Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisina--in 2009!

[Laura]

Some Muppet Show stuff to liven things up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYVQ7pyhAVo

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

While I will preface my remarks by saying that I do not agree with his decision, I don't know the regulations for a JP. Maybe they can refuse to marry people based on personal convictions?

If there are regulations that state that a JP must marry anyone who meets the legal/civil requirements for marriage and this man has chosen not to do that, then he should be reprimanded appropriately.

He did not refuse to marry them.

He refused to issue a marriage license.

A marriage license is a govt document. So I would presume a JoP is a govt official who legally has the authority to issue such a document.

(i.e. my priest can't give me a marriage license.)

For us--we got our marriage license at the court house and I would presume it would be a JoP since judges are kind of busy with court cases.


A quick google shows that it is an appointed official.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

So we are back to name calling again. The JoP has a right to his opinion too so what should he call you?

If he did wrong as far as his job goes then his supervisors should and probably will do something about it.

He withheld a legal document that would permit the couple to marry.

I don't know what he is other than someone who denied an established constituational right.


We have many DMV's here--I suppose in your world, if a woman or a person of color went and got a license and that particular dept decided that only white men could have them (for whatever reason)--that it is okay since you can go to another DMV that might allow female or persons of color to obtain a license.


This man didn't refuse to marry the couple--he refused to issue the license for them to do so.

Not okay--and he should be removed from his post for not being able to uphold the constitution.

 

[NikitaZee]

So we are back to name calling again. The JoP has a right to his opinion too so what should he call you?

If he did wrong as far as his job goes then his supervisors should and probably will do something about it.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think the term 'bigot' is calling names, but I could be wrong. I think that is an accurate term for him. In the rest of the news article, he makes a point of saying that he has many black friends and they even 'use his bathroom'. If he wasn't bigoted, he wouldn't need to qualify who he allows to use his bathroom? Just my humble opinion.

 

[Praying Colonel]

According to the Louisiana Justices of the Peace and Constables website, they are elected government officials.

According to this (scroll down to Section 30), every public official in Louisiana takes the following oath:

I, . . ., do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution and laws of the United States and the constitution and laws of this state and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as . . ., according to the best of my ability and understanding, so help me God.

This case indicates that he is not fulfilling his duty to support the constitution and laws of the United States by refusing to marry mixed-race couples.

According to the first website's FAQ page, the Louisiana Supreme Court oversees Justices of the Peace in Louisiana. My guess is that more than 1 complaint has been or will be submitted to the Louisiana Supremes and they will deal with him in due course.

 

[C.Ann]

I'm confused.. All we had to do to get a marriage license was to go to City Hall, provide the necessary documentation, have it stamped by the city clerk, and we were good to go.. JOP wasn't involved with the issuing of it at all..

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm confused.. All we had to do to get a marriage license was to go to City Hall, provide the necessary documentation, have it stamped by the city clerk, and we were good to go.. JOP wasn't involved with the issuing of it at all..

Maybe Louisiana is different?

JoP isn't listend with the Judges and the Parish website isn't very helpful in regards to getting a marraige license.

Googles of how to get one just yield license requirements on several hits and this story about the couple being denied.

 

[Heidict]

He did not refuse to marry them.

He refused to issue a marriage license.

A marriage license is a govt document. So I would presume a JoP is a govt official who legally has the authority to issue such a document.

(i.e. my priest can't give me a marriage license.)

For us--we got our marriage license at the court house and I would presume it would be a JoP since judges are kind of busy with court cases.


A quick google shows that it is an appointed official.

Actually, the JoP does marry people. The actual marriage license is usually obtained from your town hall or courthouse. The JoP's wife said that he refused to sign off on interracial marriages because, after a marriage is performed, then he, as the one who married them, would have to sign the marriage certificate.

Generally it is just a clerk who would issue the license at the town hall or court.

 

[lovemygoofy]

I'm confused.. All we had to do to get a marriage license was to go to City Hall, provide the necessary documentation, have it stamped by the city clerk, and we were good to go.. JOP wasn't involved with the issuing of it at all..

Maybe Louisiana is different?

The couple already had the marriage license from the city. The JoP refused to marry them because he would not sign the marriage license which means they couldn't file and be married.

The JoP has to sign a marriage license to make it official just as anyone that gets married in a church or at city hall.

 

[Disney Doll]

See bolded

He did not refuse to marry them.

He refused to issue a marriage license.

A marriage license is a govt document. So I would presume a JoP is a govt official who legally has the authority to issue such a document. I am quite sure he has the legal authority to issue a marriage license. What I don't know if he has a legal requirement to do so. I'd be interested in one of our DIS lawyers speaking to the difference between authority and requirement. I don't like to presume anything when it comes to the government and the legalities therein.
(i.e. my priest can't give me a marriage license.)

For us--we got our marriage license at the court house and I would presume it would be a JoP since judges are kind of busy with court cases.


A quick google shows that it is an appointed official. OK...and again, I would ask what the legal (not moral, ethical or poopular) requirements are for the job.

If you reread my previous post, I do not agree with what the gentleman did. I am merely saying that unless there is a specific regulation in his job description that says he MUST issue a marriage license to everyone who comes before him, that he cannot discriminate etc. etc, then he doesn't have to do it, regardless of whether or not I think he's a bigot. I am trying to point out ethical vs. employment differences. And as I said above, I don't like to presume anything when it comes to government....

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The couple already had the marriage license from the city. The JoP refused to marry them because he would not sign the marriage license which means they couldn't file and be married.

The JoP has to sign a marriage license to make it official just as anyone that gets married in a church or at city hall.

I got it now. Found an article that explained it better.

He still abused his power as a govt elected official.

While I certainly wouldn't get married by him, I do think he deserves to be reprimanded as the govt cannot do that (Loving vs.VA--I think that's the case!)

 

[minkydog]

I disagree. He is obligated to follow the law and perform his duties. And what if there were no other JoPs available? Would you also think it okay for a cop to fail to respond to a domestic violence call because he was a fundamentalist who thought it was okay for men to beat their wives? If his personal beliefs about race inhibit his ability to do his job he should change careers. I feel this way about pharmacists who have "moral" problems with birth control, too.

Absolutely right. When you hold a job which carries a certain civil authority you are obligated to put aside your personal feelings and beliefs or step down from that job. I'm a nurse. There are certain things that I am very uncomfortable with,especially pregnancy termination. I have worked in jobs where I have had to care for women after a termination until they were okay to go home. I didn't like it, but I performed my job anyway. I wasn't required to participate in teh termination, which would have been a deal-breaker for sure. In my opinion it would not have been justified for me to take a stand just because I think differently than my patients.

I hope this guy loses whatever licensing he has for being a justice of the peace. He's an embarrassement to his profession and to the people of Louisiana (and oh, btw--has he never been to New Orleans? One of the most multi-racial cities in the U.S.? Sheesh)

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

See bolded
If you reread my previous post, I do not agree with what the gentleman did. I am merely saying that unless there is a specific regulation in his job description that says he MUST issue a marriage license to everyone who comes before him, that he cannot discriminate etc. etc, then he doesn't have to do it, regardless of whether or not I think he's a bigot. I am trying to point out ethical vs. employment differences. And as I said above, I don't like to presume anything when it comes to government....

A poster posted that he is an elected official who takes an oath to uphold the laws and the constitution.

Since this couples right to marry is constitutionally protected, he broke the law by refusing to uphold the constitution based on his personal convictions.

 

[cats mom]

I certainly don't understand the JoP's position, and from his comments in the article I absolutely think he's a racist. His black friends use his bathroom and everything... wow!

But there was an agenda here. The wife is pursuing a masters degree in minority politics and as I understand it from the article, she called the JoP at home to ask if he would marry them (otherwise she wouldn't have been talking to his wife) She already knew exactly what his answer would be.

"I've been a justice of the peace for 34 years and I don't think I've mistreated anybody," Bardwell said. "I've made some mistakes, but you have too. I didn't tell this couple they couldn't get married. I just told them I wouldn't do it."

I have no doubt that the ACLU had their letters drafted and press releases prepared before the phone call was ever made.

This wasn't a case of some poor couple not being able to get a license or get married. This was a set up.

Is it OK to go after the guy like that? I don't know.

Personal beliefs and rights vs job responsibilites can be a complicated can of worms IMO

 

[Laura]

I certainly don't understand the JoP's position, and from his comments in the article I absolutely think he's a racist. His black friends use his bathroom and everything... wow!

But there was an agenda here. The wife is pursuing a masters degree in minority politics and as I understand it from the article, she called the JoP at home to ask if he would marry them (otherwise she wouldn't have been talking to his wife) She already knew exactly what his answer would be.

"I've been a justice of the peace for 34 years and I don't think I've mistreated anybody," Bardwell said. "I've made some mistakes, but you have too. I didn't tell this couple they couldn't get married. I just told them I wouldn't do it."

I have no doubt that the ACLU had their letters drafted and press releases prepared before the phone call was ever made.

This wasn't a case of some poor couple not being able to get a license or get married. This was a set up.

Is it OK to go after the guy like that? I don't know.

Personal beliefs and rights vs job responsibilites can be a complicated can of worms IMO

If he's been pulling this crap for 34 years and it was never brought to light before now, I think it was past time for him to be "set up". I have to wonder if his superiors knew of this.

 

[GeorgeG]

Everyone is entitled to personal beliefs and opinions, but those should not carry over into a job as a public official (or any other job). This is 2009, not 1909, and such discrimination is (always was) way out of line. Unfortunately, people like this still get elected or appointed so it seems we still have a long way to go.

 

[ozarkmom]

I live in Arkansas and my husband is a quorum court member (justice of the peace). He is an elected official. He does not issue the marriage licenses. He sometimes gets calls to marry people. He doesn't care what color they are. If he's available when they want to get married then he usually does it. He is not obligated to marry anyone. When he does marry them he signs the license and then the couple take it back to the clerk at the courthouse to be filed. His obligation as a quorum court member is to attend the meetings and serve our county and the people of his district. I'm assuming it's basically the same in Lousiana. Now I do not agree with the things this man said he sounds totally racist and plain stupid. On the other hand I don't think he should have to marry anyone but giving his reasons was just plain ignorant. Part of the story sounds like they were already married and didn't have the license signed. I agree with another poster that it sounds like this was the response they were hoping for. I wouldn't waste my time on the moron but whatever floats your boat.

 

[hereyago]

Just recently at a predominately African American University here in VA., a non African American won a beauty contest of the school and there was much said about that from the students.

Racism is alive and well and on all sides.

 

[tinatark]

The article title is misleading - it got the buzz yahoo news (or whoever posted it first) wanted - the couple was not denied a marriage license. The JOP refused to perform the marriage ceremony.

Many licensed professionals do not offer services based on their personal beliefs - doctors, pharmacists, among others.

They also take an "oath" to uphold the law - but you have to be able to uphold the law without compromising your own principles, whether others agree with them or not.

 

[Disney Doll]

A poster posted that he is an elected official who takes an oath to uphold the laws and the constitution.

Since this couples right to marry is constitutionally protected, he broke the law by refusing to uphold the constitution based on his personal convictions.

Well, if that is the case, then he certainly deserves to be punished.