I will pay $1,300.00 for 250 points

[nuthut]

Let's see, 1300 for 250 points-$5.20 each!! Hardly pays the annual dues, let alone the buy in costs. We have certainly sunk to a new low. The buy in goes up ($75) and now the rental cost goes down to $5. Looks like we will all be broke soon. I guess we might as well let the points expire and Disney can have the time to rent themselves!! I understand that they can use the money.

 

[rascalmom]

Hi! I'm not a DVC member, but I have been curious how the going rate of $10.00 per point came to be. If I bought in now at $75.00 per point and those points are good for 41 years, would my cost per use year be about $1.83 per year. Ok, now add in the dues or maintenance fees, whatever they are called. I've heard they are in the $3.50 per point range. That makes $5.33 per point to cover your DVC costs. I don't think the above poster was being greedy, but simply looking a economic reality. I know there are frequently posts on E-Bay auctioning DVC points. They go for $9.00 per point & up. Obviously that is enough for some DVC'ers to go through all that trouble & still make a handsome profit. If that what you are in it for, fine. But why pout or slam someone for making an economically reasonable offer that might actually help someone who just doesn't want to lose their point for the year?
I could be wrong about all this & I'd love for someone reasonable to explain it all to me.

 

[spruce]

Rascalmom, I guess He could book a studio through Disney at the Boardwalk for these six nights. It would cost $2424.00 with tax. A one bedroom would cost $3260.00 with tax. This is rack rate of course and I'm sure that a better rate could be found using an annual pass discount or maybe some DVCer will rent their points for $5.20ea, who knows. I don't think price/value is related to what my cost was but what a free market will bear. Also, points that expire next march can be banked in full till this sept, an owner is at no risk of losing anything now. Maybe as march gets closer and someone needs bailed out due to lack of planning or a late cancellation they'll rent for less then the $10 rate ( which I feel is too low already.) I'll never rent my points for any price because my DVC vacations are priceless. Good luck........spruce

 

[rascalmom]

Spruce,

Thanks for your kind reply. You are exactly right- the value of your DVC points is exactly what the market will bear. This was the point I was trying to make with NUTHUT. He seems to think he is entitled to a certain rate. I have not yet bought DVC, but when and if I am so fortunate - I think I would feel as you do that my vacation with my family is priceless. DVC'ers are fortunate that there does seem to be a ready rental market for those that want or need to do this. I just am a little perplexed that there seem to be some out there who are making a secondary market business out of it. Is this allowed by Disney or are they "stretching" the rules a bit. Have a VERY Disney Day! Rascalmom

 

[RobDoc]

This thread was begun on the Rent/Trade Board and has now been moved here for discussion.

The original post offered to rent 250 points for 6 nites at OKW. They are offering to pay $1300 for the 250 points.

 

[benny2bunny]

I know I may be being dub her but did one of you say on Ebay, resale sometimes come up from $9 a point or were you talking rental's I must have missed something somewhere, but you must be daft if you don't snap up those points if this was the case, let me know which E-bay site does this as I would be more than intrested.

 

[rascalmom]

Sorry, I didn't mean to cause confusion. I meant $9/pt. rental. I did see one auction to sell points at $55.00 per point. Search E-Bay by timeshare/disney for rentals or real estate/timeshare/disney for resales. There is something on there about real estate purchase auctions not being binding.

 

[ronw]

Rascalmom,

It is not an accurate calculation of cost to simply divide the purchase price by the number of years. You must factor in the opportunity cost - what that money could have earned elsewhere. When trying to figure the value of something over 41 years - the assumptions you make about interest rates will really make a big difference in your cost. I figure that at $75/pt
a conservative approach says that point will cost about $6/year, a bit more if financed. Add in dues between 3 and 4 dollars/pt and the actual cost is very close to the $10/pt.

 

[PamOKW]

The original poster is looking for dates surrounding Easter next year so, even if a reservation is available, his price is probably dreaming.

BUT, with the increase in Disney room availability and the number of DVC rooms being turned back to Disney in exchanges, even the $10 per point may be difficult to hold at certain times.

For example, through October Mousesavers indicates it is possible to get a one bedroom at the BW for $216 per night (rack rate $375). A full week, with tax, would run $1,671. A preferred view one-bedroom during Magic Season costs 270 points. Dividing Disney's price by the number of points needed --- $6.19 per point. Why would someone pay a DVC member $2,700 and give up housekeeping and the flexibility of cancelling if they aren't seeing a substantial savings? (With the exception of a DVC member being able to make a reservation if the resort were sold out.)

Some other rates out there are BWV studios for $169; OKW studio for $160 and OKW one bedroom for $215. These are 35% or more off rack rate.

All the documents warn that, in the end, Disney is a powerful competitor. Sometimes we can rule the market, sometimes we can't.

 

[DBH]

The odds of this person getting that are not good. Nuthut is complaining about something trying to undercut his going rate. The points are to used at each members descrection. If someone really wanted to rent at 5.00 pt then he has every right. Nuthut says you lose money renting that low. I thought these were vacation points not rental properties.

 

[stlrod]

Pam, good analysis. As I've been considering becoming a DVC member, I have been concerned about the diluted value with the deep discounts we're seeing and I've been able to get (i.e., 25% discount at HH this weekend and AKL concierge for $239 at Xmas.) At the very least, I would think these types of discounts are going to make it more difficult when salespeople begin the "what you would normally pay" parts of the sales presenation.

 

[Pete W.]

I think a distinction needs to be made between members and non-members. I don't normally rent our points (I'd much rather use them!) but if/when I need to I would much rather rent to another member. There is less risk involved plus I am much less likely to want "top dollar" since I figure things will even out in the long run (I may get a good deal from another member if I ever need extra points). Plus there is no concern about diluting the value of our points because we're keeping it between members.

 

[Richyams]

Nuthut is in the business of renting points. Right now, the discounts being offered make $5 per point seem reasonable and he isn't happy. He will claim that since he only rents weekdays, $5 is still too low, but its really not.

It is that practice of only renting weekdays that hurts all members. It is people like that, who have no intention of honoring the contract they signed, that hurt us all.

He is best ignored.

 

[stlrod]

While I do agree that the original poster might be a bit unrealistic, let me provide this as illustration as a way of supporting his offer. A few weeks ago, I offered to pay $8 a point for HH points this weekend (I was looking for a studio.) No one bit (someone suggested they migt do it for $9 a point.). On the other hand, Disney offered me a 25% disocunt on a room (for either AAA or Disney Club.) I ended up booking a 1 BR for 2 nights for a total of $544. By my calculations, the points needed for a 1 BR for Friday and Saturday would have been 129. Multiplying that amount by $8 would make for a total of $1032. Had I purchased the points through a member as I had intended, a studio would have cost me $536. So for only $6 more than what I had offered, I'm getting a much larger unit plus housekeeping. This is not meant in any way to be a slam at DVC. Disney does, however, promote renting points as a viable alternative to using them. So the question becomes, does Disney owe DVCrs a responsibility not to dilute point value?

 

[Lisa F]

Originally posted by stlrod
So the question becomes, does Disney owe DVCrs a responsibility not to dilute point value?

I have two responses for this.

The first is that I'm sure Disney would MUCH prefer to rent their rooms for rack rate than the deep discounts that they are giving. They're not discounting because they want to compete with DVC members, they are discounting because they can't rent the rooms at rack rate.

The second is that Disney has no responsibility to do anything that helps people make money off of their points. In fact, there are disclaimers all over the place stating that you're not supposed to look at DVC as a money-making venture.

In spite of the discounts available, I believe that we are still getting what we paid for. When we bought into DVC we were staying at the BWI on an AP rate. We DID use those numbers in our calculations for a comparison. Guess what happened the next year after we bought into DVC? Complaints like you would not believe over on the budget boards about lack of availability of AP rates (during the millennium celebration). I was really glad I bought into DVC then when I was looking at having to either pay rack rate for Epcot area resorts or staying in another area.

I'm sure over the next 42 years that the economy will go through at least a few more cycles like we've had recently. Sometimes AP rates will be available, other times they will be scarce. In either case, it's not something I need to worry about anymore since the one thing that will be a constant is that the price to stay at Disney resorts will continue to go up and our prices, except for maintenance fees, will stay constant.

Lisa

 

[Doctor P]

Perhaps this is just further evidence to support the caveat in our documents that states you will be at a competitive disadvantage in trying to rent your points.

 

[mikesmom]

Come on, people, Disney's just trying to keep the place full. If it's not full, guess what? You and I have higher maintenance dues next year to cover the overhead of keeping the place open.

I agree with the poster who said the economy goes thru cycles. Prices will ebb and flow, it's the nature of things.

I've never had any urge to rent my points, but if I had some that were going to be wasted 'cause I forgot to bank or had to cancel a trip, I'm sure $5/point (or even $1/point) would be better than just losing them!

 

[PamOKW]

Stlrod -- As Doctor P mentions, there are several bold print disclaimers in the DVC documents cautioning anyone from any expectation of being able to rent out their points. It even mentions Disney's ability to offer competitive rates in the surrounding area.

Overall, once you've joined DVC you have contained costs for your vacations. It's true that this year there might be discounts available but, as you found out, you have to spend time chasing them down. You also have to travel when those discounts are available. DVC membership continues to be an excellent way to guarantee terrific accomodations at reasonable costs. Renting points from members rather than booking direct from Disney is where things can go up and down. However, planning to rent out points at a profit is not a good reason to purchase DVC because it can easily backfire year to year.

 

[stlrod]

As I indicated in my post, my illustration was not intended to be a slam at DVC. It was a very tough decision for my wife and I when we were deciding whether to buy at Marriott's Cypress Harbor or OKW. And even though I am very pleased with our decision, I always tell people who talk to me about timeshares in Orlando that they should look all 3 of what I consider to be the best in the business (Hilton is the other one.) As for "chasing down" rates, I didn't do that much chasing. Disney e-mailed me about the HH rates.

 

[PamOKW]

Disney does, however, promote renting points as a viable alternative to using them.

I wouldn't say they "promote" renting points. It's actually a grey area that folks have picked up on since the Internet and E-Bay have made it easier. DVC is always sold as being for personal vacation use. Rather than "renting" points they suggest "sharing" them with friends and family.

stlrod I didn't think you were slamming DVC and maybe you didn't spend a lot of time getting your HHI rate. You did mention checking out renting points and also getting the offer from Disney so I thought you spent some time trying to get a good deal. I was just pointing out that once a person is a member, they don't need to spend any time finding the best rate, they know they have spread their costs out over a time period. The same is true of your Marriott timeshare. I might be able to find a one time trip to a Marriott VC resort that is less than your costs for that year but over time, you have the convenience of not looking for rates and still getting a good deal.