If you had to buy Direct, which resort to choose

[HIRyeDVC]

While the RIV chart is higher, I don't get the ongoing discussion that RIV dues are somehow unusually high. They were at launch, but that was well known due to RIV being the first DVC resort to have the wage increases for cast members (or so they claimed anyway). Since then, RIV has increased in dues at a lower rate than nearly every other resort. Their 2021 to 2022 dues change was 0.01%.

CCV 22' - $7.60/pt
BLT 22' - $7.08/pt
RIV 22' - $8.38/pt

Is $8.30 higher than $7.60? Yeah obviously. But it's hardly some monumental gap, and other resorts that are recommended like AKV are $8.23/pt, near as makes no difference identical to RIV. Boulder Ridge is $8.15, OKW is $8.80.

Yeah if you own 500 points then the BLT to RIV dues gap is significant, no doubt. But for a 150 point or so contract, RIV vs CCV is $117 difference. Cheaper is cheaper I guess, but that gap is probably going to keep narrowing. Maybe the $100-300 difference (depending on resort and number of points, considering moderate point ownership) is enough, I would just be surprised to see that as a high concern area when being critical of RIV.

my concern is for the high dues AND the high points chart. I agree with you that at 150 points, the difference isn't as much as someone who might own 300. But the high points chart preclude you from being able to book bigger sized rooms as opposed to AKV, you have a lot more options. And I also think Disney is purposely keeping the dues hikes at bay for Riviera to not discourage people from buying, especially before VGF2 and DLT goes on sale. Don't get me wrong. I love Riviera and think it's a beautiful resort. I look forward to using my direct points to stay there one day. And I'd much rather own RR than Aulani. I just don't know why the dues started so high when it's just a tower. Towers are supposed to have less maintenance than sprawling resorts like OKW and SSR.

 

[J-Dog]

my concern is for the high dues AND the high points chart. I agree with you that at 150 points, the difference isn't as much as someone who might own 300. But the high points chart preclude you from being able to book bigger sized rooms as opposed to AKV, you have a lot more options. And I also think Disney is purposely keeping the dues hikes at bay for Riviera to not discourage people from buying, especially before VGF2 and DLT goes on sale. Don't get me wrong. I love Riviera and think it's a beautiful resort. I look forward to using my direct points to stay there one day. And I'd much rather own RR than Aulani. I just don't know why the dues started so high when it's just a tower. Towers are supposed to have less maintenance than sprawling resorts like OKW and SSR.

I am not a lawyer, but I think that artificially keeping the dues low for marketing purposes and/or to sell points is likely to be illegal, since that has nothing to do with operating expenses. If they are doing that, and whether or not anyone calls them out on it, however, is a different story

 

[BamaGuy44]

I am not a lawyer, but I think that artificially keeping the dues low for marketing purposes and/or to sell points is likely to be illegal, since that has nothing to do with operating expenses. If they are doing that, and whether or not anyone calls them out on it, however, is a different story

I'm not a lawyer OR an accountant, but it seems like artificially keeping the dues low vs operating expenses without making it blatantly obvious to anyone looking at the published financials, would require some serious book cooking.

 

[Sandisw]

my concern is for the high dues AND the high points chart. I agree with you that at 150 points, the difference isn't as much as someone who might own 300. But the high points chart preclude you from being able to book bigger sized rooms as opposed to AKV, you have a lot more options. And I also think Disney is purposely keeping the dues hikes at bay for Riviera to not discourage people from buying, especially before VGF2 and DLT goes on sale. Don't get me wrong. I love Riviera and think it's a beautiful resort. I look forward to using my direct points to stay there one day. And I'd much rather own RR than Aulani. I just don't know why the dues started so high when it's just a tower. Towers are supposed to have less maintenance than sprawling resorts like OKW and SSR.

When a resort opens, it is sometimes hard to completely determine the operating budget. One of the biggest pieces was the Skyliner as costs for that could not really be known to a degree.

Also, things change as more points are declared and I believe that helps new resorts maintain smaller increases during those first years when on sale.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I'm not a lawyer OR an accountant, but it seems like artificially keeping the dues low vs operating expenses without making it blatantly obvious to anyone looking at the published financials, would require some serious book cooking.

I fully acknowledge that I'm speculating. But it's not like Disney has never intentionally lied about dues rates to improve DVC sales. After what happened after the Aulani fiasco, it's hard to imagine them making that mistake again, which is probably why they decided to estimate it higher than normal. I'm not here to bash on Riviera. I'm only pointing out the positives and negatives to the OP. I think we can all agree that Riviera is on the higher side in terms of points chart and dues. And I can agree with you that other resorts may catch up with Riviera in time if Riviera's dues remain stable, which isn't guaranteed.

 

[Vulnox]

I fully acknowledge that I'm speculating. But it's not like Disney has never intentionally lied about dues rates to improve DVC sales. After what happened after the Aulani fiasco, it's hard to imagine them making that mistake again, which is probably why they decided to estimate it higher than normal. I'm not here to bash on Riviera. I'm only pointing out the positives and negatives to the OP. I think we can all agree that Riviera is on the higher side in terms of points chart and dues. And I can agree with you that other resorts may catch up with Riviera in time if Riviera's dues remain stable, which isn't guaranteed.

Right, but it isn't guaranteed it won't remain stable and others will catch up. The only thing I find frustrating with these discussions is how often people seem to think the worst of the resorts they aren't interested in, but don't give that same possibility to the others. The dues, for 2022, aren't significantly higher than the other resorts discussed. We also aren't talking about identical resorts just in different locations, RIV has facilities some others don't have like the Skyliner which will add to dues. I imagine AKV is as high as it is because of the Savannah and other amenities not found at the other resorts. Just saying, RIV has higher dues, is not being entirely open. BLT has lower dues but has easier park access, but park access doesn't determine dues on its own (as far as I have ever heard anyway). So if you are going to discuss dues, you have to also discuss the advantages that come along with a resort that has extra amenities that are tied to higher dues. AKV has the animals and ambiance, Riviera has the skyliner and probably a few other items.

The idea that Disney may be keeping dues held low to encourage sales is logically wiped out by the fact that dues started high at Riviera compared to other resorts. Disney is also still capped on how much they can increase dues each year, so them letting it lag behind doesn't mean they have a 10% raise coming in a single year sometime soon. If Disney thought dues alone were an issue, they wouldn't have introduced RIV with a much higher dues cost than a majority of resorts back in 2019. Since 2019 the playing field has evened out, and speculating that Riviera could shoot up, or claiming it won't, is just speculation and doesn't help someone thinking about buying.

I also acknowledged that RIV point charts are higher, that is a legitimate concern and why I even suggested in this thread that 150 points may be tight for RIV. But people that stay at RIV also have said rooms are better arranged and sized compared to other resorts, 1BR isn't equal to 1BR just because they have the same name. So point charts alone aren't a good reason to just wave away a resort, it should just be a consideration depending on your priorities. If all you care about is the most beds for the least points (and by extension money), then avoid RIV, 100%. If you want nicer rooms with in some cases more space than some other resorts with lower point charts, then RIV may be worth the upgrade.

Again, the problem with just saying Point Chart and Dues is it isn't an honest way of evaluating resorts. I am not saying in this that Riviera completely earns its higher chart compared to all resorts with lower charts, that would require me to defend Disney as if they are benevolent in their intentions when it comes to extracting money from potential buyers, they aren't. My entire post was just saying that making blanket comparisons based only on point charts and dues doesn't really help, unless their stated goal is they want the cheapest place with the most beds. Before someone says "Avoid Riviera, their point charts are high and so are dues!", they should first ask, what are you expecting from the resort.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Right, but it isn't guaranteed it won't remain stable and others will catch up. The only thing I find frustrating with these discussions is how often people seem to think the worst of the resorts they aren't interested in, but don't give that same possibility to the others. The dues, for 2022, aren't significantly higher than the other resorts discussed. We also aren't talking about identical resorts just in different locations, RIV has facilities some others don't have like the Skyliner which will add to dues. I imagine AKV is as high as it is because of the Savannah and other amenities not found at the other resorts. Just saying, RIV has higher dues, is not being entirely open. BLT has lower dues but has easier park access, but park access doesn't determine dues on its own (as far as I have ever heard anyway). So if you are going to discuss dues, you have to also discuss the advantages that come along with a resort that has extra amenities that are tied to higher dues. AKV has the animals and ambiance, Riviera has the skyliner and probably a few other items.

The idea that Disney may be keeping dues held low to encourage sales is logically wiped out by the fact that dues started high at Riviera compared to other resorts. Disney is also still capped on how much they can increase dues each year, so them letting it lag behind doesn't mean they have a 10% raise coming in a single year sometime soon. If Disney thought dues alone were an issue, they wouldn't have introduced RIV with a much higher dues cost than a majority of resorts back in 2019. Since 2019 the playing field has evened out, and speculating that Riviera could shoot up, or claiming it won't, is just speculation and doesn't help someone thinking about buying.

I also acknowledged that RIV point charts are higher, that is a legitimate concern and why I even suggested in this thread that 150 points may be tight for RIV. But people that stay at RIV also have said rooms are better arranged and sized compared to other resorts, 1BR isn't equal to 1BR just because they have the same name. So point charts alone aren't a good reason to just wave away a resort, it should just be a consideration depending on your priorities. If all you care about is the most beds for the least points (and by extension money), then avoid RIV, 100%. If you want nicer rooms with in some cases more space than some other resorts with lower point charts, then RIV may be worth the upgrade.

Again, the problem with just saying Point Chart and Dues is it isn't an honest way of evaluating resorts. I am not saying in this that Riviera completely earns its higher chart compared to all resorts with lower charts, that would require me to defend Disney as if they are benevolent in their intentions when it comes to extracting money from potential buyers, they aren't. My entire post was just saying that making blanket comparisons based only on point charts and dues doesn't really help, unless their stated goal is they want the cheapest place with the most beds. Before someone says "Avoid Riviera, their point charts are high and so are dues!", they should first ask, what are you expecting from the resort.

I NEVER said the high points chart and dues was the ONLY problem. I said it was my BIGGEST problem. And I NEVER told the OP to "avoid Riviera." If you read my original post, I actually recommended to the OP to go with Riviera. But it seems like I've riled up the Riviera owner's hornet's nest on this board. And I totally understand that Riviera owners have become well versed in defending their purchases. I say again, I AM NOT HERE TO BASH ON RIVIERA. I'm merely pointing out the positives AND negatives of Riviera AND AKL, which was the original question posed by the OP.

 

[nuhusky123]

One thing about riv that stopped me from buying there is the skyliner

my wife hates heights and the fact the sky liner stops operating 8n bad weather was the show stopper for me

didnt help that every now and again the fire dept has to rescue people stranded in there. That put my wife over the edge. Love the rooms but transportation from riv was the deal breaker

 

[Vulnox]

I NEVER said the high points chart and dues was the ONLY problem. I said it was my BIGGEST problem. And I NEVER told the OP to "avoid Riviera." If you read my original post, I actually recommended to the OP to go with Riviera. But it seems like I've riled up the Riviera owner's hornet's nest on this board. And I totally understand that Riviera owners have become well versed in defending their purchases. I say again, I AM NOT HERE TO BASH ON RIVIERA. I'm merely pointing out the positives AND negatives of Riviera AND AKL, which was the original question posed by the OP.

Fine, I figured this would get here eventually. It isn't about what was said, as long as it can be waived away as someone only saying it because they own there. I didn't say your only problem was points chart or dues, so I didn't assume anything. But in your comment that I responded to, you only really brought that up as a major sticking point for the resort so I don't know what else you want me to respond to. You did mention it isn't walking distance to the park, but either is AKV, so I didn't take from it that it was an issue.

We can drop it, I was just trying to have a discussion but since we have already turned to the dismissing of others comments simply because they bought a specific resort, it's obvious this is at an end. I only recently bought RIV, and I evaluated a lot of resorts. I hated paying a premium compared to what I could get at other resorts from a cost perspective, but after seeing some others and using the Skyliner on our visit a couple years ago, it felt worth it. I battled (and still do) with the point charts and dues. But it is still possible to like the place, and to find value at the higher costs. I have no interest in changing your mind about your biggest issues with it, and I am not going to defend Riviera or Disney, as I said in the comment you replied to before saying I only say anything to defend my purchase, which was odd.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Fine, I figured this would get here eventually. It isn't about what was said, as long as it can be waived away as someone only saying it because they own there. I didn't say your only problem was points chart or dues, so I didn't assume anything. But in your comment that I responded to, you only really brought that up as a major sticking point for the resort so I don't know what else you want me to respond to. You did mention it isn't walking distance to the park, but either is AKV, so I didn't take from it that it was an issue.

We can drop it, I was just trying to have a discussion but since we have already turned to the dismissing of others comments simply because they bought a specific resort, it's obvious this is at an end. I only recently bought RIV, and I evaluated a lot of resorts. I hated paying a premium compared to what I could get at other resorts from a cost perspective, but after seeing some others and using the Skyliner on our visit a couple years ago, it felt worth it. I battled (and still do) with the point charts and dues. But it is still possible to like the place, and to find value at the higher costs. I have no interest in changing your mind about your biggest issues with it, and I am not going to defend Riviera or Disney, as I said in the comment you replied to before saying I only say anything to defend my purchase, which was odd.

You don't haveto change my mind about anything. Like I said before, I think Riviera is one of the most beautiful DVC resorts out there and I look forward to staying there. I'm not sure what more I can say to express my admiration for the resort other than the obvious. I think we ALL pay a premium, when we buy direct, no matter the resort we buy into. And no resort is perfect. In the past, it too didn't sit well with me when others would knock my home resorts. And they all pointed out legitimate gripes. But I've come to accept that my purchase into CCV, BLT, and VGC were based on personal preferences, which differs with every one of us. I apologize if my tone sounded offensive and take back my comment about Riviera owners "defending" their purchases. In a way, I think we all do on these boards, which is unfortunate. I think you made a great decision on your purchase and wish you many happy memories I'm sure you'll make in you new home resort. I truly am happy for you and wish you the best during the holidays. Aloha.

 

[Blizzyblizz]

Looking to buy 150 points direct. I just passed ROFR recently for my first purchase recently (Copper Creek), but I must say, the whole waiting game is no fun. I think the next set of points might be through the direct route. Something about AKL resonates with me, but Riviera also looks very nice. AK obviously has 13 less years, but Riviera has the restrictions for resale. I'm 44 with a 6 year old and a 3 year old. Any advice from all the savvy people on this board.

I'd suggest giving resale another chance. It's not fun to wait a couple months, but the +33% extra points you get (which translates to 33% more nights for years and years to come) will be worth it.

As for which resort, whether resale or direct, I would recommend going for whichever one gets you points the cheapest and most efficient way possible...typically either SSR or AUL. Personally, I think paying extra to own at a particular resort is overrated at most places because you can typically always get a room at 7 months if you're on top of things. I would only buy a more expensive resort if it was a truly hard to book one that I wanted to stay at over and over, like VGF or VGC.

 

[iheartglaciers]

BTW love all your post on the boards. Super helpful, so thank you for that. I know you're not an AKL fan, but I know you're pretty objective too, is AKL better for non park visit stays than Riviera.

I really like AKL for non-park days because of the animals, good food options, and activities. Pre-covid (and I assume they'll bring a lot of this back eventually), they had a lot of activities throughout the day like animal education ones, face painting, cookie decorating, and tours of the art and resurants. We also loved meeting the cultural exchange CMs. But the resort feels small and isolated, so I could see this getting old after a couple days (I always split stay, so I'm not usually at any one resort for too long). Yes, it's bus only to get everywhere, but I found the bus service to be really good at AKL (but that was pre-covid).

I wouldn't say AKL is better than Riviera for non-park days, it's just different. Riviera's grounds and food options are also great for non-park days. Plus you have Carribean Beach right there, and easy access to the Boardwalk and all of the additional food and entertainment options there. Plus the Skyliner, which you can ride for fun on a non-park day!

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

I was just in a similar situation last month. I really wanted to buy AKV, but ultimately decided on RIV.

I love AKV, but I was worried that the theming would eventually not "make-up" for the distance from everything. Also, as mentioned by PP above, AKV is probably the third-easiest resort to book at 7 months. So it's less essential as a home resort advantage.

We love RIV's less "in your face" theming - assuming it will be less likely to get boring and played-out over decades of visits. And we love the understated "fanciness". We love the fact that RIV is on the skyliner. But mostly for us, we went with RIV for the guaranteed week, that is not available at AKV. We have not even used our week yet but it's already cheaper paying for our GW than paying for it in points (because our week point allotment is going up in 2023), and we never have to worry about making a reservation.

Which GW do you have?

 

[J-Dog]

Which GW do you have?

We have week 49.

 

[Lorana]

We have week 49.

I am somewhat kicking myself for not getting a FW at RIV, but we only wanted a smallish number of points there and wanted to split the contracts so that we could pass along to our boys, if they want it (and if we don't sell before then). But I have FWs at CCV, and I agree with you about the convenience and point savings now that DVC is raising the point charts in the fall.

 

[J-Dog]

I am somewhat kicking myself for not getting a FW at RIV, but we only wanted a smallish number of points there and wanted to split the contracts so that we could pass along to our boys, if they want it (and if we don't sell before then). But I have FWs at CCV, and I agree with you about the convenience and point savings now that DVC is raising the point charts in the fall.

Yes - the need to buy a big contract was probably our biggest roadblock to buying the FW. So now we are faced with resale restrictions and a large contract - both may be detriments on the resale market.

But we have no plans to sell, and the ease of the FW and the future points-savings made it worth it to us.

 

[The Jackal]

I know what you're saying, but I disagree slightly. If the intent is to buy and worry about selling again in 10 years, then yes. But the huge positive side is that you get a reasonable deal for 2 decades of family fun and memories and experiences. That's a long time to enjoy the place before the contract expires. That's an entire generation of my family able to enjoy those 20 years. Just different ways to view it....

You could buy BWV resale at a cheaper price and save thousands. BWC is already one of the most expense resorts to stay at per point when buying at resale prices, direct makes it even worse. Buying resale around $138 per point your looking at almost $15 per point per year. Let’s say direct is $180 pp makes it around $17.08 per point per year. You are almost better off renting from an owner than direct prices. Seen some for rent on this site for $18 pp.

 

[sethschroeder]

Epcot is where we want to be and we got RIV for $155/point direct.

Otherwise I would likely go with AKV or OKW (although with increasing MFs I am not so sure).

 

[swaysui]

Epcot is where we want to be and we got RIV for $155/point direct.

Otherwise I would likely go with AKV or OKW (although with increasing MFs I am not so sure).

Wow what a deal for Riv!

 

[DisWeaver]

Looking to buy 150 points direct. I just passed ROFR recently for my first purchase recently (Copper Creek), but I must say, the whole waiting game is no fun. I think the next set of points might be through the direct route. Something about AKL resonates with me, but Riviera also looks very nice. AK obviously has 13 less years, but Riviera has the restrictions for resale. I'm 44 with a 6 year old and a 3 year old. Any advice from all the savvy people on this board.

I did the same thing, passed ROFR but wanted additional points and immediate portal access. I decided on OKW, since direct had the later date, was cheaper, and I’m not “in love” with any one location.