I'm curious about AP vs. IB

[Mickey'snewestfan]

My 11 year old is an advanced planner -- he's already designed the house he's going to live in when he retires from the F.B.I. at age 41 and moves to Montana with his German Shepherd Dog (named Arrow) 2 iguanas (Spike and Leaf), and 10 ferrets (all of whom are already named, but the only one I remember is Yogurt).

In order to achieve this life goal, he has decided that it is imperative that he graduate from college at 21 rather than 22 (because you can join the FBI at 21, but only if you already hold a college degree).

This has lead to many questions about various routes to gaining college credit while still in high school. Our local high school has both an AP track, and an IB diploma track. It doesn't have a dual enrollment program.

Although I suspect that his life plan will change slightly as he gets older, I also believe in taking my child's questions seriously, so we've spent a lot of time discussing this, and now I'm curious.

It seems as though, if he has this same goal as a high school sophomore, he'll be able to choose between 3 options: 1) Take a fair number of AP classes (lots to choose from), 2) Pursue an IB diploma (which means fewer choices of classes, but some that seem closely aligned with his interest), or 3) Pick and choose AP classes and IB classes according to his interests.

So, I'm curious what other people in the same position have chosen, and what the pros and cons of each option are. One thing I've heard is that AP has more memorizaton and IB has more in depth thinking. Another thing I've noticed is that the IB program seems much more Europe focused (e.g. you need 2 years of European History, whereas if you do AP you can choose U.S. history, or World History).

Anyway, I don't really have specific questions, just want to hear peoples' thoughts and experiences.

 

[Aisling]

I'm sorry I can't specifically help, but I wanted to tell you about my son. He wasn't a major planner like yours, but early on he wanted to be a intelligence analyst for the CIA. He graduated with a B.A. degree in Political Science at age 20, straight As. He went straight for his Masters and earned that from a prestigious university at age 23, in International Diplomacy. During that time, he spent a semester at the Rome, Italy campus to learn Italian and get some international experience. (He had his own apartment). He's fluent in Spanish. He's an experience Mixed Martial Artist, so is in great shape and knows how to fight. He was accepted for the PhD (doctorate program) in another prestigious school for International Intelligence. All this time, he's been waiting for his "call-back" from the CIA. He was interviewed and was told on the side that unless he can speak Chinese, Arabic, Farsi, Croatian or Albanian his chances are slim. My poor son. Well, at lease he'll have his PhD so he can be a professor.

My point is, I realize this is the CIA and not the FBI in his case, but my advice to you is to help your son find out what the trends are/will be in the years to come for what the FBI is looking for in a special agent. If specific foreign language is an issue, have him start learning NOW. Contact the FBI and try to see if there's a local office near you for a mentoring session with a special agent. I wish him all the best.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Aisling,

Your son sounds like an incredible young man. Hopefully he'll achieve his dream, or find something equally satisfying.

I have no idea if my son will have the same dream in a few years. If he does, you have good advice, and advice that might actually make the AP/IB decision for him. The high school he'll probably go to offers Chinese (both AP and IB) and Arabic (which is not an IB language) so if he chooses the latter, he won't be able to choose the full IB diploma.

 

[nskjerven]

I was thinking of PP son (and dear friend) as I read the OP post. So interesting that one can have a goal for so long and make every effort to walk the path to get there only to find that the path had a slight deviation in that path that wasn't seen nor taken.

I have to say with all the planning bones in my parental body (which is most of them) that a child at 11 most likely doesn't know what or who they will become as an adult, therefore savor the time you have and make the best choices for the current situation (hopefully one that gives you lots of options) but most important ENJOY today and being 11

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

OK, I need to be really clear, that I don't think any of this will come true. Parts of it would be fine if they happened (FBI is a great career choice IMO) and parts of it I'd rather not see come to fruition (I think he's planning on having me live with him and share a room with those ferrets , he also swears I'll never be a grandma because girls are gross). At his age I wanted to raise Christmas trees for a living, now I'm a teacher which is a much better fit. Last year this kid wanted to be a computer animator, I'm sure next year he'll be on to astronaut or something.

So, I'm not asking about AP vs. IB because I want to help guide my child in one direction or another. It's just that I believe that when kids ask questions we should answer them, so I've been going on the high school website to get the answers, and it's raised questions of my own. Since I'm in education (the other end of the age span though), I'm always curious about education issues, and thought this one was an interesting one.

 

[bumbershoot]

I don't know what IB is.

But if you're looking to the AP classes in order to get credits as you enter college...he'll want to plan his college *carefully*.

My brother went to a huge high school in Miami, FL, took all the AP courses and tests there were (far more AP courses than he would have had if my mom hadn't moved from the area where I went to high school). Passed all he took with flying colors.

And then he went to Duke. Where they did NOT give credit for AP. Sure, he didn't have to *take* those classes...but he had to take *something* for the credits. So he didn't get ahead at all, in terms of graduating. And of course the courses he got to take were at a higher level.

So all he really did was make life harder for himself!


I take it his birthday falls so he'll be 22 at graduation?

Don't forget to think about summer courses to get him further ahead while he is in college. I took a couple courses one summer because I was working on pre-reqs for chiropractic college, and didn't have the room in my normal class load to take them. Was actually quite fun! Turns out I do much better in a very short class term, with several hours a day instead of just one.

 

[Katie's Butterflies]

I’m afraid I don’t know what IB means, so I can’t compare the two…

Also, another thing to consider is that some local CC/JC have special rates for high school and middle school students, so you could look into that. Basically, instead of attending college through a high school program, a high school (or in some cases, middle school) student can attend classes for college credit at a less expensive rate.

 

[allison443]

If you are looking at whether AP or IB will allow the student to enter college with more credits, it appears that the AP classes will.

see http://voices.washingtonpost.com/class-struggle/2010/02/u-va_discriminates_against_sma.html

However, universities vary in what they accept as far as AP scores. Some require 4 or 5, some accept 3s, others require different scores for different subjects. Like another poster said, sometimes they only accept the AP courses to waive certain required courses.

 

[allison443]

Is your son interested in being an FBI agent, or working for the FBI in another capacity? I don't think you can be an agent at age 21, regardless of whether you have a college degree.

 

[lacrosse_lady72]

If you are looking at whether AP or IB will allow the student to enter college with more credits, it appears that the AP classes will.

see http://voices.washingtonpost.com/class-struggle/2010/02/u-va_discriminates_against_sma.html

However, universities vary in what they accept as far as AP scores. Some require 4 or 5, some accept 3s, others require different scores for different subjects. Like another poster said, sometimes they only accept the AP courses to waive certain required courses.

And as the article said, "That means AP is a better than IB, right? No."

I think a very important thing to take into consideration is the university/ies your son might want to attend, or even if he has an idea. Ask them. Ask at the score is for each subject that will be accepted as college credit. Another thing is, will he want to miss that time in college? Getting credits for high school classes would be awesome of course but, will that limit his college experience?

Just a few things to think about, or at least, I would.

Fwiw, I was a IB full diploma student. I took English HL, Biology HL, Visual Arts HL, French SL, Math Studies SL and 20th Century History SL.

 

[allison443]

And as the article said, "That means AP is a better than IB, right? No."

I think a very important thing to take into consideration is the university/ies your son might want to attend, or even if he has an idea. Ask them. Ask at the score is for each subject that will be accepted as college credit. Another thing is, will he want to miss that time in college? Getting credits for high school classes would be awesome of course but, will that limit his college experience?

Just a few things to think about, or at least, I would.

Fwiw, I was a IB full diploma student. I took English HL, Biology HL, Visual Arts HL, French SL, Math Studies SL and 20th Century History SL.

Oh I agree, the article seemed to be saying that IB was actually better, more demanding, but that universities give more credit for AP classes. That is what the OP was asking about, with the goal of finishing college in three years instead of four. She wasn't asking which was better, more rigorous, etc.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

OK, again to be clear, my guess is that my son will change his miind many times between now and then, so I'm not actually looking for advice for him. He is, afterall, 11 and won't take either kind of class for more than 5 years.

It's just that all his questions are making me think in general.

The article seemed to say that UVA gives more credit for IB, but I know that other schools give more.

 

[Schmeck]

The more exclusive the college or university is, the less credit they will give to any 'special, advanced' classes taken in high school. Been there, done that with my oldest daughter. She took AP exams for all the AP classes offered at our high school, and also took 2 more on her own, and her college accepted none of them.

We think of those classes and exams as just stuff that looks better on applications than the honors/CP classes.

To note - our high school offers dual enrollment classes with our local community college. Some kids can get out of high school with 1 to 1 1/2 years of college credit. Of course it is community college credit, and only accepted at our state college/university system (and maybe some lower level private colleges).

 

[golfgal]

There is not better or worse for AP/IB, just different. If your son wants to graduate from college a year ahead of schedule he should really look into dual enrollment. This is where high school juniors and seniors can take college level classes either in the high school, on a college campus or online and they count for both high school credit and college credit. This is mainly a way to get the general eds out of the way. Many kids that take full advantage of the program we have in MN graduate from high school with 1-2 years of college credits under their belt. Now, compare that to AP/IB and the dual enrollment credits automatically transfer where as it is hit or miss with the AP/IB credits. Also, with AP/IB usually that means you can take History 201 vs History 101 but they don't really give you extra "credits" for graduation--some colleges don't but most colleges just let you take higher level classes to start.

Dual enrollment in our state is free--tuition, books, supplies included, some states charge, but it is pretty minimal. Not all states have this program but you should easily be able to find information on your state just by googling it.

 

[AshleyW]

There is not better or worse for AP/IB, just different. If your son wants to graduate from college a year ahead of schedule he should really look into dual enrollment. This is where high school juniors and seniors can take college level classes either in the high school, on a college campus or online and they count for both high school credit and college credit. This is mainly a way to get the general eds out of the way. Many kids that take full advantage of the program we have in MN graduate from high school with 1-2 years of college credits under their belt. Now, compare that to AP/IB and the dual enrollment credits automatically transfer where as it is hit or miss with the AP/IB credits. Also, with AP/IB usually that means you can take History 201 vs History 101 but they don't really give you extra "credits" for graduation--some colleges don't but most colleges just let you take higher level classes to start.

Dual enrollment in our state is free--tuition, books, supplies included, some states charge, but it is pretty minimal. Not all states have this program but you should easily be able to find information on your state just by googling it.

She said in the OP that his school doesn't have a dual enrollment program.

Anyway, OP, I don't really have any advice about IB vs AP -- I've never heard of IB before. But, I did take some AP classes (Calculus, Physics and German) and didn't have any trouble getting the credits to be accepted at the school I went to.

 

[golfgal]

She said in the OP that his school doesn't have a dual enrollment program.

Anyway, OP, I don't really have any advice about IB vs AP -- I've never heard of IB before. But, I did take some AP classes (Calculus, Physics and German) and didn't have any trouble getting the credits to be accepted at the school I went to.

I missed that--maybe between now and then they will add that. . It is still possible that the state has the program and he might be able to take some classes on line or in the evenings at the local college as part of the program.

 

[maddiel]

Here's a good like to find out how universities treat IB

I don't know much bout AP because it's uncommon here - I think there's only one public school in the province that offers it. IB (International Baccalaureate, for those who aren't familiar with it) is more common.

My daughter is in first year IB and I think it's very good fit for her.
IB should really be taken as a complete program, not piecemeal. AP is supposed to be way more acceptable in the US and allows more freedom to pick and choose.

I hope my DD will be able to get credit for her first year of university, and I think at the moment with her marks and with the schools she's considering that that is likely. I am quite certain that even if she doesn't get her first year credited, she'll be very well prepared.

M.

 

[Rora]

I can only comment on the AP part. I took these of AP classes: Human Geography, World History, US History, Language, Psychology, Environmental Science, Government, Literature and European History. I passed all the exams but one (Human Geo...) and went to college with a year already under my belt. I graduated in 3 years instead of 4.

If your son really wants to get in with the FBI, taking as many challenging classes as he can (within reason!) is of course only going to benefit him. I love the AP system but I'm sure there are many perks to IB (it's a very very tough program, however). I would also recommend that your son take 4 years of a foreign language in high school (do they offer anything out of the ordinary-- like Chinese?) and to absolutely take foreign languages in college (especially ones the FBI needs-- none of the Romance Languages).

Best of luck to him and you!

 

[golfgal]

I can only comment on the AP part. I took these of AP classes: Human Geography, World History, US History, Language, Psychology, Environmental Science, Government, Literature and European History. I passed all the exams but one (Human Geo...) and went to college with a year already under my belt. I graduated in 3 years instead of 4.

If your son really wants to get in with the FBI, taking as many challenging classes as he can (within reason!) is of course only going to benefit him. I love the AP system but I'm sure there are many perks to IB (it's a very very tough program, however). I would also recommend that your son take 4 years of a foreign language in high school (do they offer anything out of the ordinary-- like Chinese?) and to absolutely take foreign languages in college (especially ones the FBI needs-- none of the Romance Languages).

Best of luck to him and you!

That is a VERY good suggestion.

 

[Rora]

The more exclusive the college or university is, the less credit they will give to any 'special, advanced' classes taken in high school.

This is really important to remember as well. Ivy League schools as well as "Second Tier Ivy" schools such as Duke will not give as many credits for special/advanced programs. Also, keep in mind that ALL univiersities have a cap of how many hours you can come in with. I had a friend who took every AP class and had over 70 hours. She was allowed to bring 35 in.