If you have experience, please help in dealing with an autistic student. UPDATE p.6

[Mouse House Mama]

DS12 is an Aspie toucher. He does it because he craves human contact; it is NOT a sexually motivated thing, and he would be hugely shocked at the suggestion that it might be.

Touchers tend to touch girls because until they get older, girls tend to tolerate casual touch without issue as long as it is not on the order of grabbing. Aspie boys who crave human touch learn very early on that touching other boys even in the slightest ways will get them called nasty names and hit, so they are drawn to girls, who tend not to get overtly angry over it.

Punishing an AS toucher will not really help much; they crave human contact so badly that it is almost like punishing them for breathing. They need to be redirected and given some other way to satisfy that need to connect with other people.

Most touchers never really stop; they just eventually learn to find appropriate avenues to get what they want. Very often an adolescent Aspie boy will become that boy that everyone "thinks" is gay but who has one close female friend and is never seen to date anyone. Relationships like those are often filled with platonic touching -- lots of hugs and finger flicks and such. As adults, Aspie men who can manage long-term relationships tend to be very cuddly sorts.

While I totally understand what you are saying it still makes the touchee (is that even a word?) uncomfortable and they shouldn't have to feel that way. I agree that the toucher needs to find other outlets so they can cope.

 

[Wonders10]

Hi there,

I am a speech pathologist (SLP) in the schools working primarily with autistic children. The first thing I thought of was that it sounds like he has trouble with transitioning from one activity to another so make a daily schedule. A couple other people suggested it as well and it is a great one. I'm assuming your days are mostly the same. For example, 8-8:45 math, 8:45-9:30 science, etc. include everything in your day. A GREAT program is called Boardmaker. It has a lot of picture symbols. It is expensive but if you google it, you may be able to find similar type pictures. Something I like to do or have seen done is to have the child move the picture symbol from one side to the other of the paper to show that it is finished. You might also considering speaking to your SLP at your school. She may have the boardmaker program as well as some other great advice for working with this student.

Another thing you might want to think about is giving him a break or what we call a "safe space" where he can go and just chill out. It is not a time out or a punishment. It is a place where he can destress from the sensory overload he may be experiencing. Even without a designated safe speace area, a break (think just a couple minutes) might be a good idea. Depending on his breaking point, you would throw in breaks. Maybe it is after every subject area, or after 3 subject areas, etc.

Try to collect some sensory items like those squishy koosh balls or the stress balls. water bottles filled with glitter are fun too. It helps keep their hands occupied so they might not touch other things - like the students. I would be hesitant to use anything weighted, even if just on his lap or for him to hold. We have to have parental permission to use weighted items here so even though they are often helpful, I wouldn't want you getting in trouble for using one. If your school as an occupational therapist, she might be another great resource for you to chat with.

My school has 3 designated units for students with autism. Many of them get mainstreamed for at least 1 or 2 classes, but most are self contained. Our school has become very accepting of autism but there are still teachers who just see the students as behavior problems and can't be bothered so I applaud you for recognizing the issues and trying your best to help this little guy out!

Let me know if you need any more info on what I wrote...I tend to ramble!

 

[jodifla]

I cannot believe some of the comments on this thread. Unbelievable. 1st grade sexual harassment? Give me a break.

OP, you have NO RIGHT to try and Dx autism. Not your job, nor your expertise. And a bunch of people in the school system observing and "agreeing" that a child is "on the spectrum" is what got us into this mess of children being fraudulently labeled when they may have something else going on that needs particular treatment and support. Parents all over the country are starting to push back and rebel at this sort of school-based autism "epidemic."

BUT you should be getting lots of help for your classroom since you already have a lot of IEPs in there. There's no excuse for your classroom not to have an aide and for you to have a lot more support.

And the parents are really, really falling behind here. Even if they don't feel the ASD label is accurate, and it certainly may not be, they should be working with the school to get all the support in place that this child needs to succeed. At least in the U.S., there are other labels that can get a child all the support he/she needs.

Schools don't do themselves any favors with their relentless pushing for ASD labels to be put on kids. It's all about the school and the politics and money behind the label, and not about the individual child's needs. Your administration should be supporting you and this child. It is failing both of you miserably.

 

[jodifla]

I wanted to bring something up. Please do not send this child on errands or give them special "jobs." While as an adult I understand why you are doing that the other children in class will view it as a reward for this child's poor (even if he can't help it) behavior. Kids that young love to get picked by the teacher to do special jobs like run errands or help in the classroom. They will see S acting up and getting all the "special" jobs and you will create an unhappy classroom overall.
Just something to think about.

This is old-fashioned thinking. This child has special needs and will need a differentiated curriculum. Some of it may be sensory, which could include walks in the hall or even to the PT room for trampoline, trapeze or ball bouncing.

Would you feel the same way if the child were physically handicapped and needed to walk to keep his muscles limber?

 

[debbi801]

That is an awful lot of attention and focus for one child. What about the other 20 kids in the class? Do they just have to fend for themselves?

Seriously?

It would take all of 5 minutes One Time to make a schedule and place it on the child's desk. None of the things I mentioned would take SO much time that the rest of the class would need to fend for themselves. She is asking for ideas, I gave them. It would take very little time (and it is a one time deal) to go grab a squish ball or clay from the art teacher for him to manipulate.

The jobs are not "rewards" they are to be used before he gets into trouble as a way to prevent getting into trouble. If the teacher knows that S gets into trouble during math and has problems paying attention, giving S a 2 minute break so that he can then do his work and not get into trouble ONLY helps the rest of the class.

While it would be nice if S was diagnosed so that he could get the services he needs, he isn't. So, I am offering suggestions to help, which is what she asked for. Even with a diagnosis, odds are not much would change. The child would most likely be mainstreamed in her class, the rest of the kids would have to "fend for themselves" for an extra minute or two while she helps S. It is a good thing, students can learn a lot about compassion for those different from themselves that way. While S would maybe get extra services to help with some of his issues, he'd still be at school. ( Even though my son was moved to a highly recommended asperger's program, it is part of a public school and he is mainstreamed for all of his classes.)

 

[NotUrsula]

I cannot believe some of the comments on this thread. Unbelievable. 1st grade sexual harassment? Give me a break.

I don't think that anyone implied that the OP's case had any sexual harassment component; that came up in the context of someone remembering being "touched" in middle school. IME, such touching does sometimes get interpreted that way once you are dealing with children who are nearing puberty, which is why I mentioned that sometimes it has absolutely no such context.

Getting touched when you don't want to be is certainly annoying and distracting, and kids who feel the need to touch others for reasons related to AS need to be redirected. We don't know if her student is on the spectrum, but as she is in a position where the other children are being bothered, an attempt at redirection wouldn't go amiss, and might help.

 

[jodifla]

Seriously?

It would take all of 5 minutes One Time to make a schedule and place it on the child's desk. None of the things I mentioned would take SO much time that the rest of the class would need to fend for themselves. She is asking for ideas, I gave them. It would take very little time (and it is a one time deal) to go grab a squish ball or clay from the art teacher for him to manipulate.

The jobs are not "rewards" they are to be used before he gets into trouble as a way to prevent getting into trouble. If the teacher knows that S gets into trouble during math and has problems paying attention, giving S a 2 minute break so that he can then do his work and not get into trouble ONLY helps the rest of the class.

While it would be nice if S was diagnosed so that he could get the services he needs, he isn't. So, I am offering suggestions to help, which is what she asked for. Even with a diagnosis, odds are not much would change. The child would most likely be mainstreamed in her class, the rest of the kids would have to "fend for themselves" for an extra minute or two while she helps S. It is a good thing, students can learn a lot about compassion for those different from themselves that way. While S would maybe get extra services to help with some of his issues, he'd still be at school. ( Even though my son was moved to a highly recommended asperger's program, it is part of a public school and he is mainstreamed for all of his classes.)

Great suggestions earlier, and great followup post!

 

[jodifla]

I don't think that anyone implied that the OP's case had any sexual harassment component; that came up in the context of someone remembering being "touched" in middle school. IME, such touching does sometimes get interpreted that way once you are dealing with children who are nearing puberty, which is why I mentioned that sometimes it has absolutely no such context.

Getting touched when you don't want to be is certainly annoying and distracting, and kids who feel the need to touch others for reasons related to AS need to be redirected. We don't know if her student is on the spectrum, but as she is in a position where the other children are being bothered, an attempt at redirection wouldn't go amiss, and might help.

Post No. 11 on this thread
It seems to me that about all you can do is keep suspending him for his behavior and maybe the parents will get the hint. Touching the girls would appear to be sexual harrassment, whether or not he knows what he is doing.

 

[NotUrsula]

OK, I stand corrected. I agree, that conclusion would be a long reach when the culprit is a 6 yo, unless there was some other overtly sexual behavior being exhibited along with it. (Because it is possible for a 6 yo to act out sexually, though it would certainly be very unusual and indicative of a different cause, of course.)

 

[jodifla]

OK, I stand corrected. I agree, that conclusion would be a long reach when the culprit is a 6 yo, unless there was some other overtly sexual behavior being exhibited along with it. (Because it is possible for a 6 yo to act out sexually, though it would certainly be very unusual and indicative of a different cause, of course.)

Yes, I see what you are saying.

 

[jodifla]

OP, books that you may find interesting and helpful now that you are seeing more and more mainstreamed kids are

The Child with Special Needs, by Stanley Greenspan, the floortime and autism expert

and

The Mislabeled Child by Fernette and Brock Eides, she's pediatric neurologist and he's an internist.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

This is old-fashioned thinking. This child has special needs and will need a differentiated curriculum. Some of it may be sensory, which could include walks in the hall or even to the PT room for trampoline, trapeze or ball bouncing.

Would you feel the same way if the child were physically handicapped and needed to walk to keep his muscles limber?

It is not old fashioned thinking. It is the way a child thinks. This child has not been diagnosed as special needs. This child by all accounts has been labeled typical. At this point he is not getting a differentiated curriculum.

If the only thing the class sees is this child misbehaving then in the eyes of a 6 year old this child is being rewarded for their behavior by being chosen to help the teacher or run errands etc. If you read my post you would see that I said "as an adult" I understand it but a child will not. I can also assure you that since other parents have complained about this child and nothing has been done that they too will not be happy when their kids come home and tell them over and over how S got chosen for XYZ and they were listening and behaving and did not. That may sound terrible but it is true.

I feel bad for S but I still think the Admin is dropping the ball here. The child may not have ASD. Maybe he has something else going on. For four years the teachers have been saying something isn't quite right and the parents refuse to do anything. That is not helpful for the child, the teachers, or the other children in the class. It is a lose lose situation.

 

[Nik's Mom]

Wow! I'm so sorry to the op that you are experiencing these problems. I feel for "S" and the rest of your students as well. It's a very sad situation.

I have 2 autistic sons, so I could give you plenty of suggestions. Unfortunately, without an IEP, diagnosis and parental support, those suggestions wouldn't do you any good. When we lived in California, there were no funds for our sons to have their own paraprofessional in the class. So special needs kids were placed in a class together. Now that we live in Kansas, they have a paraprofessional, but they are taken out of the mainstream class when they become overwhelmed or need a break. It sounds like that is what your student needs.

It really saddens me to see that these parents are in such denial. They are causing a lot of harm to their child. I can only imagine how "S" would have made progress if he had been given the services that he needed a lot sooner. It really breaks my heart.

With that said. I would really push this topic with the principal. Someone needs to intervene on behalf of this child. It makes me sick to think where he will end up in the future. He needs interventions in place to help him.

My youngest often asked for hugs from teachers while at school. They ordered him a pressure vest and that cut out the need for hugs. The desire for hugs was a sensory thing for my son. But that pressure vest would have to be approved by the parents, so it sounds like that won't be happening.

I'd definitely talk to your principal further. You need support ASAP, or that child needs to be placed in a special needs class.

 

[Ember]

What an awful situation, for both you and the student (not to mention the rest of the class).

I would recommend getting a copy of this book. When DS was mainstreamed, we sent a copy in to the school for everyone who worked with him to read. We also have the parents' version and it is very helpful.

See if you can create a picture calendar for S's desk, so that S knows what will be happening each day. Then, give S lots of warning about transitions. Transitions are really hard.

Put S at the end of the line when having to walk in the halls.

Put a big square out of masking tape around his desk area on the floor. explain that you understand that he cannot always sit still, but he needs to stay in his area.

See if you can find a fidgit for him (a glob of silly putty, stiff clay, etc.) that he can manipulate while working.

Give jobs, especially heavy work jobs, before S needs to stay on task for a period of time. Take a phone book to the office, carry a heavy box out into the hall, etc.

Look online for some social stories you can review with S, about taking turns, waiting, etc.

Allow him to bring his chair to near the carpet during circle time, but not have him sit in the group. It is overwhelming to be that close to other kids.

Ignore some of the behaviors. S cannot help them. Pick your battles and focus on one behavior change at a time. Make the goal easy for him to understand. "Be respectful" (using a goal from DS's old school) is too vague and gray for a spectrum kid to understand. DS could recite the rules back to anyone, but truly had no idea what they meant.

Don't let the other kids bully him or laugh at him because of his behaviors (including meltdowns). It can really cause long term damage.

HTH!

This is very helpful, thank you. Lots of other great suggestions, too, that I can try to implement without too much disruption to the rest of the day. Thank you.

DS12 is an Aspie toucher. He does it because he craves human contact; it is NOT a sexually motivated thing, and he would be hugely shocked at the suggestion that it might be.

Touchers tend to touch girls because until they get older, girls tend to tolerate casual touch without issue as long as it is not on the order of grabbing. Aspie boys who crave human touch learn very early on that touching other boys even in the slightest ways will get them called nasty names and hit, so they are drawn to girls, who tend not to get overtly angry over it.

Punishing an AS toucher will not really help much; they crave human contact so badly that it is almost like punishing them for breathing. They need to be redirected and given some other way to satisfy that need to connect with other people.

Most touchers never really stop; they just eventually learn to find appropriate avenues to get what they want. Very often an adolescent Aspie boy will become that boy that everyone "thinks" is gay but who has one close female friend and is never seen to date anyone. Relationships like those are often filled with platonic touching -- lots of hugs and finger flicks and such. As adults, Aspie men who can manage long-term relationships tend to be very cuddly sorts.

The touching that S wants to do is NOT sexual in nature. However, it does make the child being touched uncomfortable.

OP, you have NO RIGHT to try and Dx autism. Not your job, nor your expertise. And a bunch of people in the school system observing and "agreeing" that a child is "on the spectrum" is what got us into this mess of children being fraudulently labeled when they may have something else going on that needs particular treatment and support. Parents all over the country are starting to push back and rebel at this sort of school-based autism "epidemic."

. . .

Schools don't do themselves any favors with their relentless pushing for ASD labels to be put on kids. It's all about the school and the politics and money behind the label, and not about the individual child's needs. Your administration should be supporting you and this child. It is failing both of you miserably.

I agree that parents and administration are failing. However, this won't help me get through the days. I appreciate that you feel I shouldn't be trying to label this child, but something is very wrong here and without a label there is no help to be had - there is only me. I can't access aides, therapists, special programming, nothing. I can't even legally modify the curriculum to be where S needs it. There has to be funding to access services and right now, with no label, there is nothing. This is hugely unfair to this student. He should not be constantly suspended and then expelled, he should be helped. I am fighting for my student, not against him.

I am not trying to diagnose S. But with no other options and the parental refusal to test, I'm doing the best I can to deal with this situation. From observation by OT's, our school councilor, and four other specialists this is the best I've got. I have to go with what it looks like because otherwise I can't do anything to help. It's either try to come up with workable solutions or ignore both the needs of S and everyone else in my classroom. What would you have me do?

edit: I wanted to add that I would be happy to be wrong and find out that it's not ASD. I would gladly make adaptions to help S and would be thrilled to know what would work best. I have absolutely no personal investment or incentive to have S be autistic rather than have something else that is interfering with learning - because something is. But without proper testing, I'm between a rock and a hard place.

 

[hanutedmansionmomma]

sped teacher here. former classroom teacher.

I would continue to document, and bring S up to your "Child Study" Team or whatever your building calls it. Do you have a team in your building? Usually consists of sped teachers, Speech/Language, OT, Counselor, nurse, psych, etc...They should be able to give you suggestions. Seek out the sped folks in your building and have them observe and help you.

So many folks want an IEP for their little friends and then find out if they're on grade level with many subjects the sped services would look like classroom accommodations anyway, which you can do (a lot of work! I know!) without an IEP for anyone, really.

The laws now state there need to be interventions in place that show no success (with those interventions) before sped can be considered anyway.

Are you a member of the Teacher Association? NEA? Ask your representatives what you can do and how they can help you.

I have been in your shoes! I feel for you and little S!! Good luck!!

 

[dimimi]

Since he is a first grader, there is plenty of time to help this child. He will become a more successful part of society with early intervention. You have been given some great ideas to help him in the classroom. However, I think the parents will not be open to testing until they have to. The principal must follow your school's behavior guidelines. Once this child is suspended numerous times, the parents will agree to testing. Your school should have a policy that the child cannot return to school without a conference with the parents and administrators. I have been a special education teacher for a long time and unfortunately this is sometimes the only thing that works.

If the child does something that if a "typical" child did, they would be sent to the office...send this child to the office. It may be inappropriate for the child now, but in the long run, the child will be identified and will be able to get the help he needs. Just imagine this child in Middle School without help.

Good Luck!

 

[dimimi]

sped teacher here. former classroom teacher.

I would continue to document, and bring S up to your "Child Study" Team or whatever your building calls it. Do you have a team in your building? Usually consists of sped teachers, Speech/Language, OT, Counselor, nurse, psych, etc...They should be able to give you suggestions. Seek out the sped folks in your building and have them observe and help you.

So many folks want an IEP for their little friends and then find out if they're on grade level with many subjects the sped services would look like classroom accommodations anyway, which you can do (a lot of work! I know!) without an IEP for anyone, really.

The laws now state there need to be interventions in place that show no success (with those interventions) before sped can be considered anyway.

Are you a member of the Teacher Association? NEA? Ask your representatives what you can do and how they can help you.

I have been in your shoes! I feel for you and little S!! Good luck!!

I agree! I guess I just assumed a Child Study would have been done by now. Also, I agree, once a parent sees that MANY kids in first grade get help for something...speech, reading, OT/PT, etc., they may be more apt to agree. Also, make sure the parent knows his advanced reading level could be enhanced in the special education program since he will have more individualized instruction.

 

[Rora]

DS12 is an Aspie toucher. He does it because he craves human contact; it is NOT a sexually motivated thing, and he would be hugely shocked at the suggestion that it might be.

Touchers tend to touch girls because until they get older, girls tend to tolerate casual touch without issue as long as it is not on the order of grabbing. Aspie boys who crave human touch learn very early on that touching other boys even in the slightest ways will get them called nasty names and hit, so they are drawn to girls, who tend not to get overtly angry over it.

Punishing an AS toucher will not really help much; they crave human contact so badly that it is almost like punishing them for breathing. They need to be redirected and given some other way to satisfy that need to connect with other people.

Most touchers never really stop; they just eventually learn to find appropriate avenues to get what they want. Very often an adolescent Aspie boy will become that boy that everyone "thinks" is gay but who has one close female friend and is never seen to date anyone. Relationships like those are often filled with platonic touching -- lots of hugs and finger flicks and such. As adults, Aspie men who can manage long-term relationships tend to be very cuddly sorts.

I totally get this but I have to agree with Mouse House Mama.. Even as a middle schooler I knew that this touching wasn't sexually driven but it still made me incredibly uncomfortable. I wasn't asking for him to be punished but for the teacher to get me OUT of that situation. Again, while I understand it's harmless, nevertheless, it upset me.

While I totally understand what you are saying it still makes the touchee (is that even a word?) uncomfortable and they shouldn't have to feel that way. I agree that the toucher needs to find other outlets so they can cope.

Agreed. Everyone has the right to personal space and the right to say they feel uncomfortable.

 

[jodifla]

I agree that parents and administration are failing. However, this won't help me get through the days. I appreciate that you feel I shouldn't be trying to label this child, but something is very wrong here and without a label there is no help to be had - there is only me. I can't access aides, therapists, special programming, nothing. I can't even legally modify the curriculum to be where S needs it. There has to be funding to access services and right now, with no label, there is nothing. This is hugely unfair to this student. He should not be constantly suspended and then expelled, he should be helped. I am fighting for my student, not against him.

I am not trying to diagnose S. But with no other options and the parental refusal to test, I'm doing the best I can to deal with this situation. From observation by OT's, our school councilor, and four other specialists this is the best I've got. I have to go with what it looks like because otherwise I can't do anything to help. It's either try to come up with workable solutions or ignore both the needs of S and everyone else in my classroom. What would you have me do?

edit: I wanted to add that I would be happy to be wrong and find out that it's not ASD. I would gladly make adaptions to help S and would be thrilled to know what would work best. I have absolutely no personal investment or incentive to have S be autistic rather than have something else that is interfering with learning - because something is. But without proper testing, I'm between a rock and a hard place.

I agree, you are in a terrible spot! And the child, and his classmates.

Labels shouldn't drive the services, however (at least in the U.S.) Needs drive the services.

Where on earth is the social worker in your school?? It is just shocking that after these circumstances the team can't put something in place at least provisionally.

 

[jodifla]

It is not old fashioned thinking. It is the way a child thinks. This child has not been diagnosed as special needs. This child by all accounts has been labeled typical. At this point he is not getting a differentiated curriculum.

If the only thing the class sees is this child misbehaving then in the eyes of a 6 year old this child is being rewarded for their behavior by being chosen to help the teacher or run errands etc. If you read my post you would see that I said "as an adult" I understand it but a child will not. I can also assure you that since other parents have complained about this child and nothing has been done that they too will not be happy when their kids come home and tell them over and over how S got chosen for XYZ and they were listening and behaving and did not. That may sound terrible but it is true.

I feel bad for S but I still think the Admin is dropping the ball here. The child may not have ASD. Maybe he has something else going on. For four years the teachers have been saying something isn't quite right and the parents refuse to do anything. That is not helpful for the child, the teachers, or the other children in the class. It is a lose lose situation.

No one knows in a classroom who has IEPs. That process is invisible to children. So classmates just have to get used to the idea that some kids are going to be doing different things at different times and for different reasons.

I agree with you -- the child, his classmates and the teacher are being put in a horrible position here.