IDEA question

[BeckyScott]

In the "Needs Of One" thread, someone (on page 2 or so) mentioned that because of LRE, the school can recommend a specific program but can't force it. Where exactly in IDEA is that? (Bookwormde? Someone?) I had posted a while back about the Spectrum classrooms our school district is starting, and now after some investigation I am wondering if they are really our best option. When I brought that up to the SpEd coordinator, I was told that the school board had decided to send DS to that program and "you don't have a choice". (that went over real well with my DH) And I'm sure that isn't true, but I need the exact section/number in IDEA that says so. I do have the Wrightslaw IDEA book and have read it, but couldn't find the specific law, other than the concept of LRE. The school board is saying that the Spectrum rooms are the LRE. I am hoping there is something else in IDEA.

I am not saying I don't want him in that program necessarily, but I do need to have a back-up in case they don't work as promised, to get him out of there. I am beginning to think that instead of a great new program designed to help these kids out, what is really happening is that it's a great way for the school district to consolidate their resources, combined a bit with dumping. The school district is already set up so that the ED kids are all in one school, the hearing impaired is all at one school, the wheelchair kids are in two specific schools (while all of them are wheelchair acessible, the two newer ones are one-level and therefore just easier). I am starting to think that it's a scam. Tell the parents it's a great new program and get all cheerleader-y about it, but in reality we're going to save some big bucks in personnel.

Anyway, if someone could tell me the exact law that would prevent the school from *telling* us what school or program.... we weren't consulted on this a bit, the decision was made before we were ever informed... by a school board that hasn't so much as laid eyes on DS... and while it may turn out to be a great thing, I firmly believe in having my ducks in a row should something go wrong...

 

[Hasil72]

I'm still looking but what about 300.116 under LRE

www.wrightslaw.com/idea/law.htm

§300.116 Placements. In determining the educational placement of a child with a disability, including a preschool child
with a disability, each public agency must ensure that--
(a) The placement decision--
(1) Is made by a group of persons, including the parents, and other persons knowledgeable about the child, the meaning of the evaluation data, and the placement options; and
(2) Is made in conformity with the LRE provisions of this subpart, including §§300.114 through 300.118;
(b) The child’s placement--
(1) Is determined at least annually; IDEA 2004 Regulations Subpart B- State Eligibility
(2) Is based on the child’s IEP; and
(3) Is as close as possible to the child’s home;
(c) Unless the IEP of a child with a disability requires some other arrangement, the child is educated in the school that he or she would attend if nondisabled;
(d) In selecting the LRE, consideration is given to any potential harmful effect on the child or on the quality of services
that he or she needs; and
(e) A child with a disability is not removed from education in age-appropriate regular classrooms solely because of
needed modifications in the general education curriculum. (Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1412(a)(5))

I'm sure bookwormde will have a better idea but I'll keep looking. I'm a little late getting on the IDEA train.

 

[jodifla]

In the "Needs Of One" thread, someone (on page 2 or so) mentioned that because of LRE, the school can recommend a specific program but can't force it. Where exactly in IDEA is that? (Bookwormde? Someone?) I had posted a while back about the Spectrum classrooms our school district is starting, and now after some investigation I am wondering if they are really our best option. When I brought that up to the SpEd coordinator, I was told that the school board had decided to send DS to that program and "you don't have a choice". (that went over real well with my DH) And I'm sure that isn't true, but I need the exact section/number in IDEA that says so. I do have the Wrightslaw IDEA book and have read it, but couldn't find the specific law, other than the concept of LRE. The school board is saying that the Spectrum rooms are the LRE. I am hoping there is something else in IDEA.

I am not saying I don't want him in that program necessarily, but I do need to have a back-up in case they don't work as promised, to get him out of there. I am beginning to think that instead of a great new program designed to help these kids out, what is really happening is that it's a great way for the school district to consolidate their resources, combined a bit with dumping. The school district is already set up so that the ED kids are all in one school, the hearing impaired is all at one school, the wheelchair kids are in two specific schools (while all of them are wheelchair acessible, the two newer ones are one-level and therefore just easier). I am starting to think that it's a scam. Tell the parents it's a great new program and get all cheerleader-y about it, but in reality we're going to save some big bucks in personnel.

Anyway, if someone could tell me the exact law that would prevent the school from *telling* us what school or program.... we weren't consulted on this a bit, the decision was made before we were ever informed... by a school board that hasn't so much as laid eyes on DS... and while it may turn out to be a great thing, I firmly believe in having my ducks in a row should something go wrong...

I'm not sure about the IDEA, but it was always my impression that they couldn't force a placement on you, but that once you were in place, it was hard as heck to get out of the placement.

You know, I wondered about this when you brought it up awhile ago. LRE for highly functioning kids normally means a traditional classroom with supports, not a separate classroom.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

LRE and inclusion is an interesting discussion. In recent years, the interpretation of LRE has meant full inclusion when possible, but that is not necessarily the case. LRE is the environment in which the child learns best essentially. Many children do very well in an inclusive classroom with a few supports, however some children do not. We have an amazing preschool classroom in our district for childre with autism. It is just for children with autism because they do extensive EIBI (Early Intensive Behavioral Intervention). At first blush it may look very restrictive, but the outcome of that classroom is that most of the kids spend the premoninant about of time in an inclusive classroom once they get to elementary school and are indistinguishable from their neurotypical peers. So this highly structured classroom is actually LRE for these children.

Parents do have a say, and it's always a sticky situation when the school and parents do not agree with eachother. As part of Due Process, you are allowed an advocate. There are many advocacy organizations out there, contact the school about ones in your area. They should be able to tell you. The one caveat is that many organizations automatically set themselves up as adversaries to the school which can be counter productive. You want one that does not have an agenda other than helping the school provide the best services for your child. The advocate will know IDEA backwards and forwards, will know the school, and will know what different options are for your child. They will be able to help you advocate for your child in what can be an otherwise intimidating situation.

 

[BeckyScott]

EB- the advocacy organization here has that reputation. So they're good to hunt down if you're in a real mess, but I view them as the people you go to right before you go to the lawyer, because once you pull them in, all heck is going to break loose. Also, they aren't Local, so their knowledge of the schools here is limited.

What Hasil found is pretty good. Since he's been in a regular classroom for the past 3 years, it is already established that he can thrive there with para support... and the para is needed less and less each year.

All righty, I guess we just see what happens, huh? You know, it might be the greatest thing ever, and it might be horrid, it's hard to know right now. And it's going to be hard for me to find out the truth of it, because for the most part I'll be relying on DS to tell me, and that's tricky.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Becky: An advocate doesn't necessarily have to be from an organization. It can be a trusted friend or another parent who has been through the ssystem and knows how it works. If there isn't already, you might want to consider starting a special ed support group in your area. The district here started one and it has been great for both the teachers and the parents.

Is there a family who has been through it that would be willing to help you out as an advocate? A family friend who is familiar with IDEA and special education? Even somebody there just to offer you moral support? They have to allow them there with you and sometimes (manytimes) it seems that just having an ally with you can help a lot.

 

[jodifla]

EB- the advocacy organization here has that reputation. So they're good to hunt down if you're in a real mess, but I view them as the people you go to right before you go to the lawyer, because once you pull them in, all heck is going to break loose. Also, they aren't Local, so their knowledge of the schools here is limited.

What Hasil found is pretty good. Since he's been in a regular classroom for the past 3 years, it is already established that he can thrive there with para support... and the para is needed less and less each year.

All righty, I guess we just see what happens, huh? You know, it might be the greatest thing ever, and it might be horrid, it's hard to know right now. And it's going to be hard for me to find out the truth of it, because for the most part I'll be relying on DS to tell me, and that's tricky.

Do you have a lawyer?

We hired one as a consultant. She doesn't come with us to the meetings, because we don't want to escalate anything until we have to, but she's from the area, a mediator actually with the county school system, so she knows the law, the players, what's typical, what resources are available, etc. She reviews our IEP, and we can call her anytime we have trouble/questions.

For example, the SpecEd folks tried to tell us our son was getting to many services to remain in an inclusion class. We checked with her, and she she said, uh, no, that's not the case at all.

So we use her services judiciously, but she's been invaluable.

 

[BeckyScott]

Becky: An advocate doesn't necessarily have to be from an organization. It can be a trusted friend or another parent who has been through the system and knows how it works. If there isn't already, you might want to consider starting a special ed support group in your area. The district here started one and it has been great for both the teachers and the parents.

Is there a family who has been through it that would be willing to help you out as an advocate? A family friend who is familiar with IDEA and special education? Even somebody there just to offer you moral support? They have to allow them there with you and sometimes (manytimes) it seems that just having an ally with you can help a lot.

EB- I keep forgetting you are in Missouri! What I was referring to, of course, was MPact. And our "region" is out of Springfield or Columbia or something, there isn't a local MPact person. Many have started the training, few have finished. I had considered doing it at one point but the time commitment and travel to do the training was a problem.

It seems like the resources here vanish quickly. When DS was first diagnosed, the MPact lady was a fireball, just the mention of her first name would scare the pants off of the school. Then she left or got transferred and we have gone thru 2 or 3 since then, the last time I contacted them I knew just as much as she did. They also have a problem not returning calls, or saying they'll come to an IEP meeting or meet with you and then not show. The same thing, resource-wise, has happened with Judevine. They are supposed to have someone checking in with you, they are assigned to regions, they can't keep people and nobody from Judevine has darkened our door for probably 3 years. They were advertising about a year ago for someone for our region and I applied for the job, and was told that they don't hire "clients". So now we have no one, I guess they'd rather not have anyone at all than have a "client".

I only know of two people that would be maybe useful as advocates. One is a lady who attempted to start a support group (it's been attempted several times here, including once by me, but never taken off) who I have met but don't know well, don't know how much she knows. The other is the lady who is like the local Poster Mom For Autism, but she works for the school district so I don't know if there would be a conflict of interest.

(coincidentally, strangely, that mom's child isn't transferring to the new program)

It seems that I have been on the other end of it more. I've been the one pulled in for moral support for other people.

I am 99% sure that there isn't a local lawyer familiar with IDEA, so I'd need to hunt one down.

Gosh, re-reading this makes me just want to scream "get me out of here!"

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Becky: since you are in MO, I will see what I can find. Our professor last summer block mentioned a really good one that is not adversarial and I think covers all of MO. I will have to see if I can dig out those notes or ask her the next time I see her.

 

[bookwormde]

What it comes down to is that in almost all cased the services that are being provided in a specific program can also be provided in the standard classroom (or in the school in some way). The issue is that the district does not want to spend the money to do it in the classroom setting (or in some cases in a small group pull out setting in the child’s regular school).

What you have to do is to read appendix A, which is basically a compilation of administrative rulings and interpretations (available on the wrights law site.) I a paraphrasing but it basically say that the services have to be provided in LRE, regardless of administrative convenience (read cost and personnel issues with brining the service to LRE).

Therefore since the district must supply the services in either location if your child’s need for an appropriate education can be met by these services then they have to do it in LRE and not the special program. There are certain limited situations where even with full funding and personnel that there are services which cannot effectively be provided in the standard classroom or by special pullouts in the “home” school but these generally are rare except in the most challenging cases.

LRE is based on the lest restrictive environment where the child can receive and appropriate education when all possible supports and services (not just the standard, convenient or current ones) are being offered in that environment.

Hope this helps. Sorry for taking so long I had a work project the last 4 days.

bookwormde

 

[BeckyScott]

There are certain limited situations where even with full funding and personnel that there are services which cannot effectively be provided in the standard classroom or by special pullouts in the “home” school but these generally are rare except in the most challenging cases.

Yep. And it can be done, because it has been done for the past 3 years. They set the precedent themselves.

Crap. I don't know what to do.

Do I head over to the school board office now, during the summer, and have a chit-chat? Or do I wait and see? It might be the bestest program ever. Or it may be that two weeks into it I'll be wanting to transfer him and it will be a bigger problem then. Since it's a new program I don't have any history or other parents to talk to about it.

I hate to sound conspiratoral, but I am just wondering what their real motivation is here. I have learned, which is sad, to not trust them too much.

 

[jodifla]

Yep. And it can be done, because it has been done for the past 3 years. They set the precedent themselves.

Crap. I don't know what to do.

Do I head over to the school board office now, during the summer, and have a chit-chat? Or do I wait and see? It might be the bestest program ever. Or it may be that two weeks into it I'll be wanting to transfer him and it will be a bigger problem then. Since it's a new program I don't have any history or other parents to talk to about it.

I hate to sound conspiratoral, but I am just wondering what their real motivation is here. I have learned, which is sad, to not trust them too much.

In another post, you mentioned there was another person in you district who opted not to put her child in this program. Have you had the chance to talk with her?

Also, you might want to ask for the statistics your school district has on re-mainstreaming kids. One of the biggest concerns about a separate classroom is that historically, separate HAS NOT been equal. So kids who go off on the separate track get so far behind, they can never catch up.

Schools are required to keep this info...I'd ask for it! In our IEP, when they were pushing for a separate program, our university researcher asked this question about remainstreaming, and they said "oh, of course, kids are sent back to the general classes all the time", but when asked to see the statistics, they didn't have them. And it stopped them cold from pushing for a separate placement for that school year.

 

[bookwormde]

BeckysScott

My style would be to set up a 1 on 1 with the districts special education director as soon as possible. If they want an agenda for the meeting, let them know that it is to review their implantation of LRE under IDEA and it’s impact on your child’s ability to receive and appropriate education in the least restrictive environment.

Ask to know about the specifics of the program and the services, which he will be getting that, are not currently done in the schools general education setting in the district.

You will have to make a decision if you think that it is in keeping with your child’s needs for an appropriate education to request that those services be offered in the general education school.


If it is, then emphasize that the services your child needs can be delivered in the general education school and make it their burden to document specific reasons why they believe they cannot do this. If they have any good valid clinical or educational reason which are not limited by there current policies, school configurations, programs, staffing or funding then you may want to rethink the general education setting. If it is just one of the “administrative convenience” issues and you believe the general education setting is best for your child then let them know that you believe they are violating the LRE provision of IDEA and that you are willing to pursue such remedies as are available if there is no other way to have your child’s needs for an appropriate education met in LRE.

I have found the more I use the phase “ what is needed to meet my child’s need for and appropriate education” and “the requirement for the supports and accommodations to be offered in LRE” the more flexible the district will has been.

Also bring out a copy of appendix A and take it with you, most district personnel do not even know it exists, highlight the sections about offering accommodations and support in LRE and be prepared to let the district personnel read them.

Per Peter Wright appendix A has the same force of law as the main IDEA statute.

As to motivations I have found that at different levels of the district there are different motivations, rarely have I found them malicious, most are just from not being fully informed.

bookwormde

 

[BeckyScott]

Update:

I called all the resources I had.

But it turns out that Google is my best resource, I guess.

Right off the Missouri DESE website, a child with a disability is to be at their home school unless the services cannot be provided there. That the child is supposed to attend the school closest to their home.

Placements (34 CFR 300.552)


In determining the educational placement of a child with a disability, including a preschool child with a disability, this agency ensures that the placement decision is made by the IEP team that is knowledgeable about the child, the meaning of the evaluation data, and the placement options, and is made in conformity with LRE provisions. The child's placement is determined at least annually, is based on the child's IEP, and is as close as possible to the child's home.


Unless the IEP of a child with a disability requires some other arrangement, the child is educated in the school that he or she would attend if nondisabled. In selecting the LRE, consideration is given to any potential harmful effect on the child or on the quality of services that he or she needs. A child with a disability is not removed from education in age-appropriate regular classrooms solely because of needed modifications in the general curriculum.

The strange thing, though, is that none of the people I called for advice mentioned this. And one of the places I called was our state parent advocacy organization. And that organization, on their website, has printables, one of which is on LRE and also specifically says that our kids are supposed to be at their home school. It seems so obvious now, but the people I talked to were all knowledgeable in their own way, and nobody brought that up. Several of them did mention that it was an IEP Team decision (which didn't happen either), which is in the same statute. The services that DS needs have been met by the home school before now, so there is definately reasonable argument to keep him there. We also have not received a Notice of Action yet, so technically at this point he isn't officially transferred anyway.

So I still don't know exactly what we'll do, because like I said before, we still have questions about that program. But now at least I feel we are holding a few more cards. The district autism coordinator is supposed to be calling me today and I will ask her the specific questions we have about the program. At that point DH and I will decide what we want to do.

There is, of course, more to the story, more information I found out, that gives us concern about the situation. But it's very specific to our school district and could be considered heresay (although it's from very reliable sources) and I probably shouldn't delve into it here.