If the flattening isn't working is it time to face reality?

I guess I mean if even with all these measures we are still overwhelming the hospitals, then we have lost that battle right? At that point go after herd immunity to stop the spread. All while locking up the elderly.
Since 40 percent of those being hospitalized are between the ages of 20 to 45, that probably isn't a great idea.
 
I have read specifics for many areas stay at home orders. Most do include waivers for the minimal essential personnel required to maintain safe working environments for shut down businesses and industries. From your description, it sounds as if DH and assistant would qualify as essential personnel. For example, in NYC, doormen are essential. At first I was like...wut...then I remembered. There are buildings in NYC where residents couldn’t access the front door or other necessary building areas without a doorman.

Yeah, his boss is trying to make that argument. Corporate is concerned because the governor has promised stiff fines against violators, but I hope they'll ultimately defer to her since she manages all their plants state-wide and is only trying to keep two in-person employees to cover those 4 (will be 3 after April 1, due to a scheduled closure) facilities. She's arguing that without some minimal staff on site, a roof leak or a broken pipe or an electrical fault (all of which DH has been called in after hours for at various times this winter) could go undetected long enough to cause millions of dollars in damage to the plant and equipment.
 

Since 40 percent of those being hospitalized are between the ages of 20 to 45, that probably isn't a great idea.
Exposing people to corona and overwhelming hospitals for some sort of herd immunity that we don't even know exists is an idea that makes the anti vaxxer idea of deliberately exposing kids to measles look wise.
 
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We just found out we are now being ordered to stay at home except for food/emergencies/exercise. Our governor said this will be enforced.
 
We just found out we are now being ordered to stay at home except for food/emergencies/exercise. Our governor said this will be enforced.

State police are enforcing closing businesses. I haven't seen anything saying Pennsylvanians need to shelter in place. Is this new (like in the last hour)? Or our you just talking about closing all non-essential businesses?
 
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Ok, maybe I should specify: How do we know if the numbers we are see reported are new cases since people started staying home? Median incubation period is 5 days (source), right? How long does it take to recover if untreated? Doesn't it depend on the individual?

So, the people who are tested today and are reported today... when did they get sick?

I mean, heck, West Virginia only started testing like 5 days ago, right?
My state, Massachusetts, isn't posting very high numbers but they aren't testing very aggressively. The news was just bragging about the new Drive In Testing facilities opening up, except you have to have been either 1.In China/Italy/South Korea within the past 3 weeks or in direct contact with someone with an active diagnosis 2.) Have both a fever AND a cough 3.) Have a prescription from your PCP.

Well, a lot of people aren't having both a cough and a fever. Some people are starting with diarrhea. Some people have chills. Some people have a low grade temp for a few days, which subsides. Some people have shortness of breath with no cough. And a lot of people have no Primary Care Physician, so they can't get a prescription for testing. And if you never test anyone and no one gets a diagnosis, you have sick people with mild symptoms walking around in the community, infecting others. My husband is an ER doc and he has been flooded with panicked people with no symptoms showing up to get testing, just to clear their minds. They are using up all their PPE on testing, not treatment.

I have been sick for about 5 days. My doctor's office said they don't do testing, it sounds like Covid-19 but since my symptoms were mild, just stay home, yada, yada, yada. If my shortness of breath progresses to respiratory failure, go to the ER. Well, wouldn't it be nice for me to know for sure? I have 3 kids. My husband will be going back to the hospital in a few days. Meanwhile people are so over-worked by the constant inflammatory news, that people are telling me how I ashamed I should be of myself for getting exposed, accusing me of trying to murder my neighbors by getting my mail with a fever.

So, we won't even know about flattening unless testing is applied in a consistent manner across the board.
 
If we let people return to work, we will overwhelm the healthcare system. They’ll have insurance, but there might not be a bed for them. If we don’t let them return to work, they might get laid off. They won’t have health insurance, so if they get it a bad case of this virus, they’re screwed.

The best option is to nationalize healthcare and let people ride this out at home. Send them money, so they can buy food. And let them defer their debt until we’re over the hump. Let the government cover the lenders, so they can continue to operate through the deferment period. That’s my solution.

The alternative is that we’re just screwed.
 
Ok, maybe I should specify: How do we know if the numbers we are see reported are new cases since people started staying home? Median incubation period is 5 days (source), right? How long does it take to recover if untreated? Doesn't it depend on the individual?

So, the people who are tested today and are reported today... when did they get sick?

I mean, heck, West Virginia only started testing like 5 days ago, right?
A lot of information about cases is actually become the problem mostly because of patient privacy, who is doing the testing and reporting (CDC vs state), who is being tested (only those needing hospitalization vs wider qualifications), how many tests a particular place has, etc.

The local news at times has reported cases with delay so a "new" case added to the numbers for the state could actually be someone who tested days and days ago as positive.

On March 12th, early on in our number of cases for my state, for instance the news reported on 3 men who went to the same conference in FL and came back to our state. The conference was in late February, they came back to our state and then started feeling ill. But critical information is missing such as what are the dates for the conference, when did they arrive back in our state, when was the test administered, etc. To me it was really important to know there because the incubation period was listed up to 14 days so knowing these dates seemed prudent to tell the public. Now that was early on but it's not as if that scenario isn't playing out with other cases too.
 
State police are enforcing closing businesses. I haven't seen anything saying Pennsylvanians need to shelter in place. Is this new (like in the last hour)? Or our you just talking about closing all non-essential businesses?

If all non-essential businesses are closed, where are people going if not sheltering in place?

I'm a little confused why people need to basically be literally led by the hand to figure out what they should be doing right now. If everywhere people go is now closed except for the things people need to survive, it means they don't want people going anywhere!
 
State police are enforcing closing businesses. I haven't seen anything saying Pennsylvanians need to shelter in place. Is this new (like in the last hour)? Or our you just talking about closing all non-essential businesses?

The governor is supposed to announce it at 2pm. It’s on my local news (6abc) website. I’m in Montgomery county, one of the counties that will be under the order.
 
Italy, Spain, Iran, China all have nationalized healthcare. Just sayin'.
They also misjudged the severity of the situation and waited too long to take proactive measures. That part isn’t a healthcare issue, it's the thing we all have in common (although Iran's situation is another level).
 
Ok, maybe I should specify: How do we know if the numbers we are see reported are new cases since people started staying home? Median incubation period is 5 days (source), right? How long does it take to recover if untreated? Doesn't it depend on the individual?

So, the people who are tested today and are reported today... when did they get sick?

I mean, heck, West Virginia only started testing like 5 days ago, right?
Here in Massachusetts the tests are taking several days. The wife of my husbands coworker (different location than him) just got tested Saturday and was told results would be about 5days.
 
I mean, you've got a point. I mean, you could. like, got for a walk and stuff.
Massachusetts Governor just gave a stay at home advisory today and put out a list of essential businesses. I was very surprised how long it was. It seems like the only ones that are being suggested to stay home are small business owners. Seems like every other industry under the sun was considered essential. So I’m not sure how many will actually be staying home after all.
 
If all non-essential businesses are closed, where are people going if not sheltering in place?

I'm a little confused why people need to basically be literally led by the hand to figure out what they should be doing right now. If everywhere people go is now closed except for the things people need to survive, it means they don't want people going anywhere!

You know those warnings on appliances, say a hairdryer, that say do not use while sleeping? They are on there because at some point someone or multiple someones did that resulting in damage or injury.

Our governor has not yet called for a shelter in place, but as of 8PM tonight all non essential retail is closing. Bars, restaurants, gyms, salons, etc. were all closed last week. They are using the #HealthyatHome to keep from making it sound so bad I think.

Like you I wonder why anyone would be out now-where else is there to go?
 
Massachusetts Governor just gave a stay at home advisory today and put out a list of essential businesses. I was very surprised how long it was. It seems like the only ones that are being suggested to stay home are small business owners. Seems like every other industry under the sun was considered essential. So I’m not sure how many will actually be staying home after all.

I was just given the paper that I'm suppose to keep in my car to go back and forth to work. The list of Essential Critical Infrastructure Workforce that was provided to us by the government is very long, but I think everything on there makes sense. When looking at it you think that's a lot of people, but judging from the absence of traffic, it is a huge difference.
 













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