It's a bright and shiny new morning here in the sunblasted desert, and I feel like another round of
discernment Whack-A-Mole. In case anyone is wondering, I don't expect him to change his mind. I know he's not capable of doing so. My purpose here is to make sure that his arguments don't stand unopposed, and that they get exposed for the logically inconsistent, factually bereft tirades they are. Oh, and to knock him around a bit, too; he annoys me.
I apologize for the length of this post.
Lets not be disingenious now. Stop all your posturing and grandstanding and tell the WHOLE story about our exchange. On how I repeatedly PM'ed you asking for a rational discourse on the whole subject in a forum more suited for an honest exchange of ideas but you denied that request and now parade around claiming some kind of "victory". Nice try. But if that makes you feel better than more power to you and I am glad I could help your obviously damaged self esteem and self loathing as a direct consequence of the lifestyle choice that you have made.
Actually, you agreed to stay and debate through to some sort of resolution, and when you found yourself opposed, you scurried off with your tail between your legs, making a big show of your umbrage. Which I predicted you would, and which you'll do in this thread too. Prove me wrong.
Oh, and on the topic of damaged self esteem and self loathing,
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, man, you so don't know anything about me. Ego the size of all the Western states, big and shiny and bulletproof. Self-loathing is for people having much, much less fun with their lives.
You have no problems with this because you know the key to gay rights in this country is to normalize the homosexual lifestyle. It is ironic that liberals will scream to the top of lungs when they claim that conservatives are trying to force their beliefs on others while at the same time they are trying to normalize teh homosexual lifestyle and even have a mayor ignore the will of the people in his state and break the law and marry homosexuals. I would imagine you applauded that move.
Well, I believe that people should base their opinions on a thorough understanding of the facts, taking all sides of an issue into account. For generations, the evils of homosexuality have been all that anyone heard on this subject, and now there are opposing viewpoints being introduced. Unless you're a fan of making decisions based on ignorance, I don't see how that can be a bad thing.
I am sorry but experience does not equal fact nor is experience a basis for establishing the basis of why someone has homosexual urges.
Unless the fact you're trying to establish is the nature of someone's experience, in which case that person's testimony is paramount. And you're telling us that anyone who has direct experience with being homosexual is untrustworthy on this issue. It's no wonder you will never change your mind. You think everyone who disagrees with you is lying.
If you have been following along with this thread you will see where people have asked why people would choose to be homosexual. People will often make bad choices in their life that they know are fundamentally sinful and worng but then try and rationalize and justify this choice in order to overcome those feelings of self-loathing and overwhelming guilt.
You seem to have mastered psychobabble pretty well for someone who discounts the American Psychological Association's opinion on this matter.
Like I said before, I am not going to call you a liar because it is something you truly believe in but I will say your "experience" is not backed up by fact and your "experience" and that of others is a self serving mechanism to belive in the normalization of their lifestyle.
What fact? What studies, peer-reviewed and published studies, support the idea that being gay is a choice? That all the gay people in the world love the people they love just to piss you off? And make no mistake, when you tell me that my statements about my own life don't matter when we are discussing my life, you're calling me a liar. I know a lot more about me than you do. I'm one of my favorite subjects, after all.
You will see that the medical and scientific community has not proven their is a "gay" gene.
Let's nip this one in the bud, right now. The scientific community has not reached a consensus on the origins of homosexuality. But they're doing the research, and right now there are a lot of really interesting theories going around. None of them involve a single 'gay gene', but nothing's ever really that simple. The idea that a genetic predisposition can be triggered by environmental factors has long been scientifically accepted, and that's what scientists believe is the case with homosexuality. The specifics are being worked out, but here are a couple of articles that postulate some interesting theories.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6519
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn9413
Now, can you present any scientific evidence that I just sort of chose to be gay one day? Then stop acting like you have all the answers, and stop acting like all gay people are liars.
Like I may see a particularly mature 16 year old in a bikini on the beach and feel some sexual urges toward her. However, I have a choice rather to act on those particularly inappropriate urges.
Before you retreat from this thread, claiming people have been mean to you, take a moment to consider that you have just equated my love for my life partner, who cares for me deeply and supports me no matter how difficult life becomes, who I love and respect and admire, to pedophilia. That's as insulting as it gets.
Oh yes, the same APA that once called homosexuality a disorder but reversed their position due to political pressure.
I used to believe in Santa Claus. I grew up and learned that I was wrong. I changed my opinion.
You may want to consider doing the same.
I could point you to studies by the folks at NARTH but of course you will discount them as another homophobic group.
Why should I consider evidence from them when you won't consider the American Psychological Association or the American Psychiatric Association as reliable sources? Can you give me a reason why they can't be trusted? Other than that they changed their mind on the issue when they were presented with evidence that refuted their earlier position? Oh, and do you have any proof that the reason they changed their positions was due to political pressure and not to scientific research?
But as a poster said earlier, you will discount the experiences of 100s of ex-gay men but then ask us to believe in your experiences or the experiences of millions of gay men. SO we are give more credit to your experiences to that of a recovering homosexual? Which one is it?
When I see studies detailing the experiences of these ex-gay people, saying that they go on to live happy, healthy heterosexual lives in a significant portion of the theraputic cases, in peer-reviewed scientific journals, then I'll consider their opinions. Meanwhile, I've never met one of these well-adjusted ex-gay people, so I can't base my opinion on their testimony. On the other hand, there's considerable evidence (see both the APAs quoted above) that this approach to therapy does much more damage than good.
Are you going to engage in an hoenst discussion without all your grandstanding, name calling amd posturing? Are you going to back up your arguments beyond your self serving subjective "experiences"? Are you willing to engage me in a better forum for us to exchange ideas or are you more interested in posturing? The invitation is always open if you are truly interested in having an open discussion. But we both know that is not your intent or motivation.
And your motivations are quite transparent as well. I want to have a public discussion to debunk your preposterous claims, and you want to retreat to the shadows. What do you have to fear from having a little light cast on your arguments? After all, I can't insult you more than you've insulted me by comparing my love for my partner to pedophilia.
What country do you live in? Last I checked in the US "most" people disagree with gay marriage? Most states have amendments that will not allow gay marriage.
Oh, but wait... I thought you said that the millions of gay people who say that being gay is not a choice were balanced out by the 'hundreds' of ex-gays who say that it is. That means that having a majority doesn't matter, right? But here you say that a having a majority makes you right... oh, man, my head hurts.
Just because I may disagree with homosexuality does not mean I hate the person that practices it. I have friends that are not Christians and engage in sinful lifestyle choices but i dont hate them but at the same time i will tell them about it.
You must be hella fun at parties.
As long as people like you try to shout down and engage in name calling and label everyone who opposes your case and agenda as hateful, it is very difficult to have an honest exchange. But people like you are never interested in that anyway.
It is always good to see the most tolerant among us exercising that tolerance to an opposing viewpoint.
Escape sequence engaged! Escape in 3... 2... 1...
What a mess! Mother Jesus?
I bet less than 5% has to do with Disney. 
