I need some more ideas please!

[golfgal]

They are waking up so tired. That is why I think they need the sleep.

About the nap, my DS 7 would still take a nap if he could! Just like his mama!

I don't think I can do very much about the nap, this is the time the daycare cleans up from the morning, gets snacks out, and generally has a break. I don't begrudge them the break, I know they need it. But I will try pushing their bedtime later and see what happens. I still wish I had some way of keeping them in bed. Even when it's just them 2 and their dolls (snuggies) they will get up to play with them and turn on the light!

I am sure they are tired because they are too wide awake from a 2 hour afternoon nap to fall asleep at a good time at night so they are not getting the continuous sleep they need which is why you need to cut out or at least DOWN their nap so they can go to sleep around 8 or so in the evening. I don't buy the "needs a break" argument at the daycare. If this is the case, the kids that don't NEED a nap should be in a separate room doing a quite activity like watching a movie, coloring, reading books, etc. or even not a quite activity but something away from the sleeping kids. Parents do this day in and day out with kids that don't nap, there is no reason day care providers can't too. They should have enough people in the toddler room to cover breaks, etc. and handle it that way.

 

[FredinFL]

A two hour nap at 4 years old sounds like waaaaaaaay to much nap time. You are not going to get them to sleep at 7 with that amount of nap time. Your choices are to wake them up earlier, get the school to cut down on nap time (really, I've never seen a place with a two hour nap time) or put them to bed later, say 8PM. Maybe by putting them in later, they'll be more tired and ready for bed.

Also, limit any caffeine in the evening, and no tv or video before bed.

 

[Nette]

you should definitely be able to get them to stay in their beds, but if they are not used to you enforcing the rules it will take some time.

I would probably start w/a chart. If they don't get out of bed for 5 nights they can pick out a small toy. (or something like that.. maybe leave a small toy under their pillow any night they don't get up.)

If they are turning on the light I would take out the bulb.

If they continue to play with their toys at night then the toys need to come out of their room. Take a few out every night they don't listen until there is nothing left.

I would move their bed time to 8:30. Maybe let them "read" in bed 'till 9. Get them a CD player and put on a story or some music. There have been nights when I know my kids have been awake in bed for some time but that's life. You go to bed at 9pm and I don't want to hear from you again.

Good luck.. time to get tough I'm afraid.

You need to get The Sleep Fairy book. It rewards the kids for staying in bed. We did it w/ DD, and she finally learned to stay in bed and quit asking for a million drinks and potty breaks.

I also agree that you should consider changing their bedtime to 8ish. 9 and later is just too late for a kid that young. My DD8 (almost 9) still goes to bed at 8... sometimes earlier if she is really tired. I also realize that mom and dad NEED some down time after kids go to bed, and you can't get that if they're up until 9:30 or 10 every night.

I guess you will have to talk to daycare about the nap. I'm not sure what else you can do at this point... Maybe they are taking such a long nap because they are so tired from staying up so late. I wonder if there is a way you can "reset" them.

What do they do on weekends? Do they nap? Go to bed on time?

 

[ChrizJen]

I have a 4-yr-old. We start getting her ready for bed at 7 (bath, change into jammies, snuggle on the couch with books, etc.) Then she's usually in bed sleeping between 8 and 8:30. I have to drag her out of bed at 6:30 every morning. (She just doesn't wake easily, but once she's up, she's her normal happy self.)
Then at preschool they have a mandatory 2-hr rest time after lunch. (It's fairly standard for that age, from what I've read and heard. So don't feel like your daycare is necessarily doing something wrong, OP) They don't have to sleep, but they are required to have "quiet time" on their cot with a book or a quiet toy if they choose not to sleep. She usually ends up sleeping for about 45 minutes of that.

OP, it sounds like your girls are just needing less sleep. I'd go with others and maybe push bedtime back about an hour and see if that helps. Also, if you don't already have a "winding down" routine before bed, I'd try that too.

Good luck!! We've run the gamut on sleep problems with our little one. We feel like we finally have her sleeping well though. (please knock on wood that it stays that way!!)

 

[dimimi]

I can't believe the daycare will not allow them to nap, but I would ask them to WAKE them up at the required time...no more than a 1 1/2 hour nap and let them look at books or relax while the other kids wake up. (Most daycares have their employees take their lunches while the kids nap)

I agree with a few other posters. Keep them active after dinner and put them to bed at 8. My kids never slept that much at 4 either. Maybe you can tell the kids they can only look at books when they are put to bed...no toys in the bed? (One of my kids liked to go to bed listening to books on tape. It worked for us, but it is a bad habit to get into.... listening to something going to bed. Now my son goes to sleep listening to the TV and he's 17) I would bet at daycare they go to sleep listening to soft music.

 

[zoemurr]

I used to work at a daycare and can defend them a bit.

We had a room of 21 3-4yr olds. Some of them really needed a nap. It was between 1.5 and 2hrs of quiet time where the staff took turns having their lunch break. The kids were required to lay down, but of course we could not get them to sleep, although we did rub their backs and try. We were already understaffed during that time so there was not another room to put the "non nappers". If we allowed them to stay up then they would disturb the kids that did need to sleep (and then you would have another set of parents unhappy.) After laying down for 30min or so they could get up (by then the sleepers were out cold) and play quietly at a table.

We did have a few parents ask us to wake them up after an hour and that always went badly. The kids had to be dragged off the cot and was miserable the rest of the afternoon. Once I had a girl fall back asleep in the middle of the floor.

Most daycare workers make $8 or so an hour and it can be very stressful. There was nothing as heavenly as a day when we could get all 21 of them asleep.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I've asked on here before about my twins and their sleeping habits and you all gave me some good advice. But I'm about at my wits end!

I have 4 year old twin girls and they are put to bed at 7:00pm and get up at 6:30. At daycare they get a 2 hour nap. However they don't go to sleep at 7:00, oh no. They party until 10:00 at least each night.

So it sounds like they are getting too much sleep but according to the guidelines they are just getting enough. I can't change their nap, at the daycare everyone goes down at the same time. I have tried to separate them and that is more work than putting them down together. I have messed with their bedtime, no luck. They seem really happy to be in their room playing or reading.

Right now I go in every 15 or 30 minutes and separate them and tuck them back in, get the toys out of their bed, remind them to be quiet, and go out. This is driving me crazy! It has been going on for about 6 months! Does anyone have any good ideas??????

My daughter who is only 15 months gets that much sleep NO WAY does a 4 year old need that. Can you ask the day care to shorten their naps? Why are they letting them sleep so long?

 

[golfgal]

I used to work at a daycare and can defend them a bit.

We had a room of 21 3-4yr olds. Some of them really needed a nap. It was between 1.5 and 2hrs of quiet time where the staff took turns having their lunch break. The kids were required to lay down, but of course we could not get them to sleep, although we did rub their backs and try. We were already understaffed during that time so there was not another room to put the "non nappers". If we allowed them to stay up then they would disturb the kids that did need to sleep (and then you would have another set of parents unhappy.) After laying down for 30min or so they could get up (by then the sleepers were out cold) and play quietly at a table.

We did have a few parents ask us to wake them up after an hour and that always went badly. The kids had to be dragged off the cot and was miserable the rest of the afternoon. Once I had a girl fall back asleep in the middle of the floor.

Most daycare workers make $8 or so an hour and it can be very stressful. There was nothing as heavenly as a day when we could get all 21 of them asleep.

Um, it's not about you, it's about doing what is right for the kids. If parents are having issues getting their kids to bed at night because they napped too long at daycare, the daycare needs to adjust. It isn't healthy for the kids.

 

[Poohforyou]

Will daycare allow them to look at a book quietly on their cots? I imagine they're probably in the pre-school class and I know when my DD was that age her center allowed this since many of the kids weren't really napping. I know our state guidelines required a 2 hour rest time so there wasn't much that could be done about that but I think allowing the kids down time is a good thing.

I also think 7pm is a little early. I'd try pushing it an hour and see what happens. I'd also try letting them sleep wherever they wanted in their room. It may be that your going into their room gets them hyped up and takes them longer to settle down then if you just let them be. I could be way off but it might be worth a shot.

 

[TheColtonsMom]

Either move their bedtime or move their daycare to a place that hears what you need. Those are the only 2 real options.

My now 6 year old son gave up afternoon naps at 2 1/2 and at about 3 1/2 he "found" his groove. He wakes at 7am and goes to bed at 9pm (actually falls asleep at about 930) so what he personally needs is about 9 1/2 hours of sleep a night. He wakes up "sleepy" just like his Mom he is a slow starter but once he has 10-15 minutes he is raring to go.

Just because they seem tired when they wake up doesn't necessarily mean they didn't get enough sleep... Some of us, me included juat were not made as morning people no matter how much or how little sleep I get I will never be a smiling bouncy morning person, It will always take me anywhere from 10-30 minutes to be fully "awake" it is just a fact of my life.

 

[RNMOM]

If they are sharing a room, try putting their beds at a right angle so their heads are sharing the same corner. Give them an hour each night for cool down that they can read, perhaps to each other, play quietly or just talk. After the hour, turn out the lights and let them talk quietly together if they nned to. Just make a rule that they remain in their beds and the lights be off, except for a night lite. Relax a little and just try giving them a little responsibility for getting themselves to sleep.

 

[MomRN]

My son's daycare (which is owned by my MIL) has the mandatory "rest" period. I don't agree with it, but with my husbands and I schedule we rarely use the daycare.

Anyway, my ds is 4 and stays up until midnight and wakes up at 9am and might take a nap if he's had a busy day or is ill.

I work night shift and the whole family is naturally night owls. Unfortunately for all of us, with kindergarten starting in the fall, we will need a new routine. I am hoping for 9pm-7am.

 

[clh2]

FWIW - my DD is almost 17...

Naps at daycare SUCKED when she was 4. I went as far as looking up state regulations and had lengthy discussions with the owner of the daycare she attended. DH and I went to a parenting seminar on behavior issues with children.

The state (Wis) reg for daycares is - the kiddos need a 30 minute "downtime" i.e. laydown for 30 minutes. The daycare had her laying down until she slept for 30 minutes (which would take forever for DD) and then they would let her sleep away the afternoon. We had a very difficult time getting DD to go to bed at night. And - it really was tied to nap time at daycare.

On the last day the DD was 4 - I took her sleeping bag home. Once DD didn't take naps anymore - the bedtime problems went away.

OP - sorry you've got to endure this. I would definitely speak to the day care owner/manager. Keep at them - remember they are getting paid for providing a service for you. There are very few 4 year olds that need a 2-hour nap. Ask if they could wake them up earlier - i.e. after 1 hour.

 

[anniemae]

When my friend used to have her 4 y/o son in daycare and it was the same as a pp said. He would fall into a deep sleep and the staff would just let him snooze for hours. As a result, he would not go to sleep at night.

I think she talked to the teacher and asked her not to let him fall asleep, but he could play on his mat with some quiet toys. The teacher agreed and let him do that. If he did fall asleep, she asked the teacher to wake him after about a half hour.

 

[proud_canadian]

My DD is 4 and always loved her sleep. However, she hasn't napped on weekends for about a year. Around that time she also stopped napping at daycare. She would once in awhile, but most days just "rested". Eventually last fall they gave up and started shipping her to the older classroom during nap time, so she didn't disturb the sleepers as there was no way she would nap.

She does go to bed at 7pm or sometimes sooner (6:45 ish), but we wake her up at 6:15 am for daycare. She doesn't mind waking up, but sleeps longer on weekends. She never naps unless she is really sick now.

So I don't think your overnight schedule is unreasonable. But as long as they are napping it sounds like you will have to be more flexible.

For what it's worth, my almost 7 year old has the same schedule, however she doesn't always fall right asleep at 7pm (my 4 year old does). When the older girl isn't tired, she is allowed to play DS or read her books quietly until she's tired (20 to 30 min generally and only a couple of times a week).

Work with the daycare, maybe they can let your DD's read books, or do puzzles, or go to a classroom for older kids during that time. You also might need to shop around and consider another daycare that is more flexible.

I understand the staff like some downtown, but it is their job and it isn't fair to force a kid to nap, who doesn't need one, just so they get a break.

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

I also think they are getting too much sleep. I think your twins have officially slept more that my 15yo son in his entire life.

I am constantly trying to get him to sleep more, but the doctors are adamant that some people just do not need as much sleep as others.

You got some really great advice here, if you can't get rid of the nap at daycare I would see if they could be allowed to read for an hour during that time quietly and up their bedtime. If you make a big thing about them being bigger now, getting a new bedtime, how great it is, hopefully they will take it as a privledge and go to bed. A new bedtime routine might help also. With summer coming along, I think a nice walk in the evening would be great for you and the kids.