If your 9 y.o. snooped in their Christmas gifts - UPDATE post #96

[It'sWDW4me]

The lying is troublesome, but as pointed out upthread, if telling the truth was likely to result in no presents, I'd have lied too.

Ah, but if the lying results in no presents would you ever lie again? Maybe, just maybe, that was the lesson mom was trying to teach.

Would he have gotten different presents than the ones he had snooped out had he admitted his transgression? We don't know the answer to that one.

 

[rubato]

I don't tolerate lying. My son doesn't really get in trouble often. He's a fantastic child. But, if he's done something and then lies about it, he's grounded, no tv, no games, no toys, no friends. He's lied 2 or 3 times, and never again. Lesson learned.

If my child had done what the op stated, I would have put the presents unwrapped under the tree. Told him he couldn't touch them, and made a HUGE deal out of everyone else opening theirs on Christmas morning. He would see that the surprise was gone and probably not do it again.

I think the mom was a little extreme, but I don't know all the circumstances. It's possible that this child was a repeat offender and lied all the time. I don't know. I hope she has a little change of heart and he gets something for Christmas.

 

[Ceila]

Aw, poor kid. Unless there is way more the story, then the mom went completely overboard. Kids peek, and although lying is wrong, lying about snooping for presents doesn't warrant this kind of reaction.

I can just picture him at the store in tears, handing (what he probably thinks is his whole Christmas) back to the clerk. And now dreading what should be a joyous occassion thinking he's getting nothing for Christmas. The lying was wrong of course, but this isn't the way to teach a lesson.

 

[mjkacmom]

Ah, but if the lying results in no presents would you ever lie again? Maybe, just maybe, that was the lesson mom was trying to teach.

Would he have gotten different presents than the ones he had snooped out had he admitted his transgression? We don't know the answer to that one.

Ah, and if she beat the cr@p out of him, maybe that would work too, but that would be considered extreme. There are many punishments I could dole out that would absolutely make sure my kids don't lie, but I think I can use less cruel measures and still get the same result.

 

[crisi]

Ah, but if the lying results in no presents would you ever lie again? Maybe, just maybe, that was the lesson mom was trying to teach.

Would he have gotten different presents than the ones he had snooped out had he admitted his transgression? We don't know the answer to that one.

Yes. If the end result of lying or not lying is the same, and the chance that you might get away with lying is higher than zero - you have nothing to loose by lying. That's simply logical - even if it isn't ethical.

If it was the lying that caused an otherwise reasonable mother who has never reacted like this before to return presents, then maybe I'd be cured of lying. Somehow, I suspect that the lying was not the total driver for the extreme action - maybe without the lying, she'd have just returned the presents herself without the added humiliation of having him confess.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

Yes. If the end result of lying or not lying is the same, and the chance that you might get away with lying is higher than zero - you have nothing to loose by lying. That's simply logical - even if it isn't ethical.
If it was the lying that caused an otherwise reasonable mother who has never reacted like this before to return presents, then maybe I'd be cured of lying. Somehow, I suspect that the lying was not the total driver for the extreme action - maybe without the lying, she'd have just returned the presents herself without the added humiliation of having him confess.

No, the point that I was trying to make is:

Mom finds out that DS was snooping and has found his Christmas presents. Mom and DS have a discussion about why that was wrong and DS denies the snooping. Mom informs DS that she's upset and DS will be punished for snooping but if DS tells mom the truth, the punishment will not be as severe as if he continues to lie. DS continues to lie about the snooping issue. Mom now takes DS along to take back said controversial presents but he wouldn't have lost his presents if he would have admitted the truth.

This could have been the scenario, we don't really know. If this were the case, mom is punishing the lying. Again, we don't really know. I'm trying to give mom the benefit of the doubt but I do know there are extreme nutjobs out there that go over the top right off the bat.

My DS is now in a world of trouble for this exact scenario. Well, it wasn't about snooping out presents but he did do something that I'm not happy about. I confronted him about it, he lied about it, and I warned him that his punishment would be oh so much worse if he doesn't tell me the truth about his scenario. He continued to lie. Now the punishment is amped. I hope he'll learn this first time around.

 

[Chelley00]

One of my sons found his big gift in my closet a few years ago. He then told his brother what he was getting, and the brother told me DS had found it. When I confronted DS, he lied saying he didn't find anything and that brother was lying. The more I pressed, DS finally admitted it.

So, he's busted for snooping in my room which is off limits to the kids, lying to me about it, then trying to blame it on his brother. We have a no lying policy and the kids know they get into more trouble for lying than they do for the "crime" they are covering up. We also don't blame people for our actions and take responsibility for ourselves. They've been taught this since they were very little.

He went with me to return the toy. Talk about a lesson. He cried, he begged. We just kept telling him these are the consequences for lying and placing blame. I could have been okay with the snooping, but the lying did it.

The next day, I went back to the store and bought it again. He's not so traumatized that he won't speak to me, he's a good kid, gets good grades and we get along fine. We laugh about it now. So call me Mommy Dearest if you want. I can handle it.

 

[crisi]

Yes, which is why I added the second paragraph of my post. The part you didn't bother to bold.......IF mother was an otherwise reasonable person, it might cure me of lying. But I suspect a person who humliates her child by making him explain repeatedly why they are returning his gifts has not always been reasonable in the past - in which case, if I were her nine year old kid, I'd lie through my teeth to avoid her wrath.

Be careful what you teach your kid - you may only be teaching them to be a better liar.

 

[robinb]

One of my sons found his big gift in my closet a few years ago. He then told his brother what he was getting, and the brother told me DS had found it. When I confronted DS, he lied saying he didn't find anything and that brother was lying. The more I pressed, DS finally admitted it.

So, he's busted for snooping in my room which is off limits to the kids, lying to me about it, then trying to blame it on his brother. We have a no lying policy and the kids know they get into more trouble for lying than they do for the "crime" they are covering up. We also don't blame people for our actions and take responsibility for ourselves. They've been taught this since they were very little.

He went with me to return the toy. Talk about a lesson. He cried, he begged. We just kept telling him these are the consequences for lying and placing blame. I could have been okay with the snooping, but the lying did it.

The next day, I went back to the store and bought it again. He's not so traumatized that he won't speak to me, he's a good kid, gets good grades and we get along fine. We laugh about it now. So call me Mommy Dearest if you want. I can handle it.

OK, Mommy Dearest. What lesson did you teach your child? That if he lies he will be publicly humiliated? Niiiice.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

OK, Mommy Dearest. What lesson did you teach your child? That if he lies he will be publicly humiliated? Niiiice.

The child was not placed in the stockade. He wasn't flogged. He wasn't made to stand on a street corner wearing a sandwich-board proclaiming to the world that he lied to his parents. Publicly humiliated? He went to one store, one sales clerk, one time. It doesn't sound like he was scarred for life but it does sound like he learned a valuable life lesson.

I'll share my flame suit with you Chelley00!

 

[robinb]

The child was not placed in the stockade. He wasn't flogged. He wasn't made to stand on a street corner wearing a sandwich-board proclaiming to the world that he lied to his parents. Publicly humiliated? He went to one store, one sales clerk, one time. It doesn't sound like he was scarred for life but it does sound like he learned a valuable life lesson.

That "one time" was in public, that "one store" was in public and the "one sales clerk" worked in public. So yeah, he was humiliated in public. I would also guess that some of the pleading and tears was done at the store.

I'm not saying that she shouldn't have punished her child for lying. I'm saying that, like the OP's mom in her group, the punishment far outstripped the crime. Poor kid.

 

[DawnM]

This goes right up there with the "I made my daughter pick out a gift for herself and then gave it away" thinking.

Way too extreme!

Dawn

 

[Nicholfamily5]

my two cents....

It is kinda hard to answer if this was overboard or not. Putting myself in that situation, if the kid has been fairly good up to now, way overboard. If the kid has been giving her trouble, like my son has recently (as in still) been punished for lying, than absolutely she should stick to her guns with it.

I guess we just don't know the whole story, and I know I wouldn't want to be judged for how I discipline, especially from strangers who don't have all the information.

 

[Nicholfamily5]

One of my sons found his big gift in my closet a few years ago. He then told his brother what he was getting, and the brother told me DS had found it. When I confronted DS, he lied saying he didn't find anything and that brother was lying. The more I pressed, DS finally admitted it.

So, he's busted for snooping in my room which is off limits to the kids, lying to me about it, then trying to blame it on his brother. We have a no lying policy and the kids know they get into more trouble for lying than they do for the "crime" they are covering up. We also don't blame people for our actions and take responsibility for ourselves. They've been taught this since they were very little.

He went with me to return the toy. Talk about a lesson. He cried, he begged. We just kept telling him these are the consequences for lying and placing blame. I could have been okay with the snooping, but the lying did it.

The next day, I went back to the store and bought it again. He's not so traumatized that he won't speak to me, he's a good kid, gets good grades and we get along fine. We laugh about it now. So call me Mommy Dearest if you want. I can handle it.

Just wanted to add- this is exactly how I would have handled it myself.

 

[Chelley00]

OK, Mommy Dearest. What lesson did you teach your child? That if he lies he will be publicly humiliated? Niiiice.

He learned that there are consequences to his actions. Too many kids today don't learn that everything we do causes a consequence, whether good or bad. How many parents let things go undone because they are afraid their child might get mad or get their feelings hurt? What happens if he lies to a teacher and gets caught in front of the class, or lies to his boss when he's older? There might be some public interaction that he'll have to face.

DS is not scarred for life because he had to return gift because he broke the rules. He learned a valuable lesson that day. He learned that when you do something you know you are not supposed to do and then lie about it and try to blame it on someone else, there are consequences. Punishments are not supposed to be easy because then the child learns nothing.

You may think I'm a horrible mother, but I have 4 straight A students (well 3 since the little one is in preschool) who respect their parents, teachers and others around them and are well behaved, volunteer their time to help others, and are polite, good kids because of the fact they've been taught about consequences. I'll respectfully disagree with your horrible mother views of me.

 

[Chelley00]

I'll share my flame suit with you Chelley00!

Thank you! I hate getting flogged alone

 

[CrAzY4DL]

<insert soapbox here>

Wow, sure got some judge-y people on here!! I'm not going to comment on whether I think this was over the top or not, just going to state our policy.


I tell the girls, this is OUR room and you know you aren't allowed in here. If you look, whatever you find you will not get. I will take it back to the store, give it to your cousin, or donate it to a needy child.

Now, would I take them back to the store and make the kid do the explaining? Probably not. I have a DD10, who lies A LOT and a DD6, who doesn't lie at all. If I caught one of them snooping and then lying about it, I *might* take them with me when I returned it but I don't think I would make them tell the cashier.

We don't know the background of this kid and his mom. We don't know if he is a chronic liar, we don't know if she has literally tried everything under the sun. We have 2 AMAZING children. They are extremely intelligent, very well behaved (in public, LOL), can't say enough great things about my girls. But we are at our wits end with DD10. She is so scared of getting into trouble for anything, small or big, that she lies about almost everything. And no, we don't beat her or ground her a lot or any of that, so I don't know what she is so scared of. DH says it is because she is scared to be thought less of (he was quite the liar too when younger, so maybe he is onto something there). Right now we are on a "someday you are going to want a cellphone/to go places on your own/a car and we need to know we can trust you for the little things before we can trust you for the big things" kick. We now write down every lie and keep it on a small whiteboard in the laundry room. We had 3 in November and so far none in December. Does this make me Mommy Dearest?

As parents, we have so much we have to deal with we are all just doing the best that we can. For any of us to sit and judge another parent on something this poor woman probably didn't WANT to do, wow glad to know there are so many perfect parents out there who have handled EVERY situation perfectly. Your children must be outstanding children who never snoop or lie or test your limits. Now, if this parent were to come on here and say, "heck yeah I enjoyed doing this, it was fun, serves the little monster right," then sure, get out your judge-y shoes. But the one time I had to really, REALLY punish DD10 (she didn't get to do a sleepover with a friend that she was REALLY looking forward to) I felt horrible about it and so wanted to go back on my word and let her go, but I had to stick to it. So I seriously doubt this woman ENJOYED doing this.

<stepping off my box>

 

[DawnM]

Well, you have not only clearly told them the boundaries but you have given a clear consequence. I would agree with you in this situation if you have done all of that prior to the kid finding it. There was no idication that this child posted was given any warning or clear consequence beforehand.

Dawn

<insert soapbox here>

Wow, sure got some judge-y people on here!! I'm not going to comment on whether I think this was over the top or not, just going to state our policy.


I tell the girls, this is OUR room and you know you aren't allowed in here. If you look, whatever you find you will not get. I will take it back to the store, give it to your cousin, or donate it to a needy child.



<stepping off my box>

 

[tzolkin]

I vote for follow through, it does seem a little extreme but if that was the penalty, so be it.

It doesn't say that the mom was following through on a previous threat ("If you snoop, you don't get any gifts"), so I don't know if that's why she returned the gifts or if that was just her reaction to the snooping/lying. Maybe she did say that and felt the need to follow through or maybe she just over-reacted.

I agree that it's important to follow through, but that's exactly why I think about what I'm threatening before I say it. I wouldn't say to my kids that if they snooped into their Christmas presents that they wouldn't get any because I know I couldn't follow through and not give them anything. I know many people who threaten their kids with ridiculous things (the "I'll rip your arm off and beat you with it" is one that comes to mind or saying on the first day of vacation that you're going to pack up and go home) The kid knows that's not likely going to happen, so there's no clear consequence for what will actually happen if their behavior continues.

I think that was a little harsh. What I would do if he snooped and saw all of his presents is stick to not getting him anything else as a surprise. He snooped, he saw, his surprise and delight on Christmas morning is ruined. I'm a big believer in natural consequences. Snooping, IMO, doesn't equal a disqualification for the gifts. As his mom, however, I'd find a better hiding spot for next year.

I agree. I actually don't think I've ever told my kids not to snoop. I buy things throughout the year and hide/wrap them. My brother snooped one year and then even told my sisters and I what a few of our presents were. He lost out on the surprise of opening his gifts and also had his sisters annoyed with him. Everyone made him feel so bad about it that he never tried it again.

My child would have been punished for lying, but not by receiving no gifts for Christmas.

 

[eroilersgal]

One of my sons found his big gift in my closet a few years ago. He then told his brother what he was getting, and the brother told me DS had found it. When I confronted DS, he lied saying he didn't find anything and that brother was lying. The more I pressed, DS finally admitted it.

So, he's busted for snooping in my room which is off limits to the kids, lying to me about it, then trying to blame it on his brother. We have a no lying policy and the kids know they get into more trouble for lying than they do for the "crime" they are covering up. We also don't blame people for our actions and take responsibility for ourselves. They've been taught this since they were very little.

He went with me to return the toy. Talk about a lesson. He cried, he begged. We just kept telling him these are the consequences for lying and placing blame. I could have been okay with the snooping, but the lying did it.


I am with you to this point. The next sentence baffles me.....
what does he learn when you go back and buy the present again???? Just asking.....