I think I may be heading vegetarian

[Mrs. Darcy]

To OP,

As you can see there are many opinions on eating meat. You need to do some research and make the decision that is best for you.


Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.

Thank you, Cooky.

 

[Mrs. Darcy]

I know the person doing the slaughtering doesn't thank the animal for it's life, but in our family, we thank God every day for the food on our table. Isn't that the same thing?

Cowboy, I understand because my whole family eats meat, I love to eat meat and I never gave it a second thought. I still don't know if I'll stop eating meat. I have nothing against anyone eating it, I want people to enjoy it when they eat it, I always do. I just wondered if anyone else had an experience like I did, seeing inhumane slaughter and making them think they can't stomach eating meat anymore.

I don't know if I'm becoming vegetarian. I'll figure it out.

Thanks again for the experiences and opinions.

 

[Planogirl]

Good luck with your decision. I tried to go mostly vegetarian once but my stomach couldn't handle it. I survive best on meat and veggies and fruit. Grains are my downfall.

I studied the methods of killing livestock and while I'm not thrilled with it I do believe that these are usually more humane than many think. The bolt in the head method is so sudden that supposedly the cow is just out. I hope that that's true. I'm troubled by how chickens are treated though.

 

[Vegcentric]

I didn't read through all 5 pages of the thread, so I apologize if this was already said, but...

Arm yourself with some great reading material! Go to your library, or book store and ask for some vegan and vegetarian books. Off the top of my head, I own:

The Kind Diet by Alicia Silverstone
Get it Ripe by Jae Steele (This one is great because she goes into a lot about nutrition)
Eating Animals by Jonthan Safran Foer
The Face On Your Plate by Jeffery Moussaieff Masson

For just cooking, Veganomicon and Viva Vegan are both good stuff.

What I did when I went vegetarian was I did a lot of research. The Idiot's Guide to Vegan Living is great for both vegetarians and vegans. Another important thing is to not cave into those who haven't decided to make the transition for themselves. I've encountered a lot of people who thought I was being ridiculous, or just plain wrong or stupid. Head over to veggieboards.com, dip your toes in, ask some questions. Listen to your heart, and your mind first. Do what you feel is inherently best for you. Good luck.

 

[Laura]

I've been a vegetarian for 10 years. What did it for me was finding out the environmental effects raising animals has on our planet. Basically we grow food to give to animals that we then kill. Very inefficient use of our resources. Vegetarians shun meat for lots of reasons, you'll find. We're not all alike. Some of us eat lots of fake meat, some of us don't. Some of us are vegetarian for religious reasons, some just don't like the taste. Some of us wear leather, some don't.

One thing that surprised me is how ridiculous some meat-eaters will act when they find out I don't eat meat. What's it to them if I eat dead animals or not? And of course this thread is an example of some of the arguments (some more reasoned than others ) against going vegetarian.

I found these to be helpful books:
Diet for a New America
Living Vegetarian for Dummies

There is a magazine called Vegetarian Times. They have a great recipe search online: http://www.vegetariantimes.com/recipes/

 

[Vegcentric]

Vegetarians like to think they are saving some poor animal from a horrible fate, when the reality is they are murders themselves. You can try to rationalize it all you want, but pulling a vegetable out of the ground and eating it ends its life. Look up the dictionary definition of life, a carrot counts as being alive. Just because the carrot isn't cute and doesn't scream while vegetarians murder it doesn't change the fact that it was murdered.

If you want to not eat meat, that is great. Just don't act superior, because you aren't.

Sorry for the double post, but I'm feeling lazy and don't feel like editing my last post to address this.

Seriously? You are comparing a sentinent creature - a pig, a chicken, a cow to a carrot? The big, big difference here is that animals have a nervous system. They suffer. They have emotions. They feel pain. Carrots and other vegetables do not. I love it when omnivores try to argue with my food choices about how we aren't much better because we're killing vegetables, but this is probably the least harm you can do while still killing something that's alive. Yes, plants are alive. So are germs. Vegans and vegetarians aren't martyrs...they're trying to reduce the suffering of others, or they're doing it for health reasons, or for environmental.

 

[Cat0727]

Sorry for the double post, but I'm feeling lazy and don't feel like editing my last post to address this.

Seriously? You are comparing a sentinent creature - a pig, a chicken, a cow to a carrot? The big, big difference here is that animals have a nervous system. They suffer. They have emotions. They feel pain. Carrots and other vegetables do not. I love it when omnivores try to argue with my food choices about how we aren't much better because we're killing vegetables, but this is probably the least harm you can do while still killing something that's alive. Yes, plants are alive. So are germs. Vegans and vegetarians aren't martyrs...they're trying to reduce the suffering of others, or they're doing it for health reasons, or for environmental.

Yup, I've heard that ridiculous comparison before. I've once argued with someone who was saying killing our cells (sperm, skin, etc.) was the same as slaughtering animals.

 

[Vegcentric]

Yup, I've heard that ridiculous comparison before. I've once argued with someone who was saying killing our cells (sperm, skin, etc.) was the same as slaughtering animals.

I mean, I don't mean to be rude of course but I just think that comparison is kind of terrible in a way that it doesn't help anyone at all. Especially not the animals. Also, someone else mention B vitamins for a reason for eating meat...
The B vitamins can be found in meat, but they didn't start there. Because we people clean their veggies really well these days, there's no more B12 to be had there. I grow some of my own veggies organically and don't scrub them to death on purpose.

I'm still alive and doing quite well, too. I still think that the OP should get lots and lots of books on the subject to help her with her decision making so that she can listen to herself. Other vegans and vegetarians can be helpful of course, and so can omnivores when it comes to making a decision but for greater chances of success, books on the subject are definitely your friend, so you aren't getting too many differing opinions. It can be extremely overwhelming that way. Then once you've read to your heart's content, you can make up your mind.

I haven't read it yet though I planned to, but you can even read The Vegetarian Myth along with pro-vegetarian literature just to get another side of the spectrum.

 

[JessicaR]

Some of us eat lots of fake meat, some of us don't.

Can you please explain what fake meat means? Thanks!

 

[Vegcentric]

Can you please explain what fake meat means? Thanks!

I know you weren't asking me but I thought since I'm around, I could answer that for you! Fake meat is food that is made to resemble and even taste like meat. Think...tofurky. Or even more current, Gardein products. They're also referred to as faux meat and meat analogs.

I don't eat much, but I don't avoid it either. I like tofurky sausages sometimes on rare occasion. It's another vegan/vegetarian source of protein and B12. I don't think all of it has B12, but the kind I would buy had it.

Here's a link to the gardein website for more information: http://www.gardein.com/

I'm not a huge fan of their stuff. I love their crispy tenders, and I haven't tried some of the other products so I can't comment too much on those, but I didn't like the santa fe chick'in or the tuscan breasts.

 

[MelanieC]

I'm vegan, but only for a few months now. I first became vegetarian and just started to buy began cookbooks because the recipes were usually the type I cooked anyways. I prefer recipes with whole natural ingredients, so it's a great fit for me. It's been so much easier than I ever imagined.

For me, it's a choice I make and I do what makes me happy. I don't care if others eat meat, and I'm the only one in my family who is. In the end, you have to know yourself and decide if it's something you want to pursue. Personally, I feel so much better physically and mentally. It makes me a happier person knowing I'm doing my own part in helping the animals and the planet. I rarely have the low blood sugar issues I used to have ( only if I wait too long to eat). Also, I don't have the stomach issues I used to have, so although I became vegetarian/vegan for the animals, I've benefited health wise.

I'm very lucky that I have a very supportive family. That alone makes it easier. I'm at Disney right now, and I've found eating vegan has been pretty easy. Besides for the little extra time for the CS places to make the food (alterations like that are treated like allergies, so the manager or chef makes the food), it's been so easy.

Good luck in your decision. There ate quit a few vegetarian/vegans here on the Dis. Don't hesitate to ask any of us for more info. Having others to talk to about it makes it easier.

A wonderful book to read is the kind diet by Alicia Silverstone. She talks in a way that appeals to the everyday person. She talks about flirting with not eating meat, and it's a great way to try it out with no commitments.

 

[quasar4legs]

I've been either vegetarian or vegan for over 10 years and made the decision out of concern for animals, the environment and my own health.

I see a dietitian once or twice a year just make sure I am on track with what I'm eating (I also need to eat gluten free and my son has food intolerances so it gets a bit complicated for our family).

Personally, I want to live a non-violent life and for me a part of that is respecting all life and not being complicate in the misery that is caused by farming, fishing etc. I understand not everyone feels the same way.

To the OP, Good luck making the decision and remember you can start with baby steps.

Hugs
Quasar

 

[southbarringtonjen]

Seriously? You are comparing a sentinent creature - a pig, a chicken, a cow to a carrot? The big, big difference here is that animals have a nervous system. They suffer. They have emotions. They feel pain.

I love how vegetarians like to change the rules to fit their crazy belief system. I'm better than you because I'm preventing the suffering of animals. Whatever. You are ending a life. It is that simple. What is even more shocking is how little you value life. A carrot doesn't have pain so it is OK to kill it? I see how it works, you modify reality to fit your perception. Try to rationalize it however you want, you are still ending a life for your own selfish needs. But apparently your act of murder is somehow more acceptable than meat eaters doing the same thing?

If you want to be a vegetarian, go right ahead. Just don't preach moral superiority.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I love how vegetarians like to change the rules to fit their crazy belief system. I'm better than you because I'm preventing the suffering of animals. Whatever. You are ending a life. It is that simple. What is even more shocking is how little you value life. A carrot doesn't have pain so it is OK to kill it? I see how it works, you modify reality to fit your perception. Try to rationalize it however you want, you are still ending a life for your own selfish needs. But apparently your act of murder is somehow more acceptable than meat eaters doing the same thing?

If you want to be a vegetarian, go right ahead. Just don't preach moral superiority.

I don't think I'm above anyone for what I do, or don't eat, but animals can feel pain, and have emotions, plants don't. There is a big difference.

 

[Planogirl]

I love how vegetarians like to change the rules to fit their crazy belief system. I'm better than you because I'm preventing the suffering of animals. Whatever. You are ending a life. It is that simple. What is even more shocking is how little you value life. A carrot doesn't have pain so it is OK to kill it? I see how it works, you modify reality to fit your perception. Try to rationalize it however you want, you are still ending a life for your own selfish needs. But apparently your act of murder is somehow more acceptable than meat eaters doing the same thing?

If you want to be a vegetarian, go right ahead. Just don't preach moral superiority.

I'm a happy meat eater but I can't follow this comparison either. I don't think that the carrot cares or knows what you're doing while the cow does.

I don't think that either side is superior. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[southbarringtonjen]

I don't think I'm above anyone for what I do, or don't eat, but animals can feel pain, and have emotions, plants don't. There is a big difference.

The only difference is you are inventing excuses. So using your logic someone with a spinal cord injury and are brain dead are equivalent to a carrot and their life is "less" than a cows? Keep inventing excuses to justify your opinion. There is a reason having feelings and experiencing pain are not a requirement of life according to the dictionary.

 

[bicker]

This conflict is truly reflective of similar aspects of Western society going back ages. We've had a long history of self-centered and often-destructive subjugation and exploitation. Women, along with children, were treated, at times, as the property - chattle - of their men. In a similar vein, the powerful dominated the weak, making them into slaves, and effectively exacting one's own comfort and pleasure by exploiting those slaves. We've seen this happen also at the macro-level, with power nations subjugating and exploiting weaker nations, fostering the prosperity and wealth of the dominating nations, as the result of an imbalance, where the dominated nation get far less for what is taken from them than the conversion of what is taken into wealth reveals as the true value.

So people indoctrinated into our society's general attitude of exploiting to get what you want can reasonably be expected to figure: "Why not exploit the animals, as well?"

Exploitation of this sort relies on a mental convenience, essentially considering the target of exploitation as if it were a product that the exploit-er made, or a service that the exploit-er made created, that the exploiter offers for sale. They reduce these living, breathing beings into "things" - (again) chattle - to be exploited, without recognizing the fundamental difference between products or services, on the one side, and people or animals, on the other side.

This recognition that other people and animals, regardless of where they're from, are fundamentally different from goods and services in the consumer marketplace, is what motivates a lot of folks to become vegetarians.

 

[NeverlandClub23]

I've been a vegetarian for 10 years. What did it for me was finding out the environmental effects raising animals has on our planet. Basically we grow food to give to animals that we then kill. Very inefficient use of our resources.

I had never thought about it from this perspective before until my brother (always has been and always will be an avid meat eater) was telling me about an article he read about the emissions polluting the Earth from cows. Very interesting.

 

[badcramps]

The only difference is you are inventing excuses. So using your logic someone with a spinal cord injury and are brain dead are equivalent to a carrot and their life is "less" than a cows? Keep inventing excuses to justify your opinion. There is a reason having feelings and experiencing pain are not a requirement of life according to the dictionary.

A brain dead person is DEAD! We still treat their body with some degree of respect because they *used to be* a person--but now they are just an empty body. (But of course what counts as respect differs from culture to culture--cannibalizing one's family members *is* a form of respect in some cultures...just not ours.) But no, of course I don't think DEAD bodies in themselves have any moral standing--I think the person who the body once belonged to had moral standing to decide what happens to the body after their death. (I don't think carrots have any inherent moral standing either--do you? )

As to your suggestion in an earlier post that animals are no different morally than vegetables and that animal suffering simply doesn't matter--well I have to assume either you're a psychopath if you really believe that, or you just like to ruffle vegetarians' feathers. If the latter, oh haha, never heard that one before. How witty.

This is why I say if you're not just being difficult for the fun of it, that you must be psychopath. Because even a five year old could reflect for 30 seconds on how we routinely treat vegetables and realize that obviously it is not morally okay to treat animals that way. Lots of Americans hollow out the insides of pumpkins (or are pumpkins one of those really a fruit vegetables?) and carve faces into them on Halloween--are you really suggesting there is no difference between doing that to a pumpkin and to a dog and that the suffering a dog would feel when having that done to it is of no ethical concern?

If hollowing out and carving up a dog (or any other mammal) is not morally the same as making a jack-o-lantern, then what is the difference? On your view apparently there is no difference, but to any sane person can see the difference is that the dog is sentient, can feel pain, can suffer, has emotions--just like it's not okay to carve up a human child because it freakin hurts!. And if causing horrendous pain to an innocent being for fun isn't wrong in the case of dogs, why would it be wrong in the case of humans?

Also speaking of acting superior, you seem to think you are smarter than those of us (everyone but you I would think given the pumpkin case) who think that vegetables and animals are morally different. I assume you must have studied ethics in a serious way then. I'd like to hear more about what sort of coherent ethical view you have according to which animals count for nothing more than carrots. I've been teaching college level ethics courses for 5 years now and I can't say I've ever come across a serious ethical contender that suggests that carving a dog is no different than carving a pumpkin (since, of course, for an ethical view to be taken seriously it can't have implications that seem outright insane to 99.9999999% of the population).

Perhaps Descartes would have been okay with this thought as he thought animals were mere machines, though I'm not sure what his view on torturing these "machines" was. (In any case, current science seems to offer no reason to think that dogs are any less able to feel pain than humans so it seems Descartes was simply wrong about this. If dogs are just machines then humans must just be machines too.) Kant, I'm sure you know, thought animals had no intrinsic worth since they were not rational beings. But he still thought that torturing animals was wrong because it would train humans to be insensitive to suffering and eventually those humans would then begin to treat humans badly as well.

You sound very much like some of my 18 year old "I'm smarter than all of these brilliant philosophers of yore" students. They like to say crazy things too just to see what everyone else in the class will do. One of them used to claim that he would totally kill and eat human babies if only he wouldn't get caught and thrown in jail. I think you and him would get along well!

 

[disneyfav4ever]

Badcramps, you stated that beautifully, and better then I ever could.