has applied to be an RA next year.

DH and I are in our mid-fifties and plan on paying what we can, and then maybe taking a loan against our retirement to help with the rest (rather than taking unsubsidized loans). We have also been talking about selling the house to help pay off DD's loans. We are ready to down-size anyhow; two of us do NOT need a 2200 square foot home! DD will make loan payments, but we want to help. Both DH and I paid for our own educations (including grad school for both of us) and there is NO WAY I want DD to be saddled with the kind of debt we had. We're doing what we can, just like she is.

Sometimes scholarships are available for upperclass students with good gpa's, depending on her major. She should search within her department and see if there is anything available. In my experience, these scholarships are not always well-publicized and not many students apply. Her advisor might also be a resource.

 

[PlutoPony]

What an incredibly naive post. I totally disagree with just about everything written.

Am curious as to you believe to be naive in what she wrote. I too have a senior and am experiencing what she wrote first hand. The financial side of college is brutal now and there's not nearly as much $$ available (grants and loans) as there used to be. Parents whose kids are seniors in college now are absolutely amazed as how much it has changed for the worse just in the last couple years.

 

[goofy4tink]

What an incredibly naive post. I totally disagree with just about everything written.

Why do you think it's naive??? Besides, everyone is entitled to their own opinion or way of doing things.

I have three kids. My oldest, now 39, has several degrees. We helped him with his first round of college, but when he got out, he decided that he wasn't going to be able to use his degree....English, minor in history!! So, he too a year off and worked. Then, he went to a college and got a degree in finance...finished second in his class. And he has a fair amount of debt due to that. But, he loves his job in finance.
Dd, 36, hated college. She didn't work hard in high school so ended up in a community college...and hated it. She then left and made some subsequent really bad life choices. She is now back in college, taking online classes, getting her associates degree this spring and then continuing to get her BA. And she is paying for it.

Dd, 19, is entering her second semester at a pricey private college. She was accepted at two state schools, that are more than half the cost of her current college. BUT...the school she chose is a a perfect fit for her and she is doing very well there...has a very nice gpa so far. Who is paying for it? My dh and I are, as well as dd. She will graduate with about $25,000 in debt. My dh and I decided to do what had to be done to make this happen for her.
We were 'lucky', if you can use that word in this case, that when dh's mother passed away last fall, a nice amount of money came our way...enough to pay for dd's college for all four years!! Sure, it would have been nice to have all that money sitting in our bank account, but it relieves a lot of stress by being able to use it for college costs. If dd continues getting a grant each year, and the loans that she takes out, we are good to go as far as paying for it.

There is absolutely no way that I am allowing my dd to start off her life, after college graduation, with a huge amount of student loan debt. Yes, every student should have some financial responsibility for their college costs. But certainly not all of it!!! And I certainly don't think that any parent should be paying 100% of the costs. As I said, dd will have almost $25,000 in loans when she is done. She is also responsible for paying for all of her books. She is doing work study and has a summer job to give her spending money...as well as going towards her semester abroad in London as a junior.

Of course, we did tell her that if her grades didn't stay where they should be, she would be pulled out of the pricey private college and sent to a state school. No way are we paying over $40,000 a year for her to have a good time. She can have a good time at $18,000 a year!!!!!


Then, there is this statement, at the end of that article....

Dr. Hamilton found that the students with the lowest grades were those whose parents paid for them without discussing the students responsibility for their education. Parents could minimize the negative effects, she said, by setting clear expectations about grades and progress toward graduation.

Ultimately, its not bad to fund your children, she said. My kids are little, but I plan to pay for them  after we talk about how much it costs, and what grades I expect them to achieve.

 

[Deb in IA]

Here are some interesting statistics:

The Real Cost of Higher Education

An excellent education for your child does not necessarily require that you spend $40,000 in today’s dollars for one year of tuition at an Ivy League school. There are many well-regarded, reasonably-priced private colleges. The average public college or university tuition is lower yet, especially for residents of the state where the school is located.

Type of Institution Projected 4-Year Tuition and Fees
Today (Enrolling 2012) In 18 Years (Enrolling 2030)
Private College $127,100 $362,800
Public/University
(in-state resident) $37,800 $108,100
2 Years Community College
& 2 Years Private College $73,700 $210,400

(Based on average tuition and fees for 2012-2013 as reported by The College Board® and assumed to increase 6% annually.)

According to The College Board®, the average 2012-2013 tuition increase was 4.2 percent at private colleges, and 4.8 percent at public universities. The ten-year historical rate of increase is approximately 6 percent. These figures are substantially higher than the general inflation rate. They are also higher than the average increase in personal incomes.

The figures above do not include other costs your child will incur as a college student, such as room and board, books, supplies, equipment, and transportation. These additional expenses can increase your child’s cost of attending college by a substantial amount.

Sorry the table did not come out right.

Here is the website:
http://www.savingforcollege.com/tutorial101/the_real_cost_of_higher_education.php

 

[Christine]

I don't have children so I have no idea what I would really do in real life.

I think everyone should do what they are comfortable doing. If that's paying $60,000 a year for your kids education so be it. If it's not contributing a dime and letting them handle it on their own (yes it is doable) then that's what works for you.

I have degrees from Tulane and Stanford which are on that high end. I never paid a dime of tuition. If a kids is smart enough and works really hard someone will give them a free ride. Not every school - but a lot of really good ones give merit scholarships.

arminnie,

Sadly, I don't think this is the case anymore. Certainly some kids will get a free ride, but over the years the "push" for higher education has finally worked. More people than ever are going to college. In fact, the high school class of 2013 is one of the largest pool of freshman applications in history. I've heard that stat in several places. As stated above, truly smart brilliant kids are a dime a dozen anymore and there just isn't enough merit aid to go around. Parents just need to be aware that the game has changed a bit.

 

[fun4me]

We haven't save a penny for college for our boys. We are tackling it one boy at a time.

My oldest is 18 and it is first year in college. He chose to go to a community college and live at home. He works full time in the summers and holidays and part-time during the school year. He has plenty of money to pay for his own tuition, fees and books just from his employement alone. Luckily we live in a area that has a community college, a 4 year college and a pharmacy school. So far his plan is to live at home the whole time.

Having said that he also received a scholarship that pays for his tuition, fees, books and some living expenses. So now he is saving some of what he earns for pharmacy school--which will cost a lot more. DH and I will do what we can to help out. Our goal is to get him through 4 years of school without any loans. We will help out as much as we can(if he needs it). I don't intend to co-sign any loans but will cash flow what we can at that time.

As far as pharmacy school goes...if the scholarship doesn't cover all of it he will probably have to take a small loan(that is if what he has saved isn't enough) to cover tuition and fees and we will help with his living expenses and books. About this time boy#2 will be heading to college. We also hope to get him through 4 years without loans but with scholarships and him working.

We have plenty of time before #3 starts college he is 6 years younger than #2.

I really don't think there is a right or wrong way to pay for college. If you have the means to foot the bill go for it. If you want your kid to pay for it let them. If you are getting loans educate yourself and your kids on really how long it will take to pay back and what the amount you will possibly owe when it is all said and done.

I also believe not everyone needs a college education. There are trades chools, vo-techs that offer training in some decent paying jobs, some jobs that even pay more than someone holding a 4 year degree. I tell my boys to figure out they will be happy doing and go for it. I also tell them "you are the man and potentially the bread winners for your family so what ever you do make it count, get it done. You are going to want the best for your family and not have to struggle."

 

[GrnMtnMan]

What an incredibly naive post.

Sort of ironic that you used 'naive'.

Here's the thing I find most naive on this thread: to expect a child to pay for college. It is just not the way of the world right now.

We expect our kid to pay for college.

Definition of NAIVE
1: marked by unaffected simplicity : artless, ingenuous

2: deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment

Source.

 

[Meetmeinmontauk]

I am definitely planning on helping my kids out with college expenses when I have children. I am only going to school part time at the moment so that I can work to pay the bills. I am sitting on $60k of student loans and I have a few years of schooling left.

My dad makes great money, but I am the oldest of 4 children so he helps out if I am in a bind. I think you definitely appreciate it more when you are the one paying BUT it's extremely depressing to be that much in debt

 

[Cinderella94]

I go to a public university that costs roughly $39,000, including room and board, as an out of state student.
I earn $8,000 a year in academic scholarships and am also being an RA, which saves $11,000 per year in room costs. I've brought my cost down to roughly $20,000. I do have some loans out to pay for that portion, but my parents have said that they're going to do everything they can to help me pay them off. I never expected them to be able to afford to send me to a pricey out of state school completely without loans, and I'm doing my part as well to lower the cost. I knew when I chose the school that it would be expensive and put me into some debt.

 

[tvguy]

We decided before we had kids that we were going to pay for our kids college.

DW worked and paid her own tuition, and vowed she would never ever do that to her children.

My parents paid mine, and I vowed I would do the same for my kids

Our kids are on notice though, that in our old age that WE may need some help with paying for a nursing home.

We have 2 kids in college now. Biggest mistake we made was allowing DS to get a job.......it lowered his grades enough that he didn't graduate on time, and the additional tuition is more than he earned, would have been cheaper to just give him some extra spending money.

And with the economy the way it is, the sooner you get out of school and can start working up the job ladder, the better.


Actually, when DD and DS went to public college, it was a help to our budget, We had been paying $11,000 a year each in tuition from grades K to 12 in private school, $6,500 a year with books is a bargain.

 

[Funfire240]

I hope to pay for or help my children (2 and 4 right now) however, we have been unable to start saving at this time as we are still paying on our student loans. Once our loans are paid off then we can start putting money away for theirs. My parents helped me where they could and I plan on doing the same for my children. DH only recently went back thru a program so his loans are new where as his parents paid for his initial degree years ago.

 

[Christine]

Sort of ironic that you used 'naive'.

Here's the thing I find most naive on this thread: to expect a child to pay for college. It is just not the way of the world right now.

Source.

I actually enjoyed this gem a little bit more:

I just don't understand the perspective that parents should pay to their children's college education. Or that kids shouldn't have debt. When does it stop?

Re: the bolded part. Really? You think it's OK for a kid to have debt? We all have our different comfort levels, certainly. I don't think it's totally OK for anyone to have debt but most of us do. We have good stable jobs and established careers and then we buy houses. I don't understand the gleeful willingness to saddle a kid with approximately $80,000 in debt to have obtain a 4 year degree. The student has NO way to ever know if they can pay that money back. I sit at work listening to several parents (near tears) lamenting on these student loans that have come due and their kids cannot afford them on the $12 per hour they are making. Guess whose names are on many of the loans?