Impeach Bush

[Gymbomom]

I think I mentioned this on on another thread (or maybe it was this one, I've lost track

This particular group of people are extremely low on our the socio-economic ladder. They've been used to having the government (local, state and federal) provide everything for them. There's simply no possibility that they'd be able to step up in a disaster situation. They weren't even able to do it in their every day lives.

I know this seems like a harsh statement, but there is truth to it.
This is deep south people we are talking about, in some places a culture of their own.
When evacuations took place, the majority that was left was the above.

~~Although this is just a statement, to understand why they are contributing to the chaos instead of helping themselves.

 

[treesinger]

I don't think we can blame the left, the victims or ignorance. IMO we ALL, as a community, allowed community to lose it's strength.

And now I disagree with you. It is not the collective "our" responsiblity to make others part of the community. It is each and every single persons responsibility to do that for themselves. And by those people interacting, THAT is where true community comes from.

 

[treesinger]

I'm sorry if it came across as a soapbox. And I'm not pointing a finger at the Left. It's our collective society's fault. And I'm definitely not saying they are idiots and it's their fault. I'm specifically saying it's not.

It was apropos to the conversation that unfolded, on this thread. It's not like I'd start a separate one to score political points.

I'm sorry if it looks like I'm picking on you. I don't mean to. I'm just trying to keep the conversation from having too many flashpoints to flame up.

 

[Gymbomom]

Let me make it easy for you...The president has the legal ability as Commander-in Chief according to the Constitution to nationalize the National Guard. Period...Even without state requests (which he DID receive in this case) he could do this the way Eisenhower did it in the 50s to protect the civil rights (and lives) of Americans according to the law. And once a NATIONAL EMERGENCY is declared as was done by this administration this week, he is definitely authorized to send in troops.

But when you get the chance, please do explain what the socio-economic status of these victims has to do with the fact that a) leadership may in fact be occurring...maybe that's why there haven't been riots yet b)these victims were told by local authorities to stay put and wait for food and water to arrive and they are following that request (not to mention the NG had initialy surrounded the Dome preventing acces and egress) and c) even Moses could not lead these people to water and food because there is NONE..that is why they are dying.
~Rose~

Really there is no sense in arguing with a person like this. All the Bush bashing is helping noone in New Orleans right now.

Why don't you channel your energies into something a little more positive??
I just don't get it???

 

[bsnyder]

I know this seems like a harsh statement, but there is truth to it.
This is deep south people we are talking about, in some places a culture of their own.
When evacuations took place, the majority that was left was the above.

~~Although this is just a statement, to understand why they are contributing to the chaos instead of helping themselves.

I don't think things would be a bit different if some type of natural disaster occured in the poorest sections of Detroit.

 

[julia & nicks mom]

Good point. Katrina and 9/11 have a few things in common. One of which is that we really had no benchmark to measure it against.

Yes, I really do think our imaginations failed us. Or, we could imagine it, we just couldn't possibly believe it would be so bad.

An entire city as been wiped from the country. I can imagine it. But seeing it in real life is...unimaginable.

I read papers put out about NO last year when they were threatened about worst case scenarios -

you might not have imagined this - but the city officials in NO had the info in front of them - they knew what would happen if they were hit by a CAT 5 - that is why they put the mandatory evacuation in place - but they failed to prepare for the people who could not get themselves out of town

they should have had buses ready to take people out -
they should have run this model a million times and they simply were not ready

 

[Independent]

No one seems to care that has been working night and day to get things under control when the local government so miserably failed!!

Huh??? He just left his cozy vacation yesterday.

And for all the screaming about the helicopter being shot at:

MSNBC is reporting that was a single, unreliable report on the shooting. MSNBC stated to not believe it, as the report has yet to be substantiated.

So, if there was no shooting at helicopters - there is no excuse not to be air dropping life saving water into the area. Heck, we air drop supplies to remote, inaccessible, dangerous third world countries all the time. Since when is that easier then New Orleans, Louisiana, United States of America?

 

[bsnyder]

I'm sorry if it looks like I'm picking on you. I don't mean to. I'm just trying to keep the conversation from having too many flashpoints to flame up.

Absolutely no problem, treesinger. I don't feel picked on in the least. I hope the feeling is mutual.

I like the free-flow exchange of ideas. And I think they're important topics. And I'll probably keep discussing them with any reasonable person that responds. Because whether we talk about it or not isn't going to make a bit of difference in New Orleans.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

Really there is no sense in arguing with a person like this. All the Bush bashing is helping noone in New Orleans right now.

Why don't you channel your energies into something a little more positive??
I just don't get it???

Aloha!

WoW! I know it is late..but isn't the title of this thread "IMPEACH BUSH"? I better double-check... Yep! That's what it says...and hey, I didn't start it, I'm just one of the contributors
~Rose~

 

[julia & nicks mom]

Huh??? He just left his cozy vacation yesterday.

I worked for a US congressman and I know someone who works in the White House and if you honestly believe the man was on a cushy vacation - you truly do not even begin to comprehend what goes on in our government

 

[treesinger]

I read papers put out about NO last year when they were threatened about worst case scenarios -

you might not have imagined this - but the city officials in NO had the info in front of them - they knew what would happen if they were hit by a CAT 5 - that is why they put the mandatory evacuation in place - but they failed to prepare for the people who could not get themselves out of town

they should have had buses ready to take people out -
they should have run this model a million times and they simply were not ready

yes, they could have been better prepared. But they could not have been completely prepared.

 

[treesinger]

Absolutely no problem, treesinger. I don't feel picked on in the least. I hope the feeling is mutual.

I like the free-flow exchange of ideas. And I think they're important topics. And I'll probably keep discussing them with any reasonable person that responds. Because whether we talk about it or not isn't going to make a bit of difference in New Orleans.

We're cool.

 

[Gymbomom]

Aloha!

WoW! I know it is late..but isn't the title of this thread "IMPEACH BUSH"? I better double-check... Yep! That's what it says...and hey, I didn't start it, I'm just one of the contributors
~Rose~

My point exactly...........

 

[julia & nicks mom]

yes, they could have been better prepared. But they could not have been completely prepared.

I agree you can never be completely prepared but they weren't even close to prepared!!

 

[treesinger]

Aloha!

WoW! I know it is late..but isn't the title of this thread "IMPEACH BUSH"? I better double-check... Yep! That's what it says...and hey, I didn't start it, I'm just one of the contributors
~Rose~

She is positive. Positive she'd like to impeach Bush.

 

[poohandwendy]

And now I disagree with you. It is not the collective "our" responsiblity to make others part of the community. It is each and every single persons responsibility to do that for themselves. And by those people interacting, THAT is where true community comes from.

I wasn't saying it was anyones responsibility to make others feel a part of it...only that I think the importance has been dimmed a bit as a whole. Much less important to many people than it was 50 years ago. Much more of a prevalence of 'me first'...and IMO, that feeling really isn't necessarily limited to any party or socioeconomical group.

 

[RyMickey]

What bothers me immensely about this whole thread is that no one could have predicted what was going to happen. Not local authorities, not federal authorities.

Let's remember that on Monday after the hurricane had passed over the NOLA area, news reports were saying that there was damage, but it seemed that things looked better than could've been expected. I went to bed on Monday night thinking that nothing catastrophic had happened. Tuesday, all hell broke loose when the levees broke - a circumstance that might have been imagined, but wasn't necessarily predicted after the city "made it through" the actual storm.

The fact that blame is being placed on the President disgusts me. He's not my favorite guy in the world, but to blame him is almost childish to me. I 100% guarantee that I wouldn't be blaming Kerry in this situation.

Honestly, this thread has kinda made me sick to my stomach tonight. At least some level-headed folks joined in at the end.

 

[Gymbomom]

She is positive. Positive she'd like to impeach Bush.

Yep, she has voted a couple of times hasn't she..........

 

[treesinger]

Now it is WAYYYYY past my bedtime. Everyone, please be sure to say a prayer for everyone affected by Katrina before you get the good night's sleep that will elude them.



*edited quote out, didn't realize it was even there.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

She is positive. Positive she'd like to impeach Bush.

WAAAAYYYYYY past my bedtime....What do you mean?