IF I were shopping for resale RIV…

[CVG]

You'd have to be pretty desperate or be forced to in case of a divorce disagreement, death, etc. to even go to $100 for a normal size contract.

The etc you're missing is the third D - Debt, i.e real estate prices are driven at the margin by the 3 D's - death, debt and divorce.

 

[jolynne28]

I can almost assuredly say the right price for Riv resale is not $45/pt above direct pricing. Resale prices sure can be all over the map….

I actually looked into this one and it is in fact not a typo. Wild.

 

[atthebeachclub]

I actually looked into this one and it is in fact not a typo. Wild.

May the odds be ever in their favor. lol.

 

[DanCali]

I actually looked into this one and it is in fact not a typo. Wild.

May the odds be ever in their favor. lol.

Probably not their fault. Their sales rep might have told them "Don't worry about the fine print on resale restrictions - it's such a great resort that if you decide to sell, you'll make a profit on your money"...

 

[atthebeachclub]

Probably not their fault. Their sales rep might have told them "Don't worry about the fine print on resale restrictions - it's such a great resort that if you decide to sell, you'll make a profit on your money"...

I love that at that price point I could buy myself some Grand Cal. Or maybe I just strongly prefer restricted Riviera for the same price?

In reality though, I suspect most first time direct buyers don’t know what restrictions are or even how point charts work. They just love Disney and know they want to come back often.

 

[jolynne28]

Probably not their fault. Their sales rep might have told them "Don't worry about the fine print on resale restrictions - it's such a great resort that if you decide to sell, you'll make a profit on your money"...

The broker told me the seller asked for that price, but even if your theory is correct I find it insane that they weren’t at least told by the broker what the average resale price is currently, as their other listings aren’t totally out of whack.

She asked if I wanted to make an offer. Maybe this is a “hype price” to get people intrigued. I might throw out a lowball offer just for fun.

 

[Chili327]

The broker told me the seller asked for that price, but even if your theory is correct I find it insane that they weren’t at least told by the broker what the average resale price is currently, as their other listings aren’t totally out of whack.

She asked if I wanted to make an offer. Maybe this is a “hype price” to get people intrigued. I might throw out a lowball offer just for fun.

Makes me want to throw out an insanely lowball offer!! lol

Like maybe $45/pp

 

[AstroBlasters]

The broker told me the seller asked for that price, but even if your theory is correct I find it insane that they weren’t at least told by the broker what the average resale price is currently, as their other listings aren’t totally out of whack.

She asked if I wanted to make an offer. Maybe this is a “hype price” to get people intrigued. I might throw out a lowball offer just for fun.

I think sellers are always given an estimate by the broker.

Possibly a situation where one spouse really doesn’t want to sell OR a future foreclosure situation where the seller cannot buy the contract down OR a divorce and one party is trying to establish that the contract is not worth the same as direct….

 

[Sandisw]

The broker told me the seller asked for that price, but even if your theory is correct I find it insane that they weren’t at least told by the broker what the average resale price is currently, as their other listings aren’t totally out of whack.

She asked if I wanted to make an offer. Maybe this is a “hype price” to get people intrigued. I might throw out a lowball offer just for fun.

My guess is they were and the seller made the decision to ignore the advice.

Having sold several, with different brokers, they do definitely give you a range of what has sold before helping decide on price.

Something way out of whack screams a seller who doesn’t care

 

[Chili327]

My guess is they were and the seller made the decision to ignore the advice.

Having sold several, with different brokers, they do definitely give you a range of what has sold before helping decide on price.

Something way out of whack screams a seller who doesn’t care

Definitely, a broker knows it is a waste of everyone’s time.

 

[jolynne28]

Definitely, a broker knows it is a waste of everyone’s time.

It's SUCH a waste of time!

Realtor: OK I've pulled some comps, I think we should list your house for 400K.
Seller: Cool cool....ONE MILLION DOLLARS!

And even in that scenario, there could be some random unique feature (not trying to get this thread off track but I know y'all could come up with some winners) that somehow someone would pay extra for. In the case of DVC, you pull back the curtain and...it's just points.

 

[WeIcomeHome]

Late to this thread but one thought I had on the restricted resorts is I could see Disney with a more active ROFR because people will have more incentive to buy direct even at "sold out" prices. They could easily buy points at sub $100 and sell points at whatever baseline direct pricing is (235) without incentives. If they don't jack up the sold out price I could see a very active market for direct non-restricted points which will reinforce resale prices. Once resale prices climb, DVD can raise the sold out price back up.

 

[intamin]

I'm tempted to ask the seller if they were a few days early for April Fools.

I'm surprised the broker even allows it to be listed for that much. I'm sure the broker has the right to not post a listing when it's not in good faith..

 

[Sandisw]

I'm tempted to ask the seller if they were a few days early for April Fools.

I'm surprised the broker even allows it to be listed for that much. I'm sure the broker has the right to not post a listing when it's not in good faith..

Why would the broker care? If that’s what the seller wants, then why not list it.

While unlikely, you never know what someone might buy.

Sure, it’s out of the norm…way out…and the seller will find that out.

 

[intamin]

Why would the broker care? If that’s what the seller wants, then why not list it.

While unlikely, you never know what someone might buy.

Sure, it’s out of the norm…way out…and the seller will find that out.

Eh I get that but idk personally if it were my broker company I'd be embarrassed to have that listing on there. I mean.. its higher than the direct price . But alas it's not my company so my opinion is moot. Whatever, he's doing all of us RIV owners a favor by increasing the average price of resale RIV

 

[disneylandtour]

I'm tempted to ask the seller if they were a few days early for April Fools.

I'm surprised the broker even allows it to be listed for that much. I'm sure the broker has the right to not post a listing when it's not in good faith..

I think brokers take sellers like this on, knowing the contract won't sell at X price because brokers also believe that after a month or two of no offers, the sellers will lower their price to something reasonable. Essentially it's a way of brokers increasing inventory for future use.

 

[pzw90]

Eh I get that but idk personally if it were my broker company I'd be embarrassed to have that listing on there. I mean.. its higher than the direct price . But alas it's not my company so my opinion is moot. Whatever, he's doing all of us RIV owners a favor by increasing the average price of resale RIV

Conspiracy theory: broker is putting fake listings on to skew the average on the aggregator up, making their other listings look better.
Most likely not the case

 

[Chili327]

Eh I get that but idk personally if it were my broker company I'd be embarrassed to have that listing on there. I mean.. its higher than the direct price . But alas it's not my company so my opinion is moot. Whatever, he's doing all of us RIV owners a favor by increasing the average price of resale RIV

Yea, I agree. It feels wrong, & I wouldn’t want it on my site. Makes it feel like an amateur that doesn’t know what they’re doing.

Conspiracy theory: broker is putting fake listings on to skew the average on the aggregator up, making their other listings look better.
Most likely not the case

I thought about that too, it is definitely raising the average. lol

 

[juliebee]

How does a listing way over direct prices get a one-star rating on dvcforless.com? I've seen them list other listings at a half-star. Wild.

 

[havoc315]

I have many counter-intuitive opinions....

So... here they are...

I don't think resale restrictions matter too much with DVC.... You're staying on property no matter what... I would be comfortable, for the right price, paying for a DVC RIV Resale Contract, which is a great bargain.

RIV has the unfortunate combination of a terrible points chart AND resale restrictions. For example, the room category thing was nothing but a money grab in my view, and even the standard points charts are the most aggressive for a non-monorail MK property... The skyliner does add tremendous convenience, when running, and especially for those in strollers... but back to the point....

To me, discussion about point charts misses the point. It’s like saying, “I don’t like Grand Floridian because it’s more expensive than All Star Sports.”

Yes — it is more expensive. That’s no secret. They are very different resorts. The price difference is worth it for some people, not for others.

When we talk about point charts being “aggressive,” there is often an implication that it’s a “money grab”… that you’re being charge more for the same product.

But it’s not the same product. Though not a perfect 1:1 alignment, point charts correlate with cash booking rates.

More desirable resorts, larger rooms — have higher point charts.

Newer resorts tend to have higher point charts because they have bigger nicer rooms, etc.

Riviera studios are second biggest on property at 423sf, just below Poly.
In contrast, Boardwalk and Beach Club are under 360sf.
Meanwhile, Riv studios tend to typically be about 1 point per night higher than Beach Club.

So it’s not a question of an aggressive point chart. It’s a question of whether 1 point per night is worth an extra 60+ square feet, plus the other pros of Riviera (skyliner, newer resort, etc). While some may prefer to save a point, take a smaller room, but get to walk to Epcot, Stormalong bay, etc.

Boardwalk has a very “low” point chart. But that points to the fairly low appeal of the resort on the mass market. Like any WDW resort, it has its fans. But the hotel side typically has among the lowest rates of any park adjacent deluxe resort.

So, while I can use my VGF points to stay at OKW for "less money" than OKW owners can use their OKW points at VGF, RIV offers no such respite. So you need many more points to have the same vacation at RIV than you could with an unrestricted resort where - theoretically - if you wanted a 2 BR or GV you could stay somewhere like OKW or SSR where the points are more favorable.

I also think that, if it is true that that DVC owners hold their contracts on average for about 10 years, we will see many more resale contracts enter the system over time. The 11 month window will get much more aggressive I feel, since the "less desirable" resorts can't relieve the pressure of folks getting their bookings... (though I think OKW is one of the most desirable resorts personally)... Plus, at 7 months, RIV resale owners will be competing with anyone else who has direct or grandfathered points... I'd imagine 6 month availability at RIV will be quite terrible.

I tend to think the effect will be the exact opposite. Considering the number of people without the ability to trade in to Riviera, it should be a bit easier to book at 6 months than most other resorts.

I guess where I land is a resale RIV Favorite Week contract would probably be my best bet if I were buying... I'd probably buy a week I knew I could go every year, pay the extra point premium and be very happy with it for the right price....

Which I do think will continue to tank...

Which shouldn't matter, because I view the initial purchase price as a sunk cost...