Interesting Chat with DVC Executive Office yesterday

[Sammie]

I agree with Brian, I think you just got a preview of what some of the tiers will be.

 

[lodgelady]

Interesting, it would be nice to see some perks added instead of taken away!

It does feel like that to me too!
When we are all looking around for places in our bugets to cut, that DVC payment can seem extravagant. I'm guessing that is why there are so many resales out there. It must be hurting Disney's sales.
Extra perks would give a way to help justify DVC owner's expenses, and balance them out a bit.
Perks could also help DVC make sense to the very practical value-minded customer (Why is DVC better than staying at All Stars?)
Hope this happens in time for our next visit!

 

[WDWMom]

I don't believe that's true and will not be in the future. Dues have to be used to pay for the operation of the resort. I don't think legally dues could pay for discounted tickets.

I don't believe it is true either. I was being a bit snarky because so many people here on the DIS are AP holders and the poster I quoted referred to our dues paying for food and ticket discounts. Bolded below is the poster quote.

Why do people think members dues should be used to subsidize dining for some members?

Same with the tiered benefits. Is it really fair to have the dues paid by all members be used to subsidize some benefits, such as theme park discounts, for members who own a lot of points?

 

[stopher1]

I wouldn't mind seeing the current AP deal left alone, but with a modification that you can bill it monthly. I would love to split out the cost of AP's over 12 months rather then dropping $2,000 all at once.

If dues can be paid annually or monthly, why can't park tickets?

DL started doing that over year or two ago, and I believe I saw something recently about that at WDW too when I was there in February (having an active Premier Pass with several months remaining I wasn't truly paying attention though) ... the catch was/is you have to be an in-state resident. I know at DL you have to pay at least a full day price to secure it, and then pay whatever over the remaining months of the pass, not sure if they add any surcharges or interest though for the ability to stretch out the payments. I agree though, it would be nice though if they opened that up to those living outside CA and FL.

 

[arthur06]

DL started doing that over year or two ago, and I believe I saw something recently about that at WDW too when I was there in February (having an active Premier Pass with several months remaining I wasn't truly paying attention though) ... the catch was/is you have to be an in-state resident. I know at DL you have to pay at least a full day price to secure it, and then pay whatever over the remaining months of the pass, not sure if they add any surcharges or interest though for the ability to stretch out the payments. I agree though, it would be nice though if they opened that up to those living outside CA and FL.

There are a lot of DVC Members who spend more days at the parks then CA or FL residents. If they can do it for them, then surely they have the technology to do it for DVC Members.

I think US/IOA does something like this too, not sure if its for residents only.

 

[stopher1]

There are a lot of DVC Members who spend more days at the parks then CA or FL residents. If they can do it for them, then surely they have the technology to do it for DVC Members.

I think US/IOA does something like this too, not sure if its for residents only.

I know it. I wish they would do something like this for DVC folk... that large chunk of cash at one time isn't the most exciting thing when you need to buy multiple AP's at once, that's for sure.

 

[Brian Noble]

The multi day tickets - what is in it for Disney?

The new MYW ticket structure goes hand in hand with DDP and with Magical Express. They are designed to capture every available minute of your vacation time (and dollar of your vacation money), rather than letting some "leak" to the Orlando-area competition. Notice that the first three or so days are at about full price---I'm guessing that the data tells Mickey that that was the average number of park days people would go in a given trip on their own without a pricing incentive. By making extra days very inexpensive, most guests figure they'll just add a few extra days at Disney rather than pay full price at Universal or Sea World.

It will be interesting to see what happens now that Harry Potter has tipped the balance again. For now, Disney's public statements (effectively: a rising tide lifts all boats) suggest they will stand pat.

Our initial purchase by have been made once, but each time we go into the parks or spend money at WDW is an individual purchase. I'm a loyal user of my DVC, but am not a loyal spender at the parks. I have the free choice to spend money at the parks or not....Option three: Vacation in my DVC and not go into the parks. Been there, done that.

I'm going to guess that DVC members are *much* "stickier" than the average guests in terms of returning to the parks. If they are using their membership at DVC resorts, the lodging is already covered, reducing the perceived costs of the trip. Remember, it doesn't really matter what individual people do. What matters is what *most* people do.

Not that we have ever left property during our stays, but many other have.

Well, that's telling. It's not like Disney *lost* your business, as there was no business to lose. As for the folks who do leave---Disney already discounts the "fourth day" (as I mentioned above) *and* for DVCers discounts the "second trip" via the DVC AP. Some folks will still decide to go elsewhere for variety. That's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

But, most folks who decide they've "had enough" of the parks (and I know a few) generally *sell* their DVC Membership and buy something else in Orlando or elsewhere. The non-Disney timeshares are astronomically less expensive to purchase, are usually less expensive to own year-over-year, and have resorts and units that are just as nice, and in many cases nicer. It's a better deal all around. But, that gets us back to Option Two.

Edited to add: I would not be too surprised to see TIW made available to DCV Members eventually. It's a classic upsell disguised as a discount, and that's right in line with the other discounts Disney offers. When I have it, I am "saving" money, but when I don't have it, I might re-think that extra sit-down meal that we don't really need.

 

[honeymo78]

I hope the part about platinum and premium availability - even without a discount - comes true. While not something I would do on every trip or even every year, they are a great deal us and we have always come up way ahead. I miss all the tours and water sports we used to do before DVC. We just can't justify paying for much more than 1 per trip since its not part of a package.

 

[snackyx]

Park pass discounts and TIW! If I remember correctly, I thought I read that FL residents could purchase a TIW card without having to purchase an AP. If that is correct, I don't understand why we can't buy those, too, sice we have deeded property in FL! I know it's not apples to apples, but hey, I am on the comptroller's website!!!

It's hard for a Michigan Wolverine to agree with an OSU Buckeye, but sooner or later we find common ground:

Give us the TIW card! I had one a few years ago when we purchased annual passes, and we ate many more times at Disney restaurants that usual. If we have access to the TIW card (and we typically do not buy AP's so cannot get the TIW card) WE WILL USE IT! We are already staying at Disney--make it more attractive to us to spend ALL of our money there.

 

[DVCconvert]

It's hard for a Michigan Wolverine to agree with an OSU Buckeye,

but sooner or later we find common ground

 

[snackyx]

Edited to add: I would not be too surprised to see TIW made available to DCV Members eventually. It's a classic upsell disguised as a discount, and that's right in line with the other discounts Disney offers. When I have it, I am "saving" money, but when I don't have it, I might re-think that extra sit-down meal that we don't really need.

Brian: You're thoughts are spot-on...but that's to be expected, you're from Ann Arbor.

When we had the TIW card we DID find ourselves using it more BECAUSE WE HAD IT TO USE! We reaped the 20% discount (a discount, I might add, that includes alcohol, which increased the number of bottles of wine we went through at dinner--hey, its cheaper!) and ate more often at the signature restaurants. Let me purchase the TIW card without the AP/Florida resident requirement, but as a DVC owner, and I will repeat this behavior often.

 

[TisBit]

I'm wondering if the tiered plan would frustrate and alienate future purchasers. Look at the people who buy to go every other year or once a year and don't want a lot of points. Then add those who really cannot afford Disney's minimum but buy a small contract through resale. Then add the people who bought years ago, are ready to vacation elsewhere and are on the fence about keeping or selling.
I could see each of these groups feeling like second class citizens and Disney losing their business.
People who have tons of points do it because they love Disney. They will be there perks or not.
On the other hand, if the perks were offered to anyone, sales could increase as people buy in to get the benefits.

I highly doubt that it would alienate any prospective buyers. It would be a talking point at sales floor. They would say "if you buy X number of points you get these benefits, if you buy just X number more you get this benefit.

The complaints would come from all the existing members that feel they are being excluded or told they are a lower class. If anyone looks at this at the highest level, Disney already has somewhat tiered programs in place. A normal guest that shows up and stays off site doesn't receive any discounts or certain privileges (like EMH), on site guest get a few added perks like EMH, maybe some discounts or gift cards. Florida residents get discounted hotel room offers, opportunity to buy TIW and discounted park passes. AP Holders get some of the same benefits as others, plus discounts during certain time periods or merchandise discounts, etc etc. DVC members get certain benefits/perks not offered to others like AP discounts, pool hopping, etc.

The reason why they want a tiered program is because DVC has gotten too large and they cannot support substantial perks to the full membership (per Jim Lewis at the annual meeting). A tiered program can actually allow additional perks to open up to DVC members, just not all of them. Yes, the top tier will benefit the most....but that is our society. I doubt I would be in a high level tier...maybe a second level, but I don't begrudge someone who decided to buy more points than me, they have decided to invest that money, just like the frequent flyer that got a free ticket on my flight....oh well.

 

[Lewisc]

I think that they may be considering perks like this to stimulate new sales. Since Disney has been discounting rooms heavily over the last couple of years, the reasons for purchasing DVC, have been diminished. Perhaps greater perks for members will make a difference.

I don't believe that's true and will not be in the future. Dues have to be used to pay for the operation of the resort. I don't think legally dues could pay for discounted tickets.

I don't believe it is true either. I was being a bit snarky because so many people here on the DIS are AP holders and the poster I quoted referred to our dues paying for food and ticket discounts. Bolded below is the poster quote.

Why do people think members dues should be used to subsidize dining for some members?

Same with the tiered benefits. Is it really fair to have the dues paid by all members be used to subsidize some benefits, such as theme park discounts, for members who own a lot of points?

That's my point. Dues shouldn't be used to pay for discounts. I can't think of a reason for Disney to offer significant discounts. Another poster already gave us the facts. A DVC owner is already committed. They're either going to use their points, rent (loan) them to someone else or sell them. Disney doesn't really care which they do. Actually letting someone else use them might generate new revenue.

A couple of posters mentioned something like free dining as a means to help new sales. I guess something like that could be used as an incentive. You get XX days of free dining for the first XX guests in your unit for the first YY nights of your DVC vacation.

I'm not sure why new sale incentives would be extended to existing owners.

I must be messing something. I can't see where the money would come from for new, meaningful discounts.

Now if the restaurants were empty Disney might be motivated to offer discounts to DVC members to fill the restaurants.

DVC doesn't make economic sense if a family of 4 is happy with one room in a value, or even moderate resort. Particularly if the family gets free dining or a deep discount on the room.

BLT is selling like hotcakes. Does anyone doubt the GF will sell well. Disney probably doesn't need to add perks to help sales.

 

[RescueRanger]

That's my point. Dues shouldn't be used to pay for discounts. I can't think of a reason for Disney to offer significant discounts. Another poster already gave us the facts. A DVC owner is already committed. They're either going to use their points, rent (loan) them to someone else or sell them. Disney doesn't really care which they do. Actually letting someone else use them might generate new revenue.

A couple of posters mentioned something like free dining as a means to help new sales. I guess something like that could be used as an incentive. You get XX days of free dining for the first XX guests in your unit for the first YY nights of your DVC vacation.

I'm not sure why new sale incentives would be extended to existing owners.

I must be messing something. I can't see where the money would come from for new, meaningful discounts.

Now if the restaurants were empty Disney might be motivated to offer discounts to DVC members to fill the restaurants.

DVC doesn't make economic sense if a family of 4 is happy with one room in a value, or even moderate resort. Particularly if the family gets free dining or a deep discount on the room.

BLT is selling like hotcakes. Does anyone doubt the GF will sell well. Disney probably doesn't need to add perks to help sales.

I think you are missing something. I think what we are seeing are perks for a new tiered system. Disney does already have us, but if we could get extra perks for a small add-on to bring us to the next "tier", then Disney has now got us to buy additional points that we probably would not have otherwise. If Disney can get just a small percentage of the current members to do this, it will translate into a large amount of new points sold.

 

[WDWMom]

The new MYW ticket structure goes hand in hand with DDP and with Magical Express. They are designed to capture every available minute of your vacation time (and dollar of your vacation money), rather than letting some "leak" to the Orlando-area competition. Notice that the first three or so days are at about full price---I'm guessing that the data tells Mickey that that was the average number of park days people would go in a given trip on their own without a pricing incentive. By making extra days very inexpensive, most guests figure they'll just add a few extra days at Disney rather than pay full price at Universal or Sea World.

I disgree with the bolded part above. A guest can buy any number of days they want on a pass. If I am staying 10 days, I don't have to buy a 10 day ticket. I can buy a 4 day ticket and still go elsewhere. Or I can buy a 10 ticket along with no expiration and use that ticket for 3-4 years plus go elsewhere (IOA,SW) or just hang out at my resort and give no one my $$$. Our family buys 10 tickets w/o expiration and they last 4 years/trips. We have never been held captive because of anything especially tickets.

It will be interesting to see what happens now that Harry Potter has tipped the balance again. For now, Disney's public statements (effectively: a rising tide lifts all boats) suggest they will stand pat.

I'm going to guess that DVC members are *much* "stickier" than the average guests in terms of returning to the parks. If they are using their membership at DVC resorts, the lodging is already covered, reducing the perceived costs of the trip. Remember, it doesn't really matter what individual people do. What matters is what *most* people do.

Not sure what you mean by "stickier" or perceived costs??? I know what our costs are. Our villa is paid for (no mortgage, but we do pay our dues), airfare if we need it (but we don't this trip because we took bumps last year and are using that FREE money), and food from the grocery store plus a little for the few times we eat in the parks on the days we do go in. My DB and DSIL are driving down and will allow us to use their car for groceries so no rental. So really, the only costs we have is groceries, park meals (again which is 1 meal for 3 days times 4 people) and tip money for the people handling our bags. We don't buy souvies so that isn't a cost either. We also have tickets with plenty of days on them so that cost was paid for 4 years ago.


Well, that's telling. It's not like Disney *lost* your business, as there was no business to lose. As for the folks who do leave---Disney already discounts the "fourth day" (as I mentioned above) *and* for DVCers discounts the "second trip" via the DVC AP. Some folks will still decide to go elsewhere for variety. That's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

For everyday I am staying at the resorts and not going into the parks or eating on WDW property they are losing my business. My business is going to the FL local grocery store for goods I can't bring on the plane with me and to my own local store for the stuff I can. So really, the lost my business when we bought our DVC and could eat in our villas and when we decided we could have a great time pool hopping and not having to go into the parks each and every day. I guess we (my family) has figured a way to have a great WDW vacation for a ton less money and we come home relaxed since we don't go commando, they boys get to do things they like and we do a variety of things. That along with lots of family time and making wonderful memories



But, most folks who decide they've "had enough" of the parks (and I know a few) generally *sell* their DVC Membership and buy something else in Orlando or elsewhere. The non-Disney timeshares are astronomically less expensive to purchase, are usually less expensive to own year-over-year, and have resorts and units that are just as nice, and in many cases nicer. It's a better deal all around. But, that gets us back to Option Two.

The bolded part above has no merit as you are basing it on the few (your words) you know. We know a lot more than a few - I counted (I actually did this) the number of people who have had enough of the parks and none of them have sold. That total was 19 families. These are people I actually know IRL, not people I have conversed with on the DIS or other boards. They do what we do, by eating in their villas, spending a few days at the parks and relaxing the rest of the time with their families. Now I am sure there are lots of people who have sold their membership because they don't want it anymore because of varying reasons. Although we know 2 families that have sold their DVC, neither has gone to buy another timeshare in Orlando or anywhere else.
Edited to add: I would not be too surprised to see TIW made available to DCV Members eventually. It's a classic upsell disguised as a discount, and that's right in line with the other discounts Disney offers. When I have it, I am "saving" money, but when I don't have it, I might re-think that extra sit-down meal that we don't really need.

I do have to say I am very curious as to why you are so interested the happening of the DVC threads when you are not even a member. Many of your posts are argumentative towards some posters and since you have no vested interest it seems odd to me. But maybe it's just me.

 

[WDWMom]

That's my point. Dues shouldn't be used to pay for discounts. I can't think of a reason for Disney to offer significant discounts. Another poster already gave us the facts. A DVC owner is already committed. They're either going to use their points, rent (loan) them to someone else or sell them. Disney doesn't really care which they do. Actually letting someone else use them might generate new revenue.

Disney probably doesn't need to add perks to help sales.

I disagree with you. I think Disney cares what we do, especially if we are using our points and not going into the parks. That's why they offer a DVC AP discount. All the people we know IRL use their points themselves. They are not renting them out and generating any new revenue. Now several people have posted here that they buy AP's so when they bring guests, they can go into the parks as they wish (the owners that is). If Disney didn't offer the discount, I wonder how many people would do this.

With free dining and pin codes for rooms, I think DVC does need some perks to help sales. There have always been perks in some way or another that DVC has been able to use to get people to buy. Now some don't need perks. We didn't; just knowing we were buying the next 42 years of vacations with 1998 dollars was enough for us.

 

[WDWMom]

I had a nice conversation yesterday with a CM from the DVC Executive Office. He had called me about an email that I sent to MS wanting to know why DVC members weren't allowed to book the Premium Dining Plan. He told me about several new perks for DVC members that were being discussed in the office. Please take with a grain of salt - but I thought they were all great ideas!

1) DVC members may be allowed to book the Premium and Platinum Dining plans at a reduced rate.
2) DVC members may get to book the regular dining plans at a reduced rate to make up for the free dining deals given to non-DVC members.
3) Discounts on regular park tickets since not all DVC members take advantage of the AP discount.
4) Tiered benefits being discussed - he would not offer any specifics on this, only said it was actively being discussed. He said he might be subject to bodily harm if any info got out.

I agree with Brian, I think you just got a preview of what some of the tiers will be.

Well, if you read #4, you would notice the CM said he couldn't discuss the tiered benefits being discussed within DVC. So if the CM couldn't do that, I doubt he would have discussed #1-3 with the OP.

So I think you and Brian are incorrect in your thinking.

 

[bookwormde]

I have always been surprised that TIW was not available to DVC members.

Disney has a lot of latitude with tiered benefits that they offer without cost to DVC (incentive provided by Disney Co or DVD), for those that members' dues contribute to (provided by DVC), they are bound by it being in the best interest of the majority of members.

bookwormde

 

[ToddyLu]

DH and I are in our 40's, we vacation at WDW every year and are now DVC members with 210 points. I could see us buying several more points to get into a certain tier--but it would have to be guaranteed for a certain amount of time for the life of the contract.

Currently we have APs which we will make three trips on--on purpose. We also purchased the TIW card at the same time we got the APs.

We are at the point now in our "WDW life" to know how to make the amenities work for us. For instance more time at the pool, less time at the park. We go more for the sit down meals and buy few souvenirs now days. So our food purchases would be a great way to hook us into more points or into a tier.

 

[Brian Noble]

We have never been held captive because of anything especially tickets.

I think you are mis-understanding what I mean here by "captive". Captive doesn't mean "without choice". It's more of a sense of capitalizing on convenience. For example, theme park patrons are usually considered "captive" from the point of view of food pricing. That doesn't mean that they can't leave to eat elsewhere and come back, and many people do. But, it is much less convenient to do so. And so, some people will pay more to eat in the park rather than leave even though it is cheaper. This is what makes it possible for Disney to charge $3 for a glass of soda.

Interestingly, the prices at Disneyland are *more* lopsided than they are at WDW, even though it is much easier for guests to leave Disneyland to eat than it is to leave WDW. I'm not sure exactly what that is; my guess is that they have to resort to gouging the guests worried about convenience even more, because fewer of them stay.

Related to that is the observation that if guests plan their trips in advance, they tend to plan to do more than they actually do when they get there---they are more likely to drop things from the plan than add them. So, Disney wants you to pre-purchase as much as possible.

The various components of "the 2005 plan"---MYW, DDP, and ME---are all designed to feed these two observations. MYW was a big departure from the old PH/PHP ticketing scheme. Essentially, after about three or four days, each additional day is nearly "free". That encourages guests to spend their entire week at WDW, rather than five days at WDW and a day or two at Universal. Likewise, by making it sound like a pre-purchased meal plan is a "good deal", Disney is trying to lock you in to eating at their restaurants. And, judging by the uptake rate of the dining plan, it has worked well, even though now it's rarely much of a discount for most people. Finally, by providing "free" transportation (discouraging you from having your own), Disney is angling to make it even less convenient for you to leave "the bubble", and to capture as much of your vacation as possible.

Here's an article that provides some more insight into these and related questions. It is from the old Parkhopper/Parkhopper Plus days, and there have been a few changes since then, but it gives you an idea of the business considerations behind some of these issues:
http://www.laughingplace.com/news-id507040.asp

Not sure what you mean by "stickier" or perceived costs???

"Stickiness" is a marketing term. It refers to the resistance that customers have to switching brands or providers. It's similar to brand loyalty, but it's not a positive association so much as inertia or resistance to change. For example, most people who are out of contract on their cell phone providers don't switch, because switching takes effort, even though it would be cheaper to switch.

In this context, I'm just using it as a measure of how likely it is that someone visiting a WDW theme park this year will come back next year. My hypothesis is that DVC Members are more likely to return to the parks than are Resort Guests---therefore, DVC Members have more "stickiness". That's a big win for Disney, because they spend a lot of money on marketing to the casual guest convincing them to come back. They don't need to spend nearly as much on DVC Members, because in some sense they are already committed.

Perceived costs are what a vacation "looks like" it cost, vs. what it really cost. To a first approximation, it's the credit card bill you get at the end of the month after your trip, though some other big-ticket pre-purchased items would probably get folded in as well (e.g. airfare). Naturally, that's a subset of the total trip cost, but it's the one that people think about as "the cost". This isn't a rational valuation, but as the social scientists are quick to point out people are not often rational. You might know down to the penny what a trip costs you, including e.g. DVC purchase price amortized on a per-point basis, etc. I certainly know what mine cost. But, most people are not so careful.

Anyway, the smaller that bill is, the better it is for Disney, because if it "feels like" the trip is less expensive, it is easier for people to splurge on their trips. DVC Members have a big advantage to Disney here---their lodging bill is ZERO when they check out, and that reduces perceived trip cost. Some Members might think about the Dues that back those points, but that still leads to a very low "lodging cost". Almost no one correctly accounts for how the DVC purchase cost accrues to each vacation---and even the Guides usually get it wrong (naturally, it is wrong in Disney's favor). Those factors lead to (irrational) over-spending in other areas.

I do have to say I am very curious as to why you are so interested the happening of the DVC threads when you are not even a member. Many of your posts are argumentative towards some posters and since you have no vested interest it seems odd to me. But maybe it's just me.

In part I'm fascinated by the business side of the theme park industry, and have been for over a decade. I'm particularly interested in that rational-vs-emotional component I alluded to above, and Disney is a wonderful case study at exploiting that divide. Disney is the undisputed champion at creating environments that encourage you to throw money at them. Though after visiting the Potterverse, my wife tells me that Universal is narrowing the gap. I'm told that the biggest problem Universal has with Potter is being able to restock the shelves between park close and park open in time, because they move so much merchandise.

I'm also become a bit of a hobbyist when it comes to timeshares, starting about five years ago. I keep tabs on DVC specifically because I exchange in using my (non-Disney) timeshares, and I often revisit the question of whether or not it would be cost-effective for me to purchase. So far, the answer is still "no". I have stayed in several non-Disney Orlando-area timeshares, as well as another bunch in other parts of the US.

I don't view reasonable disagreement as being "argumentative", though I admit I find it curious when folks don't fully accept that Disney is first, last, and always a for-profit company, even though what they are selling is, loosely, "happiness". And, if you follow the money, you get a pretty definitive answer for many of the "debates" that happen around here. Unfortunately, that's not often an answer that bestows favors on current owners, because of the economics of the situation. I suppose that does make me look like Mean Guy when I point it out.

So I think you and Brian are incorrect in your thinking.

Well, for the record it was Carnac the Magnificent who made that prediction. But, I do think he is right.