Inspired by the polygamist thread - How many kids are acceptable

[chobie]

You and I agree completely on this - I woudn't dream of limiting my daughters to the Duggar viewpoint - it's completey foreign to my outlook on life. And my daughters wouldn't put up with it for five minutes, so God help the Duggar boys if they ever cross my girls!!!!!

chobie, your characterization of Amish youth "going wild" made me laugh. Wish I could see that on DVD - bet it would make "Girls Gone Wild" seem tame!!!! I don't think Amish kids really go that wild - maybe they just try the life the rest of us take for granted, before deciding whether or not to embrace the Amish way of life permanently. Maybe they do go wild, though- where's a 20/20 expose when you need one??

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ll_1/002-4178686-8620016?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130

It's called "The Devil's Playground".

 

[DVCLiz]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ll_1/002-4178686-8620016?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130

It's called "The Devil's Playground".

Well, I'll be damned!! There WAS an expose!!!!

Somehow, and I'm going out on a limb here, I think they might just possibly have focused on the youth who fit into these categories - sexually active, drinkers, smokers, drug addicts - instead of what I think would be the majority of Amish teens - church-goers, hard workers, drug, tobacco and alcohol free. Again, I'm just guessing here....

And this is getting silly, so I'm off to fix dinner in time to watch the new Duggar show. Hmmm, on the other hand, why not just keep sitting in front of the computer and make the children fix dinner for me????

 

[chobie]

Well, I'll be damned!! There WAS an expose!!!!

Somehow, and I'm going out on a limb here, I think they might just possibly have focused on the youth who fit into these categories - sexually active, drinkers, smokers, drug addicts - instead of what I think would be the majority of Amish teens - church-goers, hard workers, drug, tobacco and alcohol free. Again, I'm just guessing here....

And this is getting silly, so I'm off to fix dinner in time to watch the new Duggar show. Hmmm, on the other hand, why not just keep sitting in front of the computer and make the children fix dinner for me????

Great idea! Hey get them to sew you new dress while they're at.

And you are guessing at a lot of things. You have no idea how many Amish kids do this. I bet you didn't realize there were some 200,000 Amish in the US either.

 

[mommapoppins]

Training?? I am baffled by this statement.

Whether you like it or not, the things you teach your child in their life is training for the future. I don't understand what is so baffling about this statement.

As far as the Duggars I am concerned about the children, they are home schooled, attend church in the home, and do not watch tv, mom constantly has children and the girls are cooking and the boys are building, I would be curious to hear what these girls want to do with their lives. Does any one of those girls want to be a minister, lawyer, doctor, tennis player, teacher or writer?

I think you should allow the people that matter in their lives to worry about those kids. If anyone was worried that they were being harmed I am sure that CPS would investigate. It doesn't seem as if they are trying to hide anything.

That being said, I wouldn't doubt if those girls DO have aspirations to do something in their lives. Just because they are home-schooled does not mean that they are completely isolated from the outside world. They may not have a TV, but considering the fact that the father is in politics I am sure that they are aware of current events. No one would vote for someone who was ignorant of the issues of the day.

I know personally a family that has 14 children (at last count) and the oldest one went to college with me!!!! <Sarcastically>Amazing, huh? Poor isolated home-schooled kid doesn't have a chance in life!

BTW, in the interest of full disclosure, I was homeschooled for 8 years. I went to college for Business Management and Accounting, and had a 3.8 GPA the whole 5 yrs. I was there, and now own a small business. I am also a very outgoing person who has never had any problem being social. (Which is an oft mentioned reason not to home-school... What about socialization.)

 

[DVCLiz]

Quite honestly, I think 200,000 is also an extremely small number, too - not as small as the Duggar community and their brethren, but a small and narrow group in American society nevertheless. I'd be interested to see the actual statistics about how many kids really do go "wild." BTW, I don't condone that practice, either. I'm all for equipping children for the real world, because I want mine to go out in it. But the Duggars don't. Whether you and I agree on anything else, we'll have to concede that for the Duggars, as Mrs. Pete said, their life is the one true way they believe God intends for them to live. It's certainly not my choice, and it's not anyone else's on this thread, either, but it is theirs. I guess we'll see at 9:00 whether the children can answer some of these questions for us!!!

 

[Freyja]

Great point!!!

 

[Robindianne]

Even though I am sure the OP didn't mean to open this can of worms, any of us stating how many children a person/couple should have brings to mind the days when women's "job" was to have children, and more and more. Then along comes the women's movement and it was decided (by some who misunderstood the point of the movement) that her job was to work and not have kids, or at least not so many.

One point of responsible adulthood is to make the decision of whether/when/how many kids to have. I have to hope and trust adults will make the best decisions they can with the information they have, and let it go at that. (not that I don't catch myself having thoughts one way or the other though).

If we say a family should have only certain number of children, how is that different from saying they (mom) should have an abortion? Or can't have an abortion? Or they should have at least 2 kids cause 1 alone isn't good? Or . . . the ramifications are endless. Good thing we have the right to choose how many children we will have based on our own educated good judgement. At least for now. At least in some states.

 

[Freyja]

Even though I am sure the OP didn't mean to open this can of worms, any of us stating how many children a person/couple should have brings to mind the days when women's "job" was to have children, and more and more. Then along comes the women's movement and it was decided (by some who misunderstood the point of the movement) that her job was to work and not have kids, or at least not so many.

One point of responsible adulthood is to make the decision of whether/when/how many kids to have. I have to hope and trust adults will make the best decisions they can with the information they have, and let it go at that. (not that I don't catch myself having thoughts one way or the other though).

If we say a family should have only certain number of children, how is that different from saying they (mom) should have an abortion? Or can't have an abortion? Or they should have at least 2 kids cause 1 alone isn't good? Or . . . the ramifications are endless. Good thing we have the right to choose how many children we will have based on our own educated good judgement. At least for now. At least in some states.

You´re abosloutly right. I had no idea we´d go HERE. But I do find the twist very intersting though. I had never heard about the Duggars so I did some googling but don´t have an opinion about that family, since I don´t know them at all.

 

[chobie]

Even though I am sure the OP didn't mean to open this can of worms, any of us stating how many children a person/couple should have brings to mind the days when women's "job" was to have children, and more and more. Then along comes the women's movement and it was decided (by some who misunderstood the point of the movement) that her job was to work and not have kids, or at least not so many.

One point of responsible adulthood is to make the decision of whether/when/how many kids to have. I have to hope and trust adults will make the best decisions they can with the information they have, and let it go at that. (not that I don't catch myself having thoughts one way or the other though).

If we say a family should have only certain number of children, how is that different from saying they (mom) should have an abortion? Or can't have an abortion? Or they should have at least 2 kids cause 1 alone isn't good? Or . . . the ramifications are endless. Good thing we have the right to choose how many children we will have based on our own educated good judgement. At least for now. At least in some states.

yes, we do have the right to choose and no one has yet to suggest that we pass a law to limit family size have they?

But this family chose to sell themselves on TV and put themselves out there for public comment --which they have recieved.

 

[chobie]

Quite honestly, I think 200,000 is also an extremely small number, too - not as small as the Duggar community and their brethren, but a small and narrow group in American society nevertheless. I'd be interested to see the actual statistics about how many kids really do go "wild." BTW, I don't condone that practice, either. I'm all for equipping children for the real world, because I want mine to go out in it. But the Duggars don't. Whether you and I agree on anything else, we'll have to concede that for the Duggars, as Mrs. Pete said, their life is the one true way they believe God intends for them to live. It's certainly not my choice, and it's not anyone else's on this thread, either, but it is theirs. I guess we'll see at 9:00 whether the children can answer some of these questions for us!!!

I don't believe this is all about God when they sell their life to a TV network. They are using the kids to make money just as they used the kids to try, unsuccessfully to get Jim Duggar elected to the Senate. God has nothing to do with that.

And there is a big difference between an Amish community with thousands of other Amish and a few quiverfull families that meet a few times a year.

 

[Planogirl]

It's great that the Amish allow their kids to experience life without repercussions as they do. I think it's healthy to be aware of the world.

The Duggars are another matter. The kids have been so sheltered that I wonder how the boys will react if and when they go to college. (I'm assuming that the girls won't be allowed to go.) How will they deal with so much freedom and so many strange things they've never seen before?

As for size of families, I agree that it's no one else's business. However, someday the earth will have to deal with the overpopulation that is inevitable. I fully agree that nature will in some way deal with it and it won't be pretty.

 

[mommapoppins]

I don't believe this is all about God when they sell their life to a TV network. They are using the kids to make money just as they used the kids to try, unsuccessfully to get Jim Duggar elected to the Senate. God has nothing to do with that.

And there is a big difference between an Amish community with thousands of other Amish and a few quiverfull families that meet a few times a year.

You have no right to say WHY they allowed TLC and other networks to come and record their family. No one other than them can tell what their true motivations are. I have no idea how much they are paid for their time but I would venture to guess it is not nearly enough to support a family of almost 20 people. My guess is they are trying to show people like you that they are really normal HUMAN BEINGS who have chosen not to put a limit on how many children God gives them because they had a misscarriage while on birth control.

And those kids have had many experiences that most children have not... Meeting the governor, being on TV, seeing a ultrasound, and many others I'm sure. On their website Michelle talks about the children's freinds so obviously they have friends.

 

[MrsKreamer]

It's great that the Amish allow their kids to experience life without repercussions as they do. I think it's healthy to be aware of the world.

The Duggars are another matter. The kids have been so sheltered that I wonder how the boys will react if and when they go to college. (I'm assuming that the girls won't be allowed to go.) How will they deal with so much freedom and so many strange things they've never seen before?

As for size of families, I agree that it's no one else's business. However, someday the earth will have to deal with the overpopulation that is inevitable. I fully agree that nature will in some way deal with it and it won't be pretty.

Why do you assume the girls won't be allowed to go to college? They have never said that, nor does it show through their actions, at least from what I have seen.

 

[Laura]

I think we have a responsiblity to the people that already exist, not the ones that might or could exist. So, no I don't think we would have a responsibility to each other to populate the earth, but I do think we have a responsiblity to each other to not overpopulate it.

In a nutshell, I agree. I do wonder at people who have many children (like 4+), but I know people love their children and I can't really criticize parents for wanting more love in their lives. As for the Duggars, they aren't a normal family, and I wouldn't lump all larger families in with them.

I feel a great responsibility to our planet NOT to produce as many children as I can support. Just because I can, doesn't mean I should.

 

[va32h]

Isn't the "exploding US population" something of a myth though? I thought our fastest-growing segment of the population was actually the elderly (75+).

So if the population is growing, it's more a factor of increased life-expectancy.

The most recent data I could find via Google showed a growth rate of .92% - less than one percent - with 14.14 average births per 1000 people, 8.25 deaths per 1000 people. I think that growth rate figure might include immigration as well.

So I don't think my three children place an undue burden on our nation's resources.

I am the fifth of five children and never lacked for attention or affection; I don't think large families are immediately synonymous with such things.

I can't comment on the Duggars, because I've never met them. But in general, it doesn't bother me that the children are expected to substantially contribute to the running of the family. A century or two ago, this was one of the reasons to have children - so they could work and contribute to the family's overall wealth.

Historically speaking, childhood is a fairly modern concept, and adolescence even more so. Our generation has expanded adolescence into the college years, so that "children" are well into their 20's before they are expected to contribute in any way to their own care and support.

Which is better for the children? It seems to me that cociety has a way of deciding that what is "best" for the children is whatever is most convenient for the adults at that moment in history.

 

[Mad4Mickey]

As many as you like as long as you can take care of them all by yourself. Dont pawn them off on others , and be able to love and care for them without the help of my tax dollars.

I have 2 and I know that I dont want anymore . I am helping my sister to raise her 2 little ones because she is alone . She gets nothing from the state at all we do it as a family and leave it at that : )

 

[Free4Life11]

The United States growth rate is very small are we aren't even CLOSE to being overpopulated. It's just not a concern. India and China are another story.

va32h - I too am one of five children and liked being in a big family! My parents love all of us kids and we all got attention growing up.

 

[FreshTressa]

A declining population is bad for the economy.....a growing population is bad for the environment.

Is there any way to win??

 

[Bravosntha2g]

As long as you aren't on public assistant have 10+ babies if you want, it's none of my business or anybody elses. I'd rather have a lot of newborn American babies in the workforce than millions of illegals that risk national security everyday.

 

[Robindianne]

Hmm. I'm one of 4 biological, 1 adopted, 5 step. I grew up and had 1. I do feel like my one child missed out on some of the stuff I got (all the sibs stuff), but he also got some of the adult attention I didn't get. Who is to say what is better. As human as I am, I confess when I saw this fam on tv for the first time I wondered. OTOH, my aunt had quints 28 years ago (after adopting 2) when the drs supposedly didn't know just how likely multiples were w/fertility pills and I know they received much hate mail re: overpopulation, anti-god, etc. In a perfect world I will live and let live, helping how I can. Until then, I wish this family the best and hope the chidren (and parents for that matter) are happy and healthy and well-loved and cared for. PS, national enquirer paid to get my multiple cousins to Disneyland so there's always the magic. Kidding but seriously they did have a DL vaca paid for in exchange for photos and an interview and I'm glad they did. 7 kids to DL would have been so costly and we here at the DIS know just how important magic is.