Inviting one of daughter's friends but not the other

squirk

Saw what you did and knows who you are.
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
I think you are being a bit too self-conscious about Child B's behavior. I heard plenty of loud yells and cursing on our Disney cruises. It's not first class on the Titanic. What you are suggesting to do to this girl by inviting another equally close friend but not her, and doing so either because she is poor (which is not an "out" because telling her that is the reason would likely be even more hurtful than making it about her cursing) or because she is a bit loud and (like a huge segment of america) curses sometimes seems far far more hurtful than any mild embarrassment that you might feel.

I also note, that I have some concern with the suggestion that A's parents should pay for their daughter's cruise fare. That seems odd; why would the parents pay for their child to go on a vacation without them? You would be basically asking them to pay hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars so that your daughter can have company. And if the parents say no they are put in the awkward spot of being the "mean" parents who won't let their daughter go. I think if you are inviting someone else's child to join your family somewhere: whether to dinner, a theme park, or a cruise vacation, you should expect to pay.
It is not “mild embarrassment”. It is not a case of her being occasionally loud or sometimes cursing. Every kid does that, and that is manageable.

Kid B is more than that. Kid B has gotten us asked to leave restaurants in the past if she didn’t curb her language. Kid B regularly wanders off in group outings for no particular reason, forcing impromptu search parties to find her and ruining things for others, to where she’s not allowed on school field trips anymore.

Again, she means no real harm, but keeping her in check is a job in and of itself. All the more so on a ship out in the middle of international waters or in a foreign port, where my wife and I have assumed responsibility for her well-being.

I think I already acknowledged that using her family’s inability to pay as a pretext, while feasible, would probably just make the girl feel worse. I agree that that’s not the way to go.

Finally, I would not ask Kid A’s parents to pay. We know them well, and they would insist on paying. We would insist on paying. And in the end, we’d probably wind up splitting it, as we’ve often done, with roles flip-flopping, in similar situations over many years.
 
Last edited:

Snow White DPMP

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Sep 14, 2019
It is not “mild embarrassment”. It is not a case of her being occasionally loud or sometimes cursing. Every kid does that, and that is manageable.

Kid B is more than that. Kid B has gotten us asked to leave restaurants in the past if she didn’t curb her language. Kid B regularly wanders off in group outings for no particular reason, forcing impromptu search parties to find her and ruining things for others, to where she’s not allowed on school field trips anymore. Again, she means no real harm, but keeping her in check is a job in and of itself.
This post alone gives you your answer.
Clearly bringing kid B even if you also bring kid A would not be a very relaxing trip for you.
Bring neither and be done.
 
  • lunaland

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Oct 20, 2014
    To add a different perspective here: I didn't have a great childhood, had socially unacceptable/ unpredictable behavior at times, and was pretty poor. I didn't go to Disney until I was an adult, but boy did I want to go! It hurt, a lot, when my cousins or friends got to go on amazing trips with their family. If there's a way for you to pull this kid aside, tell her you really care about her and want to share this trip with her, but that you would have higher expectations of her behavior on this cruise than she's shown you in the past?
     

    squirk

    Saw what you did and knows who you are.
    Joined
    Apr 9, 2011
    To add a different perspective here: I didn't have a great childhood, had socially unacceptable/ unpredictable behavior at times, and was pretty poor. I didn't go to Disney until I was an adult, but boy did I want to go! It hurt, a lot, when my cousins or friends got to go on amazing trips with their family. If there's a way for you to pull this kid aside, tell her you really care about her and want to share this trip with her, but that you would have higher expectations of her behavior on this cruise than she's shown you in the past?
    My wife and I discussed that. Kid B has had several “sit-downs” yet still struggles to keep things under control in familiar and comfortable circumstances. If she can’t hold it together for a 90-minute trip to The Cheesecake Factory, we are not sure we feel comfortable taking a leap of faith with a 6-day cruise.

    Maybe if we see improvement, we can invite Kid A and Kid B on our next cruise.
     

    mmouse37

    DCL Diva!!
    Joined
    Jun 29, 2001
    Well, that is my "out," if I wanted to go that way. Kid A's family could afford to pay her fare. Kid B's family could not.

    But excluding Kid B ostensibly because of her family's financial status would probably just make her feel worse.
    I wholeheartedly agree!!

    MJ
     

    starry_solo

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 19, 2010
    I would take Kid A.

    Yes, Kid B's language and behavior is a product of her upbringing, but she is 13 years old. She is old enough to know right from wrong when she is exposed to people other than her family (which she is, via your family, school, and possibly other activities).

    Based upon what you said on post #41, she is apparently unwilling or unable to unlearn such behavior to the extent that she is banned from school field trips and gets people almost being asked to leave restaurants?!
     
  • lanejudy

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Oct 27, 2011
    has a different perspective on what's allowable public behavior and what is not. Kid A is kind of manic and can be unpredictable. Tends to deviate from instructions. Yells at the top of her lungs a lot at inappropriate times.
    Kid B = good-hearted kid; not willfully disobedient, but unruly to the point of often being socially inappropriate
    Kid B is more than that. Kid B has gotten us asked to leave restaurants in the past if she didn’t curb her language. Kid B regularly wanders off in group outings for no particular reason, forcing impromptu search parties to find her and ruining things for others, to where she’s not allowed on school field trips anymore.

    Again, she means no real harm, but keeping her in check is a job in and of itself.
    Somewhat off-topic and I may be off-base here with limited information - but these few statements are starting to sound like there is more than just an average “inadequate role model/home/upbringing” situation. Unable to stay with a group, loud outbursts and unable to control behavior for 90 minutes sounds like this child needs an evaluation. She could be high-functioning ASD. My heart breaks for this child whom it seems could really use some services to help her learn appropriate social skills. My guess is she really struggles in school as well, both socially and academically.

    OP - you are generous to consider taking one or both girls, and very considerate to think of the impact to one if excluded. I do agree with others, though, that making it s family-only vacation is the best approach.

    Enjoy your vacation!
     

    Snow White DPMP

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    Joined
    Sep 14, 2019
    Somewhat off-topic and I may be off-base here with limited information - but these few statements are starting to sound like there is more than just an average “inadequate role model/home/upbringing” situation. Unable to stay with a group, loud outbursts and unable to control behavior for 90 minutes sounds like this child needs an evaluation. She could be high-functioning ASD. My heart breaks for this child whom it seems could really use some services to help her learn appropriate social skills. My guess is she really struggles in school as well, both socially and academically.

    OP - you are generous to consider taking one or both girls, and very considerate to think of the impact to one if excluded. I do agree with others, though, that making it s family-only vacation is the best approach.

    Enjoy your vacation!
    I too started to get the feeling that there could be an undiagnosed medical condition involved but wasn't sure.
     

    squirk

    Saw what you did and knows who you are.
    Joined
    Apr 9, 2011
    Somewhat off-topic and I may be off-base here with limited information - but these few statements are starting to sound like there is more than just an average “inadequate role model/home/upbringing” situation. Unable to stay with a group, loud outbursts and unable to control behavior for 90 minutes sounds like this child needs an evaluation. She could be high-functioning ASD. My heart breaks for this child whom it seems could really use some services to help her learn appropriate social skills. My guess is she really struggles in school as well, both socially and academically.

    OP - you are generous to consider taking one or both girls, and very considerate to think of the impact to one if excluded. I do agree with others, though, that making it s family-only vacation is the best approach.

    Enjoy your vacation!
    I too started to get the feeling that there could be an undiagnosed medical condition involved but wasn't sure.
    We have thought about this, too. To our knowledge, her parents have not had her tested. Academically, she does extremely well.

    That having been said, the family situation is rough. Rough enough where I could see any kid - with or without a diagnosis - bringing their baggage from home into other social situations.

    As I said, I don’t blame this girl one bit for the environment in which she was raised.
     
  • tinkerone

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 3, 2007
    Personal experience here. When I was 13 (a million years ago) I had two very very close friends. We did ever thing together. One day we were all talking about things we would like to do and the idea of taking horseback riding lessons came up. I was the one from the low middle class family with eight brothers and sisters so paying for that sort of thing was really out of the question while they were each from upper middle class families with very few siblings and paying for this was not going to be an issue. It was decided that they would take lessons and I would meet up with them after classes. Well that didn't work out well. They had things to talk about that I didn't have any knowledge of and as much as they tried to include me I was left out. They ended up having conversations that excluded me because I didn't have the experience and that in itself pulled us apart. We were no longer the close group we were before two of the three got to have lessons.
    My point is, if you do indeed take one and not both then your daughter and the one who gets to go will have something in common that they will talk about for a very long time and it will exclude kid B, she will never feel part of the trio again. For a teen this is a very big deal. JMO.
     

    K8T

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 30, 2007
    Please don't leave one.

    As a parent of a child who frequently gets excluded from sleepovers, or weekends away, I see the heartbreak, I see the stoicism and the affect it has on my daughter,

    Sadly her problem isn't that she is rude, or behaves inappropriately, but she has celiac disease, so it takes a little bit more thought in preparing meals or if eating out. I get that, it is a nuisance for us to when we eat out too, but my 14 year old is hurt every time she hears the others, a group of four, planning something without her, these are the ocassional sleepovers, imagine them going on a cruise!

    Please take neither. Have a lovely family cruise and maybe take them all away somewhere cheaper and less stressful another time,
     

    Auntrosie

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 2, 2013
    I vote for take both or neither. Child B is who she is. If you do decide to take both, you and your family may be surprised at which of the girls gets on your last nerve. Good luck 👍
     

    Auntrosie

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 2, 2013
    It sounds to me like Kid B would benefit more from having this experience with your family. Being in situations where she is expected to live up to behavior standards are going to be life shaping opportunities for her. If it were me I’d take Kid B and your daughter out to lunch and have a frank talk. Tell Kid B you’re thinking of taking her but haven’t confirmed. Tell her flat out what the expectations would be- close quarters so no swearing and quiet voices. Good manners at dinner and respect for other guests etc. ask her if she thinks she can meet those expectations and what she wants you to do if she’s not meeting them on board? Or how she can show you she’s practicing those behaviors before you go?

    I think teens can handle that kind of conversation and need to onow
    What their behaviors look like from the outside. (Gently obviously)

    But I don’t think it’s going to be a good situation for you to only take Kid A. That’s going to cause drama for your daughter. I don’t think anyone would judge you for taking just Kid A but probably the easiest thing for your own kid is to take both or neither.
    No don’t do this. Child B is not your child. You’ll inflict a lasting hurt.
     

    Auntrosie

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 2, 2013
    When my wife and I did a Med./WBTA without our kids/gkids, three of the gkids were not happy (it was during school and way to long for them to take off). However, we told them we would take them with us anyway, ala Flat Stanley (look it up if you don't know about him). Our son-in-law photoshopped the faces of all five of them onto images of their favorite princesses (and prince). When we were in Parc Gruell in Barcelona we pulled them out (about 7" tall) and took photos of them by the signature lizard...likewise on Punta Delgada, at the leaning tower of Pisa, etc.
    Perhaps you folks could do the same with Kid B and mention that you might take her on a future (when she calms down a bit) cruise. In the meantime, take photos of Kid B with Kid A and your daughter on various adventures on the cruise and show them to her when you return, maybe even do a small scrapbook. Good luck!
    No family is different......
     

    squirk

    Saw what you did and knows who you are.
    Joined
    Apr 9, 2011
    With the added info of the fact that she does extremely well in school really makes me think there could be a medical condition as many kids on the spectrum are very book smart but lack social cues.
    Well, she does OK socially, too. She has friends beyond just my daughter and Kid A. She's a little off-kilter, a little weird, but in more of a "quirky" or "eccentric" vein. Not a social outcast. And she's a 4.0 student, too.

    Maybe the best way to put it is the "manic pixie dream girl" archetype - she is a little manic, and her eccentricities can be charming at first blush, but the more involved you get with her, the more those eccentricities and her frenetic energy start looking like they're indicative of actual problems.
     

    Auntrosie

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 2, 2013
    You're situation was different because you didn't taken any of the kids. Doing this would make Kid B feel even worse, look at everything we did without you. Plus OP could say they would take her on another trip some day, but something in the future could happen that prevents them from being able to do so. Have you discuss this with either set of parents, do you even know if they would let you take their daughters on the trip? You don't say how old they are, just in high school which where I live could be anywhere from 14-19 yrs old. At 14 I can see it causing a lot of problems, but a 17-19 yr old should be able to understand that there are things in life that they may not always get to do. I think it is wonderful that you are even considering this, good luck with making a decision.
    The relevant difference is the OP’s story involved family where the love and acceptance is unconditional. The OP’s situation/question involves an emotional teenager who’s self esteem could be damaged.
     



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