In-laws- Vent!!

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Do you have children? I am guessing no. I'm not trying to be rude but everyone has their perfect theories about raising a child until said child is actually here. Then all that flies out the window. Sure, 50/50 is wonderful, but that isn't always possible. I also don't think that not allowing you 11 year old to fly to someone's home that would make her sick is being overprotective. It is being smart.
I am not attacking you as I get what you are saying but it doesn't always work as you say.

I know that it doesn't always work as I say. I do believe I stated that pretty clearly in the PP. No, I don't have children quite yet but I know plenty of people who do have children and most of them are not overprotective and generally parent together as a couple. Many such folks with children have spoken up on this very thread. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation to hold nor is it a bad goal to work toward.

(I'm asking really nicely. Can this not turn into a "Those without children can't have an opinion." thread? It's been going so well so far.)

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

OMG!!!!!



Perfect post!!!!

I was gonna bow out with my last post above, but when I saw yours, I just had to chime back in....

'practice', 'theory', 'model', '50/50', etc...

I was just rolling my eyes...
but now I am laughing so hard I can't breathe!!!

There is really no need to be so rude. Merry Christmas!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I know that it doesn't always work as I say. I do believe I stated that pretty clearly in the PP. No, I don't have children quite yet but I know plenty of people who do have children and most of them are not overprotective and generally parent together as a couple. Many such folks with children have spoken up on this very thread. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation to hold nor is it a bad goal to work toward.

(I'm asking really nicely. Can this not turn into a "Those without children can't have an opinion." thread? It's been going so well so far.)

You can have an opinion. I am not saying you can't. However what you see with the people you know is only a small snippet of what actually goes on behind closed doors.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

You can have an opinion. I am not saying you can't. However what you see with the people you know is only a small snippet of what actually goes on behind closed doors.

I really don't get where this part of the conversation is going in terms of the point of the thread. I feel like we are stepping into arguing just for arguments sake and I really don't want to do that.

So, trying to put this back in context:

Are you saying that it's impossible to parent equally and that, even if appears that people are doing so, they aren't? Therefore, why bother trying? So, the OP should have every right to make all the decisions?

I really don't think that's what you're saying but, if it isn't, why are you criticizing me for suggesting that parents at least attempt to parent together as one unit? I'm going to be honest with you. That is the type of parenting that DH and I have discussed at length and hope to carry into our relationship with this new being when it begins. Right now, I feel like I'm being patronized and outrightly laughed at (by Wishing on a Star, not you) for holding tight to those values. I realize that things don't always pan out perfectly but, then again, I never said they did.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I really don't get where this part of the conversation is going in terms of the point of the thread. I feel like we are stepping into arguing just for arguments sake and I really don't want to do that.

So, trying to put this back in context:

Are you saying that it's impossible to parent equally and that, even if appears that people are doing so, they aren't? Therefore, why bother trying? So, the OP should have every right to make all the decisions?

I really don't think that's what you're saying but, if it isn't, why are you criticizing me for suggesting that parents at least attempt to parent together as one unit?

Okay, let me try to clear this up......
I am not trying to argue with you or anyone. You pointed out that parenting is 50/50 etc. Yes, in most cases it is. No nobody parents equally. No matter how much it seems that they do. No two people are exactly alike. For instance, Mom might say no cake for dinner. Okay. No big deal. Dad agrees. Mom might not be home for dinner one night and Dad decides that what the heck, let's have cake for dinner even though Mom had previously said no. It's not a huge issue. It's not even an issue. The point is that there will be many times where one parent makes the decision. Mom might even be annoyed later on when she finds out about it but no harm done. In the case of the OP, she feels very strongly about this issue. I happen to agree with her (my perrogative). Yes, parents should be a united front. However, the OP's DH is letting his family bully his wife rather than talking to her to find out what it is about the trip that she is uncomfortable with. Sorry, but if one parent is dead set against something no matter what then I do think you have to respect that. Her reasons actually are very valid. That is part of standing together. When your partner is so upset about something and completely against it and you don't respect that then no, you are not standing together. You are standing alone. The Op's DH knows how she feels about this. He continues to let his family harp on her. That is wrong.

 

[Nyla]

Maybe a bit OT, but I just wanted to comment.

I do not have any children of my own yet, but being the eldest of four, with the youngest being 10 years behind me, I realize the guts it takes to be a parent, and to raise your children the way you see fit. It is easy for outsiders to judge parenting styles, when they have no basis for judgment. With that being said, I am grateful for the 'over-protective' 'helicopter' parents. My mother was one of them, and my dad's family was -exactly- the same kind of manipulative, conniving, sneaky people the OP describes her ILs. My mother fought (and still fights!) battle after battle with my dad's older sister regarding visits, parenting styles, you name it. My aunt always had her 2 cents to throw in, such as, "it's time for Nyla to start doing chores." or "Nyla's too old to have a blanket / bottle."

When it came down to it, I was my mother's child. Not my aunt's (and thank Christmas for that!), and my mother had every right to raise me and my siblings the way she saw fit. My dad was a push-over who would yield to whatever his sister said, and my mom had no choice but to stand her ground alone. It's extremely frustrating to fight on the in-law battle ground, when you have no backing.

When it comes down to it, we all have our own share of problems, but my siblings and I are well-adjusted, intelligent people. My cousins on the other hand, are constantly in and out of therapy, one of which never graduated high school and has the reading equivalency of a third grader.

My children will be raised differently from the way my mother raised me, although I salute my mom for surviving my teenage years and doing a heck of a job. It all comes down to personal choice, and what the PARENTS feel comfortable with. Not the in-laws, not the grandparents. The parents.

To the OP, hang in there. I agree with you 200%, and I feel your pain. My future in-laws are no doubt going to be the death of me, as they already try to tell me how to take care of my fiance, not to mention my own dog!

You're doing a great job, and don't let anyone guilt you into doing something you feel uncomfortable with, especially when it comes to your kids. If your daughter turns 17 and you still aren't comfortable with her traveling alone, so be it. You have the right to say no.

 

[kkmcan]

WOW! I left for a baby shower and just got back to this huge thread.

Okay so some more background. In the past Dh didn't see a problem with our dd flying alone BUT he didn't push it with me so she never went. It was his parents who kept calling and asking. I think he doesn't like to disappoint them so he never gave them a straight answer. I've done some soul searching the last couple months and I'm trying to step up to the plate and tell them no myself since he won't.

I have never stood up to them before ever until last month. They want to take each of my kids separately overnight. While I'm not wild about that idea, I've okayed it and they've done several sleep overs. The problem with this is the kid who wasn't invited gets his/her feelings hurt. I'm the one who usually has to calm him/her down and make them feel better. Then the next sleep over comes along and we start all over again. I'm exhausted from it all. And I told MIL that this just wasn't working for us. Kids getting feelings hurt, crying about it etc. She told me she didn't intend for that to happen. I told her I knew that but unfortunately my kids were still just kids and someone always felt left out. She said we'll have to figure out something else and that was the last I heard about it for now. It will come up again, it's just a question of when.....

As for an age when I think dd will be ready well... Grandparents live here now and dd can't go to SIL's in denver because of the cats. I knew for sure at age 7 she wasn't ready and I thought maybe when she was 12 or so and now she's almost 12 and I know that she's not ready still.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Okay, let me try to clear this up......
I am not trying to argue with you or anyone. You pointed out that parenting is 50/50 etc. Yes, in most cases it is. No nobody parents equally. No matter how much it seems that they do. No two people are exactly alike.

And I absolutely agree. I don't know what I said to imply the contrary. I guess that's where I get confused about the argumentative statements directed at me. My point was that parents can at least try to parent equally. They can listen to each other and come up with decisions together. (And I'm talking about major decisions, obviously, not about what to feed kids for dinner.)

It seems that a lot of people are saying in this thread, "Screw what the father thinks! You're the mother. Shame on him for not going along with what you want."

That's what I think is wrong. So I'm not sure why I got laughed at for expressing that opionion.

It all comes down to personal choice, and what the PARENTS feel comfortable with. Not the in-laws, not the grandparents. The parents.

Absolutely! I certainly don't think that this situation is about the in-laws at all and if someone makes such issues about the in-laws, well that's just foolish. I think it's about a husband and wife disagreeing on a parenting decision. As you said above, it's what the parents (plural) feel comfortable with, not the parent (singular).

 

[Sandy V.]

Okay, let me try to clear this up......
I am not trying to argue with you or anyone. You pointed out that parenting is 50/50 etc. Yes, in most cases it is. No nobody parents equally. No matter how much it seems that they do. No two people are exactly alike. For instance, Mom might say no cake for dinner. Okay. No big deal. Dad agrees. Mom might not be home for dinner one night and Dad decides that what the heck, let's have cake for dinner even though Mom had previously said no. It's not a huge issue. It's not even an issue. The point is that there will be many times where one parent makes the decision. Mom might even be annoyed later on when she finds out about it but no harm done. In the case of the OP, she feels very strongly about this issue. I happen to agree with her (my perrogative). Yes, parents should be a united front. However, the OP's DH is letting his family bully his wife rather than talking to her to find out what it is about the trip that she is uncomfortable with. Sorry, but if one parent is dead set against something no matter what then I do think you have to respect that. Her reasons actually are very valid. That is part of standing together. When your partner is so upset about something and completely against it and you don't respect that then no, you are not standing together. You are standing alone. The Op's DH knows how she feels about this. He continues to let his family harp on her. That is wrong.

I'm late to the party, but I would like to say that I agree with this. Parenting CAN be 50/50 and in my opinion, SHOULD be so when imposing discipline and "consequences" when a child misbehaves. There are a myriad of other times when there should be joint parenting decisions made. I don't have the time to list them.

But, as the mother of two young adults (21 and 18) and happily married to someone who has been a wonderful father - quite frankly, many of the times they were growing up it WASN'T 50/50. One of us had a stronger opinion as to how something "should" be regarding a parenting issue. We talked it over and supported each other, especially if the person with the stronger opinion had rational reasons for feeling the way that they did.

I guess I've never understood anyone saying that marriage or parenting or much of anything else is 50-50. To me, it's all 70-30. Which issue do you fall in the 70% range where you REALLY feel strongly about something and the path to be taken? Which issue are you in the 30% category where it just isn't that important to you (bearing in mind you still want a result you can live with)?

I guess what I am trying to say to you, Mr & Mrs. Smith, with absolutely no animosity or patronizing intended, is that it's much easier to say that you are prepared to make your decisions equally every time as a parent - until you become a parent and then, your world changes. You start bringing forth your own opinion, try to blend it with that of your spouse, and you also use whatever "stuff" came with you in your own childhood that you wish to embrace and what you choose to reject (i.e., thoughts of "I will never do that to my kids when I'm a parent, etc."). And you also have your spouse's childhood "stuff" as well. There's a lot to throw in the mix and "equality" just doesn't always happen. The important thing is that the parents constantly work together to love and successfully raise their child(ren).

 

[Nyla]

Absolutely! I certainly don't think that this situation is about the in-laws at all and if someone makes such issues about the in-laws, well that's just foolish. I think it's about a husband and wife disagreeing on a parenting decision. As you said above, it's what the parents (plural) feel comfortable with, not the parent (singular).

I see what you're saying, and definitely understand where you're coming from. It is and should be what the parents agree on, but unfortunately in an imperfect world, it's not likely that everything will be 50/50, and in the OP's case (and in my family's) it wasn't. The OP has said (if I understood correctly, please correct me if I did not) that it's not so much her husband disagreeing with her, but moreso that he's hesitant to stand up to his family, which was the same case with my father.

In this particular case, the mother feels uncomfortable sending her child on a plane by herself, and is frightened at the thought of her daughter becoming ill because of her allergies to cats. Those are both valid and rational reasons to veto the in-laws requests, and in this case when it comes to down to fearing for your own child's safety, that parent's concerns need to be respected.

It's the same as a child crossing the street. If Mommy says it's okay for the kids to cross the street by themselves to go and visit Timmy, but Daddy expresses his fears for their safety, Daddy's concern should be respected, and Mommy should walk the children across the street.

That's just the way I see it.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

I guess what I am trying to say to you, Mr & Mrs. Smith, with absolutely no animosity or patronizing intended, is that it's much easier to say that you are prepared to make your decisions equally every time as a parent - until you become a parent and then, your world changes. You start bringing forth your own opinion, try to blend it with that of your spouse, and you also use whatever "stuff" came with you in your own childhood that you wish to embrace and what you choose to reject (i.e., thoughts of "I will never do that to my kids when I'm a parent, etc."). And you also have your spouse's childhood "stuff" as well. There's a lot to throw in the mix and "equality" just doesn't always happen. The important thing is that the parents constantly work together to love and successfully raise their child(ren).

I don't think I'm expressing myself very well on this issue because what you just said is exactly what I meant. I don't mean that every single decision that gets made is 50/50. I mean that parenting, in general, is shared. That's what I was trying to emphasize.

As you said, "The important thing is that the parents constantly work together to love and successfully raise their children." I agree. And that is the point I was trying to make.

Many of the responses here (although not the OP herself) led me to believe that people were saying that one parent should be able to make all the important decision just because they felt strongly on an issue without consideration of the other parent. That's honestly all I was commenting on. I wasn't trying to be critical of the OP's parenting style or anyone else's for that matter.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

But you could pick an age when you know for sure that it would be ok. I mean, if you wouldn't send your 16 year old, I don't care how immature you felt she was, I would think that was very overprotective. Nobody can "hold you to it". It's not like they can take legal action because you made a promise. You can always change your mind but it would be a nice gesture to at least offer something.

No, I don't think you CAN pick an age when you know anything for sure. My ILs have taken their two DDs and their families on cruises. On one cruise, a bunch of 15 year old girls celebrating one's quinceanera thought 13 yr old nephew was adorable. He called his mother from one girl's room at 3 AM (why he was out and unsupervised at 3 AM, I don't know...but I guess that's the "overprotective parent" in me) to ask if he could stay the rest of the night. My ILs thought how cute that all these girls liked him so much. This was the time she also said to me that cruises are great, because you don't even have to SEE your kids. (Personally, I LIKE "seeing" my kids when we're on a family vacation. ) And that "Oh, MaryAnn, they can't get in trouble on a cruise." When that particular nephew was about 15 and on another cruise with the family, we heard later how he and one of his cousins got drunk and puked all over their stateroom. A couple of them also jumped off an upper deck into the water, got caught by security and almost thrown off the ship. Now...do I want my ILs, who tell these stories like they're cute adorable funny family stories, in charge of my kids? Nope. At ANY age. At some point, I lose my control over what my kids will do, but I would strongly discourage my kids from vacationing with these people, ever. Not that it would be a big deal...they hardly know each other, because ILs wanted the vacations with the kids, but not want to watch them for a couple of hours here and there while I went to a Dr appt.

And yes, I do think the ILs would attempt to hold someone to a statement that "when she's 15, she can xyz"...it gives them ammunition to fire back when you decide that "15" is NOT the right age, for whatever reason. OBVIOUSLY I don't expect that they would take legal action.

And this is the part that I don't agree with. When did the mother become the more important parent? (OP, I'm not saying that this is how you see yourself. I'm simply responding to some of the assertions to this effect on this thread.) Why is the mother's say more important than the father's say? I don't get that at all. Clearly, this couple is divided and needs to come up with a solution that works for both of them. I don't think it's fair for one parent to have vito power over the other's parenting decisions.

That is really the only problem I have with the OP's situation as she has explained it. I can honestly understand where she is coming from but I can understand where her DH is coming from also.

And if there IS no solution that works for both of them? Of course, I'm sure you and your boyfriend will always come to the perfect solution.

Do you have children? I am guessing no. I'm not trying to be rude but everyone has their perfect theories about raising a child until said child is actually here. Then all that flies out the window. Sure, 50/50 is wonderful, but that isn't always possible. I also don't think that not allowing you 11 year old to fly to someone's home that would make her sick is being overprotective. It is being smart.

You can have an opinion. I am not saying you can't. However what you see with the people you know is only a small snippet of what actually goes on behind closed doors.

I don't believe that ANY relationship is literally 50/50. My DH and I are on the same page the majority of the time when it comes to child rearing, and always have been. And boy, am I grateful for that! But in every aspect of our relationship, there's some imbalance...someone's contribution is a little more, or carries more weight. We don't sit down and do everything together, like pay the bills, or make purchases of all sizes. I'm a SAHM...my decisions usually carry more weight. Like I said...we're very much on the same page with child-rearing. But, if I very strongly feel a certain way...if I'm downright adamant about it...and DH feels less strongly, then what I say goes. That doesn't mean I've never allowed my kids to do something that I'm less than totally comfortable with, or that I wouldn't say "I'm not thrilled about it, but...OK." My long-winded point is this...50/50 is more theory than reality.

 

[WDSearcher]

I have never stood up to them before ever until last month. They want to take each of my kids separately overnight. While I'm not wild about that idea, I've okayed it and they've done several sleep overs. The problem with this is the kid who wasn't invited gets his/her feelings hurt. I'm the one who usually has to calm him/her down and make them feel better. Then the next sleep over comes along and we start all over again. I'm exhausted from it all.

This just seems silly. The kids have each gotten a chance to go seperately, right? They know that first one goes, then the other goes. Why does that cause hurt feelings? I mean, the kids are old enough to understand the "it's your turn now, his turn later" concept, aren't they? Or are they just so close (or so competitive ...) that they HAVE to go EVERYWHERE together?

When I was 12, I would have KILLED for a weekend or an overnight alone with my grandparents without my pesky older sister always along! And I would have loved having my parents to myslef the weekends that older sis would be at the GPs house by herself. I would have gladly waited until her turn was over for mine. I don't understand how the kids can feel left out if they're taking turns and if the pattern of taking turns has been established. When they feel hurt, isn't the answer just, "Well, honey, you went last month, and now it's your brother's turn. Let's make popcorn!"

As for an age when I think dd will be ready well... Grandparents live here now and dd can't go to SIL's in denver because of the cats. I knew for sure at age 7 she wasn't ready and I thought maybe when she was 12 or so and now she's almost 12 and I know that she's not ready still.

I'm wondering if it would make any difference if the family members your DD was visiting were on your side of the family instead of ILs? Sometimes delivering your "not quite ready to go on her own" child into the arms of people more familiar makes it easier.

 

[disneymyway]

It seems that a lot of people are saying in this thread, "Screw what the father thinks! You're the mother. Shame on him for not going along with what you want."

That's what I think is wrong. So I'm not sure why I got laughed at for expressing that opionion.
.

If people were saying that I missed it. I think you just have to understand that 50/50 doesn't mean a perfect compromise on every single issue. It means a cooperative spirit between parents where the mother and father come together and make decisions best for their children. I think trying to come up with some perfect 50/50 compromise in every situation would be a big waste of time and energy. You will see that in some situations you will have stronger feelings and perhaps even a better perspective than your husband and sometimes he will. Compromise comes when you say, "OK, I don't completely agree with you but we'll do it your way and I'll support you", and not try to hammer out every minor thing like it's the Magna Carta.

Many, many times I would have done something differently but respected my husband's perspective and went his way instead of the way I'd originally thought was best.

 

[kkmcan]

I will add that I always back my husband in front of the kids even if I don't agree with him. Then in private I will tell him my take on it. Sometimes he agrees and sometimes he doesn't but we do present a united front to our kids.

DD knows nothing about our differences on her flying to inlaws.

BTW, I spoke with my sil today and told her that the trip won't work out. I reminded her about her cat and how it affects my dd. She knows about this because when we visited last year dd had to be on Benadryl the entire time and we did have to leave her house at one point to return to our hotel because of how uncomfortable dd felt- all puffy and itchy. Sil said she had forgotten about the cat issue. I did tell her I didn't want dd flying by herself. She couldn't say much about that other than "oh".

 

[mhsjax]

kkmcan-
I completely understand. I won't go into my story, but just know I understand. Stand firm. You have your daughter's best interest at heart. She may not know that right now, but she will in the future. It is unsafe to fly alone at her age, no matter what the airline offers (for extra payment) to "watch" her (please...).
I am proud of you for sticking up for what you believe, it's hard to do when you are facing a crowd! Stand strong.

I agree and I won't go into why either, but I do have knowledge and we will not ever let our kids fly alone. no way no how. It isn't safe and planes are not reliable anymore as far as being delayed and even canceled. I would hate for my kid to have to spend hours and hours stuck on a plane by herself. this happend to a little girl while my hubby was flying, they all missed the conecting flight and they were stuck for several hours, all of them starving, luckily he and some other nice adults fed the child. cause the airlines sure didn't keep an eye on her, the other adults did. and by the way this was late at night.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

And if there IS no solution that works for both of them? Of course, I'm sure you and your boyfriend will always come to the perfect solution.

My HUSBAND / father of my child and I are anything but perfect. But i do think it's important to at least consider each other's opinions when making decisions, on child rearing or otherwise. That is seriously all that I have been trying to say.

I think you just have to understand that 50/50 doesn't mean a perfect compromise on every single issue. It means a cooperative spirit between parents where the mother and father come together and make decisions best for their children.

{snip}

Many, many times I would have done something differently but respected my husband's perspective and went his way instead of the way I'd originally thought was best.

I completely agree with this. Both parents should be involved in the decision making and try to work out the best solution possible.

 

[mjkacmom]

WOW! I have never stood up to them before ever until last month. They want to take each of my kids separately overnight. While I'm not wild about that idea, I've okayed it and they've done several sleep overs. The problem with this is the kid who wasn't invited gets his/her feelings hurt. I'm the one who usually has to calm him/her down and make them feel better. Then the next sleep over comes along and we start all over again. I'm exhausted from it all. And I told MIL that this just wasn't working for us. Kids getting feelings hurt, crying about it etc. She told me she didn't intend for that to happen. I told her I knew that but unfortunately my kids were still just kids and someone always felt left out. She said we'll have to figure out something else and that was the last I heard about it for now. It will come up again, it's just a question of when.....

As for an age when I think dd will be ready well... Grandparents live here now and dd can't go to SIL's in denver because of the cats. I knew for sure at age 7 she wasn't ready and I thought maybe when she was 12 or so and now she's almost 12 and I know that she's not ready still.

Well, if at 8 and 11, they can't get the concept of alone sleepovers at grandma's, I can see how she's no near ready to fly alone. My mom has been doing this since the youngest were 3, and it's never been an issue - it's great, actually, because they don't get all that much one-on-one time.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

I started flying from NY to California at a very young age to visit relatives. (by seven) I actually enjoyed the flights and the visits although my mother cried each and every time in the airport when I was leaving. She did not want me to go, but my dad did. (it was to go visit his mom, brother, sil and my cousins) Somehow, mom lost that fight and off I went.

I don't remember being assigned anyone in particular to look out for me onboard but I guess maybe someone was.

I always knew that it upset my mom which upset me, but the trip itself I liked. It would have been even better if not for all the airport drama.

The trips were a good life experience for me. I have a love of traveling now and have gone around Europe solo. I am very comfortable traveling to new places and I know that a lot of that comes from those early independant trips.

Your mind is set so I will leave it at that. I am sure you will work everything out.