Is anyone else not saving or paying for college?

[soccerdad72]

Our intention is to pay for our kids' colleges, so long as we can afford it. Anything above and beyond what we can afford, they'll have to take out loans for.

 

[gracie1]

Not sure what "koolaid" you are talking about. I'm talking about my own personal experience as a hiring manager for 10 years.

I know who was successful, who wasn't -- and their backgrounds.

I am the head of hiring at my place of employment, and I don't have the college degree. Just some classes I mentioned in a previous post. So you would consider me unsuccessful?

 

[jodifla]

OK, but when does it stop after college? Grad school? A house, a vacation, and on and on.

Generally the kids who have been and are entering college 30 years since you went are moving back home after college. They are trying to live like their parents instead of having to struggle because their parents "don't want them to struggle."

Having parents born in and raised in the depression makes me understand I already had a life easier than they did. However, my spouse and I have no qualms spending our money on Disney vacations or world cruises while our child has to struggle and earn their own keep and place in life even if it takes them 10 years for a degree. I see so many parents staying in debt because they feel they have to save for college and I don't think that is right. I have no problems with a debt free set of parents offering something like an education match, but not until they are debt free and have a fully funded retirement in place.

My parents were also raised during the depression -- which was exactly why they wanted to make sure I went to college, even though they didn't have a lot of money and I qualified for Pell grants, scholarships and the low-interest Stafford Loans. We took it on as a team endeavor.

As for how long does it go on, well, for me it would likely stop at graduation time, assuming the economy is such that it is reasonable to expect that they could get a job.

And as other people have pointed out, you will actually be an albatross around the neck of your kids as they try to get through college, because your finances WILL be considered as they try to apply for any aid or loans. You may consider yourself untethered from your kids, but the government and all loan institutions will not.

Lastly, I have a child with a disability, so I watch him struggle every day for reasons that have nothing to do with anything he's done. It's not something I recommend as a parenting strategy.

 

[jodifla]

I am the head of hiring at my place of employment, and I don't have the college degree. Just some classes I mentioned in a previous post. So you would consider me unsuccessful?

No. But I would describe your situation as uncommon, and getting rarer by the day.

You would never qualify for that role in my business, for example.

 

[Deb in IA]

No, we absolutely intend to pay for four years at a public university or the equivalent. If I wasn't willing to do that, I wouldn't have had kids, personally.

My parents paid for my college education, and I graduated summa cum laude. It was by far, the best gift they gave me.

We completely agree. This is our case exactly.

OP, you did not quote the rest of the article - including:

- Kids whose parents who pay for their education are more likely to graduate
- The difference in the grades was "modest" and not enough to make the kid flunk out
- Students with the lowest grades were those whose parents paid for them without discussing the students responsibility for their education
- The author of the article plans to pay for her children's college education - after talking to them about how much it costs and what her expectations are for their grades

 

[jennyjinx3]

My oldest is in her first year at college. When she was born, we coudn't afford to put $$ away for college. She knew very early on which career path she was taking and by her sophmore year in high school, she knew exactly which college she wanted to go to. We told her then that we would help her as much as we could but we also let her know what her responsibility was going to be as well. She got a part-time job after school at 17, we gave her a car and paid her insurance upfront for a year. We are paying about 40% of her tuition, she's paying out of pocket for some and the rest, she takes out in a student loan. By the time, she graduates in 3 more years, she'll have about $22,000 to repay. What we didn't tell her was that when she does graduate, we will give her one more installment to put down on the loan which will leave her with a loan of about $17K. I look at it like this: She's living at home for free (we would never charge her board), she has minimal expenses as we're helping her with everything else. We've told her not to be in a rush to move out and incur bills. If she follows our advice, she should be able to pay that debt off in no time once she graduates and once she does, i get to repeat the same scenario for my next daughter...what I do for one, I do for the other. I did just want to add, that we've been teaching our girls the value of a dollar since they were very little and I see nothing wrong with teaching my girls financial responsibility.

This is how we hope to help out our three DD's.

 

[Patience]

Unfortunately parents don't usually know.

It would appear that you would be surprised by how many kids can pull off reasonable, even good or great grades, without putting in their all. If parents think that grades are a reliable barometer, they are fooling themselves.

Grades are a reliable barometer of how well a child is handling college level course work in my opinion. If a student is making good or great grades, they are handling the work successfully. You are, however, correct in that I don't know what my daughter does on a day to day basis while in college. She attends a university about 2.5 hours away from home. However, I do know two things. First, she is a cheerleader and attends 3 early morning workouts a week plus 4 afternoon practices a week plus games and traveling for games. That doesn't leave a whole lot of time for partying plus studying. That being said, I want her to have a good time in school but within reason of course and I think she is. So far, she LOVES everything about her college and I am very happy for her. Second, I know my child and how she learns because I raised her. If she were partying all the time and not studying, it would show in her grades. She made great grades her first semester in college, despite all the time spent on cheer. She earned a 3.868 and made both dean's list and chancellor's list. I really couldn't ask for more than that. If, on the other hand, she had made a 2.0 for the semester, I would have known, beyond a doubt, that she hadn't studied like she should and would give her one more semester to figure things out and buckle down. If she didn't, I wouldn't pay for her to attend that college anymore. Simple.

 

[gracie1]

No. But I would describe your situation as uncommon, and getting rarer by the day.

You would never qualify for that role in my business, for example.

What kind of work do you do?

 

[ZachnElli]

We will not be paying for college, unless we win the lottery. We had started out that we would pay for at least some, but we were hit hard by the recession. Our DD was hospitalized 4 times last year and even with health insurance picking up 80-90% of the tab, it's very expensive. Then my in-laws had not made any plans for their aging years and the unexpected death of my FiL, and we had to pay for the funeral which is also expensive and helping out my disabled MIL (she gets $770 a month of assistance), I'm just hoping to not put my kids in the same situation, paying for us in our elderly years!

 

[jodifla]

What kind of work do you do?

I work for a large media company.

 

[MissManda]

OK, but when does it stop after college? Grad school? A house, a vacation, and on and on.

A co-worker of mine, has two daughters. Her oldest was given 4 cars between high school and college. All she paid towards them was gas. She tore them all up. She did graduate from college (think her parents paid part and she took out loans fo the rest) with a good degree and has a good job. She is in her 30's, lives at home totally rent/bill free. She has since purchased her own vehicle. She apparently makes more than her father does (my co-worker told me this) but can't afford to move out (she spend her money on cloths, expensive pets, jewelry, etc). She also once told her parents that they owed her $5,000 because she didn't need braces and she didn't think it was fair that they spent that money on her sister's braces and she didn't get anything (and she brought this up recently, not back when her sister first got braces but years later).

Her younger daughter has also been given several cars, although she hasn't wrecked them like the other. She went to college out of state. Changed majors 4 times and 6 years later still hasn't graduated. In the mean time, she also got married. Guess who is still paying for her tuition and sending her a weekly allowance? And if the allowance isn't there "on time" guess who is on the phone calling wanting to know where it is?

Oh, and guess who also fully funds all family vacations...my co-worker. She pays for her out of state daughters plane ticket home. Pays for the condo. Provides the transporation. Pays for all the food. The kids don't help out at all. (In my family, when the kids got full time jobs, we had to pay for a portion of the vacation).

She and her husband have spoiled their kids rotten and given them everything. Now, they expect it (like asking to be reimb because you didn't need braces). I think its sad and what is it teaching them? What will these "kids" do when something happens to the parents? I don't think they have done these girls any favors by making life so easy on them.

 

[disykat]

I said this before on another thread with the same people, so I'm sure they'll chime in and say they won't - but all the parents I know who've said they'd expect their children to totally pay their own way have ended up helping.

It's easy to say "go in the military" until your smart, talented, hard working child has absolutely no desire to do so. It's easy to say "get a part time job" until your child who has been working since age 13 is struggling to make ends meet. It's easy to say "go to the local community college" until your child has aced all his APs and the local school doesn't have anything to offer him. It's easy to say "live at home while you go to school" until you realize he'll be commuting FOUR hours a day to the nearest university. It's easy to say "he can work hard and get scholarships" until you see your honor student working his tail off and getting about 1/4 of the expense covered after a trillion essays and applications. It's easy to say "take out loans" until you realize they'll only give him about 5K (don't have exact number here) a year without a parent co-signing. It's easy to say "he'll get grants" until you realize the money YOU make will prevent him from doing so. And most of all, it's easy to say "they'll do better if they do it on their own" until you realize how HARD it is going to be on them and how EASY it will be for you to take the money you've always been spending on them that is now out of your budget and simply put it towards their education, thus HELPING them.

Helping your child doesn't mean you have to hand them a four year education on a platter and watch them barf it back out partying, it means you'll be willing to be part of the equation as long as they're working hard and doing their part. I don't think there is a single poster here who has advocated just handing over money blindly. Helping your child with school doesn't mean you're doing the horrific job of parenting described by MissManda in the post above.

PS - providing your child the use of a car, letting them live at home, feeding them, etc. IS helping.

 

[jodifla]

A co-worker of mine, has two daughters. Her oldest was given 4 cars between high school and college. All she paid towards them was gas. She tore them all up. She did graduate from college (think her parents paid part and she took out loans fo the rest) with a good degree and has a good job. She is in her 30's, lives at home totally rent/bill free. She has since purchased her own vehicle. She apparently makes more than her father does (my co-worker told me this) but can't afford to move out (she spend her money on cloths, expensive pets, jewelry, etc). She also once told her parents that they owed her $5,000 because she didn't need braces and she didn't think it was fair that they spent that money on her sister's braces and she didn't get anything (and she brought this up recently, not back when her sister first got braces but years later).

Her younger daughter has also been given several cars, although she hasn't wrecked them like the other. She went to college out of state. Changed majors 4 times and 6 years later still hasn't graduated. In the mean time, she also got married. Guess who is still paying for her tuition and sending her a weekly allowance? And if the allowance isn't there "on time" guess who is on the phone calling wanting to know where it is?

Oh, and guess who also fully funds all family vacations...my co-worker. She pays for her out of state daughters plane ticket home. Pays for the condo. Provides the transporation. Pays for all the food. The kids don't help out at all. (In my family, when the kids got full time jobs, we had to pay for a portion of the vacation).

She and her husband have spoiled their kids rotten and given them everything. Now, they expect it (like asking to be reimb because you didn't need braces). I think its sad and what is it teaching them? What will these "kids" do when something happens to the parents? I don't think they have done these girls any favors by making life so easy on them.

But this spoiling all started well, well before college. It's the idea of declaring when your child is 2 "I'm not paying for this kid's college because I want him to struggle because I just know otherwise he won't appreciate anything" that's so troubling.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

It is funny on here when you are looking for like minded people, you get a ton of contrarian opinions. Ah well, the nature of any forum.

While there are some instances where we will match funds, we know there are so many ways a child can have their education paid for if not supplemented. Military service and the GI Bill, work one semester, school one semester, programs that pay for college if you agree to a certain amount of service post graduate. Our grandparents did not pay for our parents to go to school. I believe the concept of saving and paying for your child's education to be generally a concept of the past couple of generations.

My grandparents did pay for my parents to go to school.

I believe college to be essential and therefore something to be paid for if possible.

My parents funded my education at an out of state university 700 miles away from Chicago. Took 5 years due to a major change. They simultaneously paid for my sister (one year younger) to attend private college. Was money tight for my parents during those 5 years - sure! But the knowledge and experiences gained was amazing.

 

[jodifla]

I said this before on another thread with the same people, so I'm sure they'll chime in and say they won't - but all the parents I know who've said they'd expect their children to totally pay their own way have ended up helping.

It's easy to say "go in the military" until your smart, talented, hard working child has absolutely no desire to do so. It's easy to say "get a part time job" until your child who has been working since age 13 is struggling to make ends meet. It's easy to say "go to the local community college" until your child has aced all his APs and the local school doesn't have anything to offer him. It's easy to say "live at home while you go to school" until you realize he'll be commuting FOUR hours a day to the nearest university. It's easy to say "he can work hard and get scholarships" until you see your honor student working his tail off and getting about 1/4 of the expense covered after a trillion essays and applications. It's easy to say "take out loans" until you realize they'll only give him about 5K (don't have exact number here) a year without a parent co-signing. It's easy to say "he'll get grants" until you realize the money YOU make will prevent him from doing so. And most of all, it's easy to say "they'll do better if they do it on their own" until you realize how HARD it is going to be on them and how EASY it will be for you to take the money you've always been spending on them that is now out of your budget and simply put it towards their education, thus HELPING them.

Helping your child doesn't mean you have to hand them a four year education on a platter and watch them barf it back out partying, it means you'll be willing to be part of the equation as long as they're working hard and doing their part.

Well put!

 

[Patience]

A co-worker of mine, has two daughters. Her oldest was given 4 cars between high school and college. All she paid towards them was gas. She tore them all up. She did graduate from college (think her parents paid part and she took out loans fo the rest) with a good degree and has a good job. She is in her 30's, lives at home totally rent/bill free. She has since purchased her own vehicle. She apparently makes more than her father does (my co-worker told me this) but can't afford to move out (she spend her money on cloths, expensive pets, jewelry, etc). She also once told her parents that they owed her $5,000 because she didn't need braces and she didn't think it was fair that they spent that money on her sister's braces and she didn't get anything (and she brought this up recently, not back when her sister first got braces but years later).

Her younger daughter has also been given several cars, although she hasn't wrecked them like the other. She went to college out of state. Changed majors 4 times and 6 years later still hasn't graduated. In the mean time, she also got married. Guess who is still paying for her tuition and sending her a weekly allowance? And if the allowance isn't there "on time" guess who is on the phone calling wanting to know where it is?

Oh, and guess who also fully funds all family vacations...my co-worker. She pays for her out of state daughters plane ticket home. Pays for the condo. Provides the transporation. Pays for all the food. The kids don't help out at all. (In my family, when the kids got full time jobs, we had to pay for a portion of the vacation).

She and her husband have spoiled their kids rotten and given them everything. Now, they expect it (like asking to be reimb because you didn't need braces). I think its sad and what is it teaching them? What will these "kids" do when something happens to the parents? I don't think they have done these girls any favors by making life so easy on them.

Again, this is why it's important to raise your children to understand that life is a two way street. I would not pay for anything my children treated as an entitlement. There is no free ride in life and everything has a cost. My children are required to work hard and to be responsible. They do not, nor will they ever be allowed to, run all over me and treat me as the Bank of Mom. I will pay for certain things like college and yes, even their first cars, but in return, I expect certain things like hard work and good grades. She also knows, because we have talked about it since she was old enough to go to college, that we will pay for 4 years of college but that grad school and beyond is on her.

 

[jodifla]

Again, this is why it's important to raise your children to understand that life is a two way street. I would not pay for anything my children treated as an entitlement. There is no free ride in life and everything has a cost. My children are required to work hard and to be responsible. They do not, nor will they ever be allowed to, run all over me and treat me as the Bank of Mom. I will pay for certain things like college, but in return, I expect certain things like hard work and good grades. She also knows, because we have talked about it since she was old enough to go to college, that we will pay for 4 years of college but that grad school and beyond is on her.

I think this is a good strategy.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

But this spoiling all started well, well before college. It's the idea of declaring when your child is 2 "I'm not paying for this kid's college because I want him to struggle because I just know otherwise he won't appreciate anything" that's so troubling.

This. There is a huge difference between paying for your child's college education and spoiling them rotten.




For my husband and me, we are very much of the "don't buy stuff you can't afford" camp. We don't have debt. While we do have a credit card, it is paid off at the end of every month. The only time we ever bought something on credit was our house and one of our cars. We are teaching our daughter to be the same way. Of course there are things out there that would would like to have and could afford if we paid it off over time using credit, but that is not us. We do not spend money today that we will not get until tomorrow. As such, we don't want our daughter to have lots of debt. She will learn early on that debt free is the way to be and not to buy things that she can't afford. We will talk with her about budgeting money and prioritizing expenses. We will teach her the value of planning ahead like we are doing with her college fund and our retirement funds. She will ultimately be responsible for carrying out the lessons that she has been taught, but we will take the first step by teaching her these lessons and the second step by showing her how to put those lessons into practice.

 

[robinb]

Anyway, please don't misunderstand, I'm NOT telling other people what to do. I'm not telling people that my way is the right way for them. I'm just explaining why I feel the way I do. It's the other side that seems to have some problem with those who think differently than them.

It's a discussion board. We discuss things. No one on this thread who plans to send their kids to college and pay their way are threatened by your point of view . Hookairs what your kids do with their future? Not me.

However, comments by you such as this ...

I think you've made the mistake of drinking too much of that koolaid.

All you know as a hiring manager is that they have a piece of paper. You have little to no idea about what transpired while they were getting it.

IDK...leads me to believe that it's because that they are not quite as confident in their decisions as they would like to believe. Otherwise, why would they feel so threatened by a different point of view?

... makes me think of the pot calling the kettle black. No one else is throwing insults around .

 

[4luv2cdisney]

No. But I would describe your situation as uncommon, and getting rarer by the day.

You would never qualify for that role in my business, for example.

That is so unfortunate, because I have met / worked with people that have been much better at their jobs (without having a college degree) compared to others that did have a college degree. I have also seen the reverse. I am not against college by any means, but I think 10 years down the road there is little difference between someone who was given an opportunity straight out of HS, got hands on work experience and training to do their job and the person who spent their first 4 years getting a degree. To some extent, I think the degree simply "buys" you the opportunity in many companies.

Unfortunately, many of those without the degree (even after holding successful positions) will not even be considered at some places and that makes absolutely no sense to me. I would love to see this trend change. There are so many capable, intelligent, willing people out there who did not go to college for various reasons.

My opinion is formed from my office manager experience that included hiring, reviewing, and supervising personnel. I worked for a company that did extensive customized employee testing (including personality profile testing done by a third party) before hiring and paid little attention to whether or not a degree is involved. We had employees from a wide variety of backgrounds and different approaches to where they ended up in life.