I think I want a divorce...

[goofyernmost]

If it were a wife struggling with depression, I believe that the advice given on here would be much different than we we have seen in this thread.

OP's hubby is depressed, and guess what? He is disengaged from their life, so she has become as well. She may have decided that divorce is the answer, but right now, she will be divorcing a depressed man, and this may not be the real person who she married. I can't give her advice on whether to get divorced or not, but as someone who has lived with this in a marriage, I would encourage her to provide some other options to her hubby to help him through his mental health issue, besides just divorce. And, if she has been dealing with this for years, as she mentioned, then she herself may not be the same person either - is this her true self? does she really feel divorce is the only option? does she still love him?

Now, perhaps the depression can be used as an excuse, as she herself said that she has grown up, and in that case, then it would seem that the OP's mind is made up to divorce.

Tiger

I was talking about a wife in my post. And getting "help" as it's called is not going to fix anything. She, like many, was not looking for a way out, she was looking for a justification of her feelings of hopelessness and inability to cope. It was easy to find basically because of the system of mental health treatment is to not be judgmental and listen to some of the most outlandish crap and nod their head and say...well how do you feel about that. My X was telling all kinds of stories that lead the Dr. to agree that I was the cause of her depression when in reality it was a factor long before I ever met her, and she never told me about it.

Am I angry...damn right I am, but not at her. I am angry at the system that actually told her that she should leave because I was the cause of her depression. I was "bringing her down". This concept was brought up by her to which she received multiple affirmative nods of the head along with the common phrase..."and how do you feel about that". That will be $150.00 please. She left and her life went right down the crapper. She is now confined to a assisted living facility because she was unable to care for herself. I, on the other hand, and I know this sounds awful, have been the happiest I have been in many a year.

What I'm saying is...you can't fix it, you can't even affect it. All it does is drag you down with it. You only live one life and it is short. The kids will, be sucked into that vortex and their life will be negatively affected as well. Get out unless you see a drastic change in the persons ability to pull themselves up and do the best they can. Otherwise...it will not get any better.

 

[Tiger926]

He did tell me that he was depressed, but that was only recently. We have been having these issues for over 10 years, and it has gotten progressively worse over these years.

I am not the same person in my mid 30's with 2 kids, as I was at 20 years old.

I have been avoiding the idea of divorce, because I do not like divorce. I do love him, but I just know in my heart that we should not be married to each other.

Well, maybe he has been depressed for 10 years? As someone who has lived through this, I can tell you that he and I were different people during the depressive years. You become a different person as you have to cope with that demon of depresson. When a spouse is unfocused and disengaged, it means you are exhausted as you are doing double duty in all areas. You definitely are not the same person, and I can attest that you yourself can become unfocused and disengaged too.

Now, you say you aren't the same person as you were in your 20s, and I don't know too many people who are, and we shouldn't be, IMHO.

It sounds like you have been living a very difficult life for many years, and don't see any option for improvement. I wish you luck in the tough decisons that you have to make. You say you know in your heart that you should not be married, and that is a very important self-realization to make.

It sounds like you need to take care of you, and I wish you luck with the road ahead.

Tiger

 

[Tiger926]

I was talking about a wife in my post. And getting "help" as it's called is not going to fix anything. She, like many, was not looking for a way out, she was looking for a justification of her feelings of hopelessness and inability to cope. It was easy to find basically because of the system of mental health treatment is to not be judgmental and listen to some of the most outlandish crap and nod their head and say...well how do you feel about that. My X was telling all kinds of stories that lead the Dr. to agree that I was the cause of her depression when in reality it was a factor long before I ever met her, and she never told me about it.

Am I angry...damn right I am, but not at her. I am angry at the system that actually told her that she should leave because I was the cause of her depression. I was "bringing her down". This concept was brought up by her to which she received multiple affirmative nods of the head along with the common phrase..."and how do you feel about that". That will be $150.00 please. She left and her life went right down the crapper. She is now confined to a assisted living facility because she was unable to care for herself. I, on the other hand, and I know this sounds awful, have been the happiest I have been in many a year.

What I'm saying is...you can't fix it, you can't even affect it. All it does is drag you down with it. You only live one life and it is short. The kids will, be sucked into that vortex and their life will be negatively affected as well. Get out unless you see a drastic change in the persons ability to pull themselves up and do the best they can. Otherwise...it will not get any better.

You may have been talking about your wife, but I mean if the OP was a man, I truly believe the advice would be different on this thread. Along the lines of what you said - does your hubby not do enough around the house, does he disrespect you, are you depressed?

In this case, everyone has jumped on the OP's hubby being lazy, and I was the first to ask about depression, because the profile she presented is classic depression.

I am glad that you have found happiness, but you do know that not all therapists work like that? I have several in my family, and that is the exact opposite of how they work. They try and save families as much as they can, when that is in the best interest of the family, and they sometimes do it for free/no charge as that is what is best for the family as well.

I am sorry you had a bad experience in this area, but my concern is that the OP hasn't really given the depression much thought, which is what most people do. We on the other hand, fought it head on, with professional/medical help, and we beat it. It was hard and took work, but no more difficult than the depressive years themselves. Those were the worst...My question to OP is this: if her hubby had cancer, would she be getting a divorce? Cancer causes depression, disengagement, serious fatigue, etc. and so her life would probably be worse than it is now. Just something to think about...

Mental health issues are a demon to deal with, just like cancer is. They both require patience and support, but if the OP has decided that she is better off without her hubby at this point, despite him struggling with depression, than that is her decision to make. She may know that her hubby won't get help or has no interest to, and in that case, then she may decide that divorce is truly the only option available to her, but my concern and question was has the help been presented or offered to her hubby?

Tiger

 

[mrsklamc]

Goofyernmost - I remember seeing posts about your ex before...Of course no one gets the whole story from the internet, but she always sounds a lot more like "spoiled selfish brat" syndrome than actual clinical depression. Someone who is clinically depressed can no more "pull themselves up" than someone with cancer can will themselves to feel better. There are medications that can help, though.

 

[Buckalew11]

Bob...I like you Bob.

I saw a truck today that had a Bob NC on the front of the license plate. I immediately thought of the DIS' BobNC

I was talking about a wife in my post. And getting "help" as it's called is not going to fix anything. She, like many, was not looking for a way out, she was looking for a justification of her feelings of hopelessness and inability to cope. It was easy to find basically because of the system of mental health treatment is to not be judgmental and listen to some of the most outlandish crap and nod their head and say...well how do you feel about that. My X was telling all kinds of stories that lead the Dr. to agree that I was the cause of her depression when in reality it was a factor long before I ever met her, and she never told me about it.

Am I angry...damn right I am, but not at her. I am angry at the system that actually told her that she should leave because I was the cause of her depression. I was "bringing her down". This concept was brought up by her to which she received multiple affirmative nods of the head along with the common phrase..."and how do you feel about that". That will be $150.00 please. She left and her life went right down the crapper. She is now confined to a assisted living facility because she was unable to care for herself. I, on the other hand, and I know this sounds awful, have been the happiest I have been in many a year.

What I'm saying is...you can't fix it, you can't even affect it. All it does is drag you down with it. You only live one life and it is short. The kids will, be sucked into that vortex and their life will be negatively affected as well. Get out unless you see a drastic change in the persons ability to pull themselves up and do the best they can. Otherwise...it will not get any better.

As to your middle paragraph... sometimes I think this happens for the reason of greed. If you go to a counselor and they even suggested something hard or opposite, you may not return so they just keep feeding you what you want to here, not always helping you.

My stbxBIL's counselor told him that he did not have to be the same father to his kids anymore--that he had a "new life now." Over and over again, we heard, he has "a new life now." Yeah, a new life away from his wife but not a new life in regards to his 4 kids. WTH?? But she new he did not want to reconcile and knew this was what he wanted to hear. She just did not know his new life involved a 15yo girl!
My sister's counselor doesn't do much better, lol. But she goes weekly and has for 3 years, sometimes more than once and sometimes for 2 hours at a whack. She's not going to say the wrong thing, or the hard thing... she doesn't want to lose a steady "patient."

 

[BensDaddy]

Best of luck. Not sure what else to say. I feel for you.

 

[arminnie]

Kick his lazy butt to the curb and get on with your life.

You are not too old to find someone new. I am in my late 60s and have a new beau. No reason to put up with a *******.

 

[denisenh]

i am in a similar situation, i wish i could fix it, that would be a better option, but i can't. i am done hoping, done wishing, done tolerating, done talking. i make the best of it for now.
good luck and

 

[Colleen27]

I told him a few months ago that I was thinking about divorce. We have talked over the years though about making changes, and nothing ever changed. When I mentioned divorce he said he wanted to work it out, and I think he got nervous. I never mentioned divorce before that. He made an effort for a day or 2, but that was it. I really don't want to go there again, because I know how it will end. It's always the same. We talk, changes last a short time, and right back where we started.

Your husband sounds a lot like the way mine has gotten at times, usually during periods of unemployment (in our case, his business declining precipitously, bringing prolonged "slow" periods where he basically sat on the couch and had his own little pity party). And there were times when I'd get frustrated, we'd talk, he'd be more like his old self for a short time, and then it would all fall right back into the same patterns.

A big part of the problem was that I was talking, but not listening. I never thought to ask him how I could help him get back to better habits, because frankly I was so sick of doing everything that I didn't really have much interest in doing anything else for him. But in the end that's what it took; us working together, rather than me expecting him to figure it out for himself, made all the difference. Simple things - looking over his resume for him, pointing out job opportunities (which was reassuring even though he wasn't ready to give up on his company), specific to-do lists rather than just expecting him to see what needed done, and most of all, putting more of the childcare on him because it reinforced something that he really feels good about at a time when he was focused on the aspect of life that had him feeling bad.

I'm not saying this would work for you. I never had any doubts that I wanted to stay married to DH, and even in the worst times divorce wasn't something I gave much thought to because I've always loved him. Without that, I don't think we'd have made it through. But if you do want to keep trying it is another perspective to consider. Good luck.

 

[focusondisney]

Unfortunately, this situation is "real", though I really wish it were not. I love and care for my husband. He really is a good guy, but he is lazy and unambitious. We have grown apart, and I know that our marriage will not work. Yes, you are only hearing from me, but I am really just stating the facts as they happen, not my interpretation of them.

For example:
I work and have an income. He does not work, and has no income.
I clean, do yard work, fix up the house, care for the kids, and pay the bills. He does not.
While I am working around the house (after working sometimes 12 hours at work), he is laying on the sofa watching TV or on the computer.
When I ask for help, he doesn't.
This really isn't a he said/she said. It's basically, I do and he doesn't. There is really no way to spin that.

I have been with dh for 15 years, and we have 2 young children. He is a good person, and could potentially make someone else very happy, but sadly not me. I have spent the last 10 years trying to see past his faults, but as I mature he does not. I have talked to him about this many many times, and I know that he wants to stick it out, but nothing ever changes.

In many ways he is like a child. I was 20 and he 29 when we started dating. I was working, living on my own, and going to school. He was working, but still living at home with his parents. I guess I was too young too realize that this was mistake number 1.

He has no ambition, and is content to just go with the flow. I am ambitious, and I'm always seeking the next educational pursuit. He has on many occasions made fun of my aspirations and has not been very supportive. I'm not asking him to go to college or pursue the same as me, but he could at least support me in my endeavors.

He has been unemployed for 2 years and there are no job prospects in sight. I have been supporting the household financially and in every other way. I do almost EVERYTHING for the children (clean, laundry, bath, get ready for school and bed, breakfast...). He does the dishes (sometimes) and cooks dinner. I do the yard work, fix things around the house, do the banking, and pay the bills. He lays on the sofa all day, plays on the computer, and watches TV. I work, and I have to do a lot of overtime to make up for the money that he doesn't bring in. He always has his hand out for things he wants for himself. I rarely if ever buy anything for myself. Everything is for the kids. We can't really afford extras like going to the racetrack with his friends, and buying computer gadgets so he can continue to make a dent in the sofa.
I have had many conversations over the years with him about this. Nothing has changed. An example, one day a few years ago while I was 6 months pregnant, I was clearing some ivy from the back yard. It was an ALL DAY event, but we had skunks that had set up shop, and I wanted them gone. He came outside and watched me. I asked him to open a trash bag and hold it for me so that I could put the ivy in it. He said, "That's your project, not mine," and walked away. This has happened in many different scenarios over the years. He is LAZY.

OK, I say baloney on the "he's a nice person" & he's depressed talk. Look at all I bolded. A nice person does not treat his wife & family this way. A depressed person but he can find the energy to go to the track & play on the computer all day? A nice person making fun of his wife getting an education? A nice person who can't be bothered to hold a garbage bag for his 6 months pregnant wife?

Take a look at the man you are living with. A lazyman who would contributes little to his family. Your sons are looking at him every day. They are learning that it is OK to lay around & do nothing to contribute to the family. Is that what you want them to learn? Is that the type of men you want them to be?

I get that you're afraid of the unknown. And maybe you really don't want to be alone. You still have a lot of life to live & you deserve to be happy & live the life you want. It takes courage to change your life. Good for you for seeing that you deserve better. Now just keep going. Stay strong & do what you must.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Your husband sounds a lot like the way mine has gotten at times, usually during periods of unemployment (in our case, his business declining precipitously, bringing prolonged "slow" periods where he basically sat on the couch and had his own little pity party). And there were times when I'd get frustrated, we'd talk, he'd be more like his old self for a short time, and then it would all fall right back into the same patterns.

A big part of the problem was that I was talking, but not listening. I never thought to ask him how I could help him get back to better habits, because frankly I was so sick of doing everything that I didn't really have much interest in doing anything else for him. But in the end that's what it took; us working together, rather than me expecting him to figure it out for himself, made all the difference. Simple things - looking over his resume for him, pointing out job opportunities (which was reassuring even though he wasn't ready to give up on his company), specific to-do lists rather than just expecting him to see what needed done, and most of all, putting more of the childcare on him because it reinforced something that he really feels good about at a time when he was focused on the aspect of life that had him feeling bad.

I'm not saying this would work for you. I never had any doubts that I wanted to stay married to DH, and even in the worst times divorce wasn't something I gave much thought to because I've always loved him. Without that, I don't think we'd have made it through. But if you do want to keep trying it is another perspective to consider. Good luck.

While I'm glad it worked out for you, I wonder: if we were talking about your teen or college aged child and you mentioned having to do these types of things for them, if you would give the advice (or others on the DIS would) that you need to stop being a helicopter parent and babying your child. It bothers me that it seems men need to be treated like children and some even expect it because they're not smart enough to figure it out for themselves...that we need to spoon feed them and coddle them. The most powerful jobs in the world are mostly held by men. I'm not buying the "we need to do more for them 'cause they're not smart enough to know better" way of thinking.

 

[Buckalew11]

OK, I say baloney on the "he's a nice person" & he's depressed talk. Look at all I bolded. A nice person does not treat his wife & family this way. A depressed person but he can find the energy to go to the track & play on the computer all day? A nice person making fun of his wife getting an education? A nice person who can't be bothered to hold a garbage bag for his 6 months pregnant wife?

Take a look at the man you are living with. A lazyman who would contributes little to his family. Your sons are looking at him every day. They are learning that it is OK to lay around & do nothing to contribute to the family. Is that what you want them to learn? Is that the type of men you want them to be?

I get that you're afraid of the unknown. And maybe you really don't want to be alone. You still have a lot of life to live & you deserve to be happy & live the life you want. It takes courage to change your life. Good for you for seeing that you deserve better. Now just keep going. Stay strong & do what you must.

I see where you are coming from.

I'm sure he is depressed but he hasn't done much to help himself, as far as we can tell from the OP.

I'll tell you, my DH has had 3 periods of being unemployed since we've been married. And all three times he went out and found work to do. He has a college degree and each time has taken a job beneath what one would expect him to do.

First time was a week before we were married. He found a jump working for a plumber--no experience with that line of work but the man taught him a lot in a rather short period of time. He found other work but did learn that he can fix anything having to do with plumbing.

Second time he did yard work and landscaping. Brought home a paycheck every week for about 6 months until he found work in his "field."

Third time (just 2 years ago), he took a job working for a gastroenterology office. He left there and shoveled horse **** in the Smokies and gave horseback riding tours in the mtns. No one will ever say he is lazy. We had a lot going on during this time and he truly was depressed--it was scary but he got up every darn day and went to work. He'd have probably killed himself if he sat at home on the couch all day doing practically nothing.

Your DH needs some tough love and needs some hope and needs something to live for and work for. How about those boys?!! I think your DH needs some purpose in his life nd needs some motivation. It is NOT OK to sit around waiting for the perfect job to come along. I don't care if he used to make 100,000 dollars a year or thinks he's not going to work for less than he is worth--he needs to go out and find a job doing something.

I realize some people say one should not do that but I totally disagree. Find a job, make some money to support your family, have a purpose everyday, getting up and getting out of the house. After years of no job, that looks bad on paper too--do anything (flop whoppers) show yourself, your kids and potential employers you have what it takes!

OP, I am sorry you are going through this. I think Bob NC's suggestion of cancelling internet and cable is right on. I'll be darn if I'd enable my DH to lay around and be a lazy bum. I'd get him to the doctor. If he is depressed, I'd get meds and then I'd make sure he took them every.single.day.

Good luck!

 

[Tiger926]

While I'm glad it worked out for you, I wonder: if we were talking about your teen or college aged child and you mentioned having to do these types of things for them, if you would give the advice (or others on the DIS would) that you need to stop being a helicopter parent and babying your child. It bothers me that it seems men need to be treated like children and some even expect it because they're not smart enough to figure it out for themselves...that we need to spoon feed them and coddle them. The most powerful jobs in the world are mostly held by men. I'm not buying the "we need to do more for them 'cause they're not smart enough to know better" way of thinking.

I don't understand where you get helping someone with a resume as being treated like a child? I've helped tons of people with resumes, and it has nothing to do with being treated like a child. I am not following here...

Again, if a spouse is struggling with depression, which is a mental health illness, then he/she can't stay focused, engaged or motivated to clean the kitchen or take out the garbage. They are struggling to get through the day, so cleaning the floor is not a priority to them.

Do you really think that most men want to sit around feeling sad and depressed because it's fun? Self-esteem issues in men are different than in women, and so when men are disengaged from their own lives, there is usually a more legitimate reason than it's fun to feel like that.

As for helping men, it is what it is. Males and females are wired differently, and that is a fact. If someone isn't detail oriented, why belittle them and make fun of them? I would provide a list, as I would do for a colleague, a student or my child, and that is that. It doesn't mean I think he's stupid, but I excel in that area, where he needs help, so not following what the issue is here?

OP's hubby clearly has issues, and they clearly have issues as a marital unit, and have been having them for many years. If OP has been married for 15 years, but has been having problems for 10 years, then this has been going on pretty much almost their entire marriage. She is now at her breaking point...

It has been a very interesting thread, Tiger

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I don't understand where you get helping someone with a resume as being treated like a child? I've helped tons of people with resumes, and it has nothing to do with being treated like a child. I am not following here...

Again, if a spouse is struggling with depression, which is a mental health illness, then he/she can't stay focused, engaged or motivated to clean the kitchen or take out the garbage. They are struggling to get through the day, so cleaning the floor is not a priority to them.

Do you really think that most men want to sit around feeling sad and depressed because it's fun? Self-esteem issues in men are different than in women, and so when men are disengaged from their own lives, there is usually a more legitimate reason than it's fun to feel like that.

As for helping men, it is what it is. Males and females are wired differently, and that is a fact. If someone isn't detail oriented, why belittle them and make fun of them? I would provide a list, as I would do for a colleague, a student or my child, and that is that. It doesn't mean I think he's stupid, but I excel in that area, where he needs help, so not following what the issue is here?

OP's hubby clearly has issues, and they clearly have issues as a marital unit, and have been having them for many years. If OP has been married for 15 years, but has been having problems for 10 years, then this has been going on pretty much almost their entire marriage. She is now at her breaking point...

It has been a very interesting thread, Tiger

Helping someone or doing it for them: "rather than me expecting him to figure it out for himself, made all the difference. Simple things - looking over his resume for him, pointing out job opportunities (which was reassuring even though he wasn't ready to give up on his company), specific to-do lists rather than just expecting him to see what needed done

No one is saying belittle them, but sometimes treating a spouse like a child is just as belittling as doing things for them. If she was already doing EVERYTHING in the marriage/household, I don't see why this is also her responsibility.

I have dealt with and continue to deal with family members who suffer from depression. But I've seen them play the depression card when convenient. Not saying all people do, but it happens. And the depressed people and other family members sometimes will guilt the other spouse because of it. Why make a change if you don't have to? Not that people are happy to be depressed but they sometimes seem to believe it relieves them of all responsibilities for themselves and others.

 

[Colleen27]

While I'm glad it worked out for you, I wonder: if we were talking about your teen or college aged child and you mentioned having to do these types of things for them, if you would give the advice (or others on the DIS would) that you need to stop being a helicopter parent and babying your child. It bothers me that it seems men need to be treated like children and some even expect it because they're not smart enough to figure it out for themselves...that we need to spoon feed them and coddle them. The most powerful jobs in the world are mostly held by men. I'm not buying the "we need to do more for them 'cause they're not smart enough to know better" way of thinking.

I think there is a difference between it being (or allowing it to become) a standing habit, as so many helicopter parents do, and helping a loved one through a tough time. And I don't think it is a question of them not being smart enough to know better. I think depression gets in the way of grasping the obvious solutions, and that defensiveness and resentment get in the way of working out of that mindset.

I don't know the OP's entire situation, but I knew in mine that it was a temporary problem that just needed to be worked through - DH dreamed since he was very young of being his own boss and took it very hard when that dream didn't look like it would pan out because work is a huge part of his identity. Seeing our household income fall by half and finding himself suddenly "worthless" in the working world was something that hit him very hard. And the fact is, me dwelling on every thing he'd done or left undone that annoyed me was making the situation worse. If you'd asked me then I probably would have said he was always that way, just not as bad when he was working, but that would have been my frustration and anger talking.

I think that if the genders were reversed here the opinions would be very different. If it was the wife who, after some major life event that caused her to question her identity and undermined her self-worth, was withdrawn and not a functioning member of the household the chorus would be "Get her help", not "Leave her lazy butt". There is still very much a double standard when it comes to these things, with men expected to be tougher and being judged more harshly for not just sucking it up and going on with life.

 

[cm8]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I appreciate them all. It has been therapeutic for me to voice my feelings, and receive input on my situation. I have come to some realizations that I have known deep down but have not been able to say out loud.

I have been enabling him.
Our relationship is predictable, and I fear the unknown.
I love him, but I am not "in love" with him.
If he had agreed with a divorce when we discussed it, I would have been relieved.
Nothing will change. We have had this same discussion many times over the years and it is really like beating a dead horse.
It is in our best interest to separate.

I will seek legal and therapeutic counseling, and get my ducks in a row. I don't think I will pursue anything until he finds a job though. I think I know him well enough to know that we can come to an amicable custody arrangement (I hope), but I can't be sure that he won't pursue alimony. It may take many months before I get the nerve to follow through.

I still don't want to divorce because of what it means, but I also don't want to be married to him anymore.

Thanks again everyone!

Have faith that all will be well and you will get the love and support you need. I've been there before, getting up and letting go of the known was hard. It was the best decision ever.

 

[disneydee6]

I'm sorry you are going through this. You seem unhappy and I think that a separation at least is in order. From his behavior, the shock of separation will maybe get his butt in gear, but more likely he will feel sorry for himself that YOU are putting the family through this. But don't doubt your feelings.
I am friends with a woman who had a young daughter, and was feeling the same way. She brought home the majority of the money, her husband had a good job, and mysteriously left it to go back to his old job for about 1/3 of the pay, without consulting her. Then he lost that job and would spend all day smoking weed and sleeping. I would babysit for her WHILE HE WAS THERE SLEEPING. She was working, taking care of the kids and the house, while he decided to screw up his life. When you have a responsibility (kids, a mortgage, etc) you need to step up or get out. He probably was suffering from depression, but there is only so much someone can put up with while ALSO taking on the responsibilities of a single parent. She did end up having to pay alimony (which she paid in a lump sum) but for her it was worth it to get her life back. And it's time for you to get YOUR life back.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I think there is a difference between it being (or allowing it to become) a standing habit, as so many helicopter parents do, and helping a loved one through a tough time. And I don't think it is a question of them not being smart enough to know better. I think depression gets in the way of grasping the obvious solutions, and that defensiveness and resentment get in the way of working out of that mindset.

I don't know the OP's entire situation, but I knew in mine that it was a temporary problem that just needed to be worked through - DH dreamed since he was very young of being his own boss and took it very hard when that dream didn't look like it would pan out because work is a huge part of his identity. Seeing our household income fall by half and finding himself suddenly "worthless" in the working world was something that hit him very hard. And the fact is, me dwelling on every thing he'd done or left undone that annoyed me was making the situation worse. If you'd asked me then I probably would have said he was always that way, just not as bad when he was working, but that would have been my frustration and anger talking.

I think that if the genders were reversed here the opinions would be very different. If it was the wife who, after some major life event that caused her to question her identity and undermined her self-worth, was withdrawn and not a functioning member of the household the chorus would be "Get her help", not "Leave her lazy butt". There is still very much a double standard when it comes to these things, with men expected to be tougher and being judged more harshly for not just sucking it up and going on with life.

Thank you for reiterating that. To me that makes the difference. It's temporary. In OP's case (and in mine) it has been going on for YEARS. And I think that's where the breakdown comes. As someone else mentioned re the OP, he can find time to whatever he wants, but nothing else. Picking and choosing when to use his excuses. With a track record of years, it's hard (and I believe foolish) to believe it will ever change. Again, I'm very happy it worked out for your, your husband, your marriage and your family. Unfortunately not everyone gets that happy ending.

 

[canopynut66]

yep make sure your check is going to your account only then make positivialy sure your belly is full of this man and his issues or you will be back and forth and that is very hard on the kids...you know already he will not be paying support and in Indiana now they have living arrangements for those guys....many used to say well they can't pay if in jail WELL they weren't anyhow. and doubtful you would have to pay him alimony..that is for very wealthy people with huge assets and that rare. normally I would suggest counseling but you said he won't go but you still should as it helps us just to go alone. my ex blames the counsler for our divorce.. of course nothing was his fault. but I was doing same thing taking care of three kids and every thing plus him. the freedom was unreal. and always remember another person ONLY gets away with what they can----------------------------------------and it then becomes their life style

 

[Hannathy]

I think there is a difference between it being (or allowing it to become) a standing habit, as so many helicopter parents do, and helping a loved one through a tough time. And I don't think it is a question of them not being smart enough to know better. I think depression gets in the way of grasping the obvious solutions, and that defensiveness and resentment get in the way of working out of that mindset.

I don't know the OP's entire situation, but I knew in mine that it was a temporary problem that just needed to be worked through - DH dreamed since he was very young of being his own boss and took it very hard when that dream didn't look like it would pan out because work is a huge part of his identity. Seeing our household income fall by half and finding himself suddenly "worthless" in the working world was something that hit him very hard. And the fact is, me dwelling on every thing he'd done or left undone that annoyed me was making the situation worse. If you'd asked me then I probably would have said he was always that way, just not as bad when he was working, but that would have been my frustration and anger talking.

I think that if the genders were reversed here the opinions would be very different. If it was the wife who, after some major life event that caused her to question her identity and undermined her self-worth, was withdrawn and not a functioning member of the household the chorus would be "Get her help", not "Leave her lazy butt". There is still very much a double standard when it comes to these things, with men expected to be tougher and being judged more harshly for not just sucking it up and going on with life.

I agree with you completely.

If you want to get divorced go ahead and use this as your reason but if you love your DH and wouldn't dream of leaving them when they have a true problem, then get him help, real help, before you give up on him.