Interesting -- diplomats want Bush voted out

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by Van Helsing
How do you know it won't ???

Please don't answer a question with a question. Do you have an answer or not?

 

[Nancy]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
You and Steve do bring up good points.

Well everything is on a sliding scale in my book. I was for the war in the beginning. Now that a lot of the news programs have shed light on how botched everything has been, I'm against it. Especially since we went to war under false pretenses. No WMD's were found.

If you don't listen to the news how will you know how things have changed? What is new? Especially with the hearings now? Is what you are basing your opinion on, things that happenned in the past? How do you stay current, or informed then?

I watch the news. I read the papers. I stay informed. I'm just saying I won't let someone on TV influence my decision making. So if someone was a supporter of GB in the beginning of the war and then changed his stance I won't let that cloud my decision making. I can make up my own mind. (and I do go back and forth on this subject alot)

Don't even get me started on the hearings.. I've been watching them and I don't feel like they were a neccessary thing. I already knew that somewhere along the line in the days, months or years leading up to 9/11 mistakes were made, signals were missed. Who or what group made the mistakes doesn't matter to me, I just hope we as a country learned from them so this never happens again.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by Van Helsing
Great plan G Bush has - what is it again 5 points or something like that.

I'll take 5 points or something like that any day over your plan to cut and run (a la surrender). Are you sure you're not of French descent?

 

[Van Helsing]

Please don't answer a question with a question.

Why not - its a valid point

we have been trying different things

Like what ??? - beat the prisoners for info - bomb innocent people - offer big money rewards - sending more troops. Is that what you mean by trying different things.

 

[PoohnPglet]

Hi! I am new and I hope you do not mind my two cents here.

I would never want you on a sports team of mine, whether it be half time or the seventh inning stretch..it's quite obvious that if your team was losing you would take your ball and go home...rather than giving 100% and staying 'till the game was over....

In this case, yes, we should take our ball and go home because we are not even playing the same game. We are taking apples and expecting them to become oranges.

I do not think full consideration is being given to the fact that the Iraqi’s are Muslim, the majority Shiite Muslims. This is a very conservative, authoritarian and anti-secular group.

Their beef with us is not Bush alone, but our democracy itself. We may consider ourselves to be a Christian, conservative country, but really folks, if we even tried to legislate <i><b>half</i></b> of the biblical laws, there would be a furious uproar. Muslims live by their Koran and see our ways as demoralizing and corrupting their religion.

We can hand pick leaders and support them with all the troops, funds etc… we want, but we are deluding ourselves if we think that this Muslim country (or any other) is going to provide us with a democratic base in the Middle East. (And no this is not muslim bashing, I respect that they are able to adhere so strictly to their beliefs.)

We should always be able to walk away from a fight that cannot be won.

Okay, my two cents.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by wvrevy
But to do so correctly, make sure you vote Kerry in November

Well, if that happens at least we can take comfort in having someone in the White House that can speak first hand about POW abuses and committing atrocties.

BTW... has anyone been able to run across Kerry's coalition of unnamed former leaders in support of him?

 

[dmadman43]

We should always be able to walk away from a fight that cannot be won.

You mean like Vietnam? We saw how successful that decision was. Just ask the Cambodians. Wait! Millions of them were killed as a result. Darn!

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by dmadman43
Well, if that happens at least we can take comfort in having someone in the White House that can speak first hand about POW abuses and committing atrocties.

BTW... has anyone been able to run across Kerry's coalition of unnamed former leaders in support of him?

Yeah...It's a shame that Shrub can't show how he kept all of HIS medals in pristine condition since his days in 'Nam, huh ?

 

[jrydberg]

BTW... has anyone been able to run across Kerry's coalition of unnamed former leaders in support of him?

Saddam Hussein?

It's a JOKE! Just kidding!

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by PoohnPglet
Hi! I am new and I hope you do not mind my two cents here.



In this case, yes, we should take our ball and go home because we are not even playing the same game. We are taking apples and expecting them to become oranges.



We should always be able to walk away from a fight that cannot be won.

Okay, my two cents.

the fight can be won, and polls have shown that the Iraqi people want our help and have no problem with our democracy.....

it is the lunatic fringe/Al Quaida/Taliban...etc that think we are evil...at the same time they kill their own people...

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by Van Helsing
Why not - its a valid point



Like what ??? - beat the prisoners for info - bomb innocent people - offer big money rewards - sending more troops. Is that what you mean by trying different things.

watch all the news , rather than picking out the small percentage that suits your needs... sending more troops isn't a bad thing if that's what it takes to get the job done...

there is a lot of positive happening in Iraq, but since people expecte sensationalism and negative journalism. we don't hear about it.... talk to the troops over there about the families and children they have helped,, the good far outweighs the bad...

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Yeah...It's a shame that Shrub can't show how he kept all of HIS medals in pristine condition since his days in 'Nam, huh ?

and Kerry was such the professional soldier that he doesn't even know the difference between ribbons and medals.....

Kerry played up minor injuries to get sent home....the soldiers who served with him have spoken of his true behavior, it seems funny that none of them remember his tour of duty the way he tells it...

 

[disneydad2]

Although I have not kept up to date on all the atrocities at the prison in Iraq, I do hear alot about the humiliation of prisoners, and the sleep deprivation that occured in the hopes of extracting information. And from what I recall, the sleep deprivation was 20 hours a day for 3 days!!! Oh my. If these are considered as some of those atrocities, please put me first in line if I'm ever in a prison and they want to 'torture' me for information.

BTW: I just checked my sleep deprivation schedule from the past three days:
Tuesday - 19 hours, Wed.- 21 hours, Thurs - 21 hours. Ok, Ok, I'll tell you anything you want!! Just let me put my clothes back on.

 

[Van Helsing]

Although I have not kept up to date on all the atrocities at the prison in Iraq, I do hear alot about the humiliation of prisoners, and the sleep deprivation that occured in the hopes of extracting information. And from what I recall, the sleep deprivation was 20 hours a day for 3 days!!! Oh my. If these are considered as some of those atrocities, please put me first in line if I'm ever in a prison and they want to 'torture' me for information.

Are you for real????


sleep deprivation - i suppose you could it that - beating someone or having dogs attack them- i guess that would keep you awake



Guess you were right in one thing, you haven't kept up with events in Iraq

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by Van Helsing
Are you for real????


sleep deprivation - i suppose you could it that - beating someone or having dogs attack them- i guess that would keep you awake



Guess you were right in one thing, you haven't kept up with events in Iraq

I couldn't help notice that anyone with differing view points from yours...

Isn't for real

 

[Arabella Figg 2003]

going back to the original point of this thred, I found this article interesting:



See http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=alMjDzShgJkQ&refer=us

June 18 (Bloomberg) -- The statement by 27 former diplomats and military officers on Wednesday calling for the defeat of U.S. President George W. Bush may be unprecedented.

``Their prominence and seniority and influence when in their diplomatic or military posts, and their number, is really remarkable,'' said Richard Kohn, the Pentagon's chief Air Force historian from 1981-1991 and chairman of the University of North Carolina's peace, war and defense curriculum in Chapel Hill.

The group, which includes Democrats and Republicans, said Bush's foreign policy and the war in Iraq have damaged U.S. security. Its statement may sway voters already concerned by reports of abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers and the conclusion by a bipartisan commission that Saddam Hussein had no connection to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

The investigative commission, appointed by the president, found no evidence that Hussein's regime worked with the al-Qaeda terrorist organization to plan the attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington. Bush, 57, responded that Hussein and al-Qaeda had ``numerous contacts'' outside of the attacks that justified the U.S. war in Iraq.

``Bush's credibility has been damaged by Iraq,'' said Greg Valliere, chief political strategist at Schwab Soundview Capital Markets in Washington. Democratic presidential candidate and Massachusetts Senator John Kerry ``has greater potential to get traction on issues like this,'' Valliere said.

 

[Van Helsing]

the fight can be won, and polls have shown that the Iraqi people want our help and have no problem with our democracy.....

So are you going to beat everyone into your way of thinking ?

As for polls - i think your mixed up THEY WANT THE US OUT

 

[jennyanydots]

What I see happening in Iraq is something along the lines of "thank you for taking out Saddam, now go home!" We're not really wanted there anymore.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Yeah...It's a shame that Shrub can't show how he kept all of HIS medals in pristine condition since his days in 'Nam, huh ?

What is the point of Kerry harping on his Vietnam service, really? Look, I think its great he served, just like I think it's great Bush served in the Air National Guard. Unlike some, I refuse to denegrate the service of anyone that volunteers, no matter what branch of the service. But, it's Kerry that continues to answer a question nobody is asking. Like I've said in the past, so Kerry served in Vietnam. So did Ho Chi Mihn. What's your point?

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by Van Helsing
Why not - its a valid point

Again, I asked you first. So please do me the courtesy of answering. If fine if your answer is "I don't know". It won't affect your credibilty.