I love credit cards so much!

[SouthFayetteFan]

Just called about cancelling my Marriott Rewards card. I am kind of on the fence about cancelling. I didn't get a good upgrade offer for the new card. When I called, they didn't give me any retention offer so I eventually said I would think about it and call back. What are the chances of getting a retention offer if I call back later this month? I have until the 30th to cancel and get my annual fee refunded. My thought is that if they would waive the annual fee or even reduce it, then I would keep the card until next year. Then I would cancel and apply for the new Marriott card, since I would be eligible for a bonus again.

I’ve never had success with a retention on Marriott cards. They always point to the free night and that’s it those calls are always a bummer lol!

 

[mfly]

How’s your mom’s double dip?

@mfly
Wondering too

You all were right - the pending CSR was a credit limit issue. I figured as much, but she didn’t want to call - she wanted to see if it would resolve itself. It didn’t.

She got a call yesterday about the application: the agent said they needed to move credit around from her other Chase cards (with the approval of the CSP + the ridiculously high limits on her exisiting Chase cards, she was right at 30% of income). He did so, then just before submitting the application noticed that she had just been approved for the CSP. He didn’t try to submit - he just said I don’t think you can be approved for both, she said ok, hung up.

Based on the data points @Lain so kindly researched and posted, I’m hopeful that she can still call back and ask that they try to submit the application, even though the CSP was already approved. There are a handful of data points on reddit supporting this. I finally have talked her in to calling, she’s just waiting until tonight when I can come coach her through it in the background. Her credit limits have now been lowered, so she shouldn’t have any obstacles if she can just get the agent to submit it.

Fingers crossed!

 

[Judique]

Has anyone been a platinum or gold SPG memeber and stayed at the Swolphin? What kind of perks did you get? I’m thinking about it for my next trip to World.

When I was gold I stayed there many times. I used to get upgraded to a balcony room, and often I got the club level but I don't know if they have the lounge right now as it went away when I was still staying there. I also got a large junior suite one visit. My stays were at the Swan which I preferred. At Dolphin I received no upgrade that I remember but I only had 2 stays - Swan I had probably 15 stays. The Swan's rooms are larger and it had queen beds.

 

[pillow]

I don’t think you are crazy to go for Platinum. I’m thinking when my status runs out to MS it too.

Are you willing to MS? A PNC checking and savings is 4k and then a BMO (checking, savings and money market is 3k)

Idk how to help out with the Plastiq questions, but if you can just fund the bank accounts and leave the Plastiq on ur CIP that maybe better.

DH and I have both already done PNC (was the checking account I believe), so that one is out unfortunately. BMO??? I'll have to take a look at DOC's bank bonus page again. I was just on there the other day, but nothing jumped out at me.

We can't do MO's at Walmart anymore, so I feel like our MS opportunities have dried up here.

 

[Lain]

I'm so excited! I just booked round-trip tickets to LAX for my son's 4th birthday on Southwest entirely with points. I was floored when I compared the cash price and saw how much I saved. Now I'm even more addicted to this.

So I've been silently following along with this thread (or trying to!) since my last posts. I decided I couldn't pass up the 30k SPG personal offer so I am currently working on that MSR. I will probably be using those points for our hotel in Anaheim.

I know you said you’ve been following along, but welcome, and I’m so glad you decided to post! You should do it more often.

Now I'm eyeing the CIC before it potentially goes away. I'd love to pick up some Disney GCs at 5x for our trip. I'm currently 3/24 (but plan to remove myself as an AU on DHs JetBlue card now that I have discovered I don't get the free bag or points rebate if he's not flying)

As long as you’re under 5/24, you’re eligible to be approved for the CIC. You will want to get that JetBlue AU card removed eventually, so you can open up another slot for one or more Chase cards.

This is what DoC has to say about getting Barclays to remove your AU account from your credit report:

The authorized user account needs to be closed for thirty days before Barclaycard will consider removing it from your credit report. Once this time period is over, you should be able to just send a message requesting the card be removed from your credit reports. This message should come from the authorized user and not the primary account holder (only the authorized user account needs to have been closed for thirty days). Barclaycard state that this will be done when the next statement closes.

I got the SPG personal on 4/16 am I ok to apply for the CIC next week?

Have you applied for any other Chase cards in the past 30 days? You need to be at 0 Chase applications in the past 30 days to apply for a Chase business credit card, or else you’ll almost certainly be denied.

As for your SPG personal, Amex takes about 1-2 statement cycles (so about 1-2 months) to report a new personal card to your credit reports. I got the SPG personal around the same time as you, and Amex still hasn’t reported the new card to my credit reports. I don’t think Amex even made a hard inquiry when I applied for the SPG personal. If the SPG personal still hasn’t reported by next week (is there a reason why you’re waiting?), and Amex didn’t do a hard pull on your application, Chase’s automated system won’t see the card or the inquiry, and won’t count it when processing your CIC application.

Random question, I bought something through the UR shopping portal. When and where do those points show up?

Thanks guys!

If it tracked properly and the purchase qualifies, points should show up in about a week or two on the UR portal that you clicked through under rewards activity for Shop through Chase.

 

[pillow]

Keep your eyes open for random good promotions too - esp. around holidays and really slow periods. I was able to pay for <$100 night stay at an airport hotel and got 5000 bonus points, stacked with a megabonus promotion that meant that by paying like $90, I got a night plus just about enough points for another award stay. Not something you'd want to do often, but if you are stuck for the last night or two, it can help.

Thanks - I've thought about mattress running, but generally when i crunch numbers, the MS route is cheaper. But perhaps with the right promotion, it will work. Will keep an eye out.

One thing I'm not clear on is when the elite night posts from the 3K credit card spend. I'm thinking I should complete all spend by 10/31 just to ensure the night posts by year end.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

I’ve never had success with a retention on Marriott cards. They always point to the free night and that’s it those calls are always a bummer lol!

Super helpful. This is what I needed to know. This is exactly what they did, pointed out the free night.

So do we know if upgrading to the new card will reset the 24 month window for the bonus? I only got the 10k offer. I could upgrade, get my 10k and then cancel before the end of the month potentially, but I wouldn't want to do that if it would mean waiting another 24 months to get a bonus again.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Super helpful. This is what I needed to know. This is exactly what they did, pointed out the free night.

So do we know if upgrading to the new card will reset the 24 month window for the bonus? I only got the 10k offer. I could upgrade, get my 10k and then cancel before the end of the month potentially, but I wouldn't want to do that if it would mean waiting another 24 months to get a bonus again.

DoC indicates it would NOT reset a 24 month clock. It makes sense to me - but at this point we obviously don’t have any hard data points. The upgrade bonus is not a signup bonus so you should be in the clear. I upgraded and am probably intending to cancel and apply at some point in the next 12-18 months.

 

[miztressuz]

I thought I was doing ok from being away over the weekend, there's didn't seem to be too much so I "took off" yesterday too for playing catchup on the thread as I realized I was only skimming posts before I went to class and not really reading them. Seemed to be a mistake, I should have kept skimming during class

We are a family of 5 and I still agree with you. A case of some ruining it for all. When we did the PP at MCO in January there was a man going in with no less than 6 associates. 6 in the morning and they went straight to the bar. It seemed a little silly. I did just get on and order a PP membership for DH. So glad we have both kept our CSR’s.

I think a few others mentioned this too and I agree completely it should be for immediate family. I think that might get hard to enforce, but it would weed out the obvious like the group you mentioned. And if it did that I think it would probably reduce both the expense for Chase and the overcrowding for the Lounge, which I'm sure is the reason(s) behind the change, but still make it a worthwhile benefit for family's looking at the beaucoup bucks AF. Wonder if folks make comments about it to Chase they may consider it, like Disney does sometimes when it gets backlash on policy changes.

Wait, the CIC has a 0% APR for the first 12 months. I have the money to pay the card off, but should I take advantage of the 0% and keep the money in my discover account earning 1.5% interest? This wouldn’t effect utilization because it’s a business card right? Having a balance does stress me out, but I’m not seeing another downside.

I'm doing that with my Discover card, I have 0% interest on purchases until 2/19 or something like that. It's a little weird not paying it off every month, but as long as I'm paying attention to the total spent and not going over my budget I'm happy to earn my piddling interest (1.6 - 2.2%) for as long as I can. Also, that gives me some room to hit bank or short term CD bonuses with the same money. It does require a little more tracking to make sure I'm not double spending money but for now I think it's worth the slight bump in my utilization. (from 3% to 5% so far)
I'm not sure if it does anything for folks in the 800's already but I had read not paying your cards off every month can increase your credit score and this is the only way I'm willing to do that. Thought it might offset the potential dips from inquiries and adding the HE loan, but being so high not sure if that will do anything. (seems counter intuitive to me, but I think I get the explanation however still think this might be for folks who ruined their credit as a way to show responsibility on the way back up)

Another random question. Eventually I’ll know all the answers and can stop pestering everyone! When you aren’t trying to get to your MSR, are there any cards in particular that give you the most bang for your buck? I have a CITI card that earns me total 2% and I always thought I was doing pretty good with that.

I think this all depends on what your goals are what card you use for non-category spend. 2% for non-cat spend is pretty good, I'm not familiar with Citi but if it's easy to redeem it doesn't sound wrong. I was putting it on my Discover card because I was planning to use the cashback on my next cruise which I planned to book with the Discover affiliated TA and I could get more bang for my buck there. Before that it was a Disney trip so I was putting everything non-cat on my Freedom card as anything I couldn't pay for with a discounted Disney GC would get charged to the Freedom and I'd use the UR's as cashback (since until recently it was my only UR card and that's really the only good way to use UR on that card ) When I'm done with my MSR it's going back to a different Discover card because I'm in my first year so that's my 2% card now. Sometimes we put it on my hubby's Marriott card if we know we have hotel stays coming up.
If we can still transfer UR's next year, and the CFU still exists, my plan is to downgrade a Sapphire into a CFU and then that will probably get all my non-cat spending for 1.5% back.

Lol, that would be ideal. I really don’t mind the values though. Yeah, SO and I sleep in separate beds since we always get stuck with the two double beds. And yeah they are uncomfortable and the pillows aren’t even real pillows, but the rooms are always clean and it’s so cheap. We are also never in the room. SO’s touring style kills me. We never go back to the room and relax or go swimming in the pool. My Disney style is not the norm though, we stay in values and get deluxe dining lol

I think that's awesome, you spend the money on what you like best and by staying at a value you can do that. We're a value resort but also value dining for Disney But we'll do the same for other things, we'll cheap out on a hotel room if we're literally only sleeping and showering there so we can get a good rental car because hubby does not fit into sub-compacts anymore. It was fine when we were in college and couldn't afford anything more he lived with it, but now that we have an actual paycheck he's getting a little snobby and would like to not sit in the back seat to be in the front seat (OT but that Shaq commercial he made for Buick Encore cracks me up, cuz if you look hard dude is really in the back seat. I'm pretty sure they built the car around him for that or poured him through the sunroof. Hubby's not big like Shaq but it's about the same visual when you get him into a sub-compact... there's no way he could drive a Smart fourtwo...)

Hey, I have a BCP through Amex. I don't have any MR earners. If I did would I be able to transfer my accumulated cash back and turn it into MRs like you can with the Chase trifecta? I am unfamiliar with MR's and they seem confusing but evaluating my options. Chase has provided for all my points needs thus far.

All hail the UR

I think there were a couple good answers to this but to confirm, their Cash cards are complete separate from MR cards. I think Chase is neat to do it the way they do where you actually earn UR which can be used for either cash back or as points. But AmEx did not go the same route.
MR's are probably about the same use as UR but you don't always get the same value's out of them. You can use MR for a stmt credit, but it's only .6 cpp whereas UR is 1 cpp. Same with gift card redemptions, stuff like Target or Walmart are at .6 cpp, AmEx GC's I think are .5 cpp, but some others like Home Depot are 1 cpp on MR, but UR is pretty much flat 1 cpp unless they do a sale and you get a discount so it could be ~1.1 cpp then. You can also use MR to buy things like iPods or golf clubs or whatnot but I don't even have a valuation on that because it never seemed like a good value, whenever I'd get a catalog and do the math I always came out ahead using the MR for a gift card to a store that sold the product than using MR directly.
You can transfer MR to travel partners or use MR to buy travel like UR, but again the valuations may be different so have to check to see what would get you more value before jumping in. I have to say they're not worse, but definitely different. And I agree, hail to the UR

Edit: Actually for MR I was a little wrong, it's not really a statement credit, you can use MR to pay for a purchase. So you have to have enough MR to cover the whole charge whereas with UR you just say how much you want to cash out as a stmt credit.

OK people. I have never known what LOL/24 is. I assume waaaaay over 5/24? Google is no help today.

Yeah - it’s a somewhat lazy way of saying you’re over 5/24. When asking for advice I always recommend people state their actual 5/24 status because there truly isn’t a good “definition” for it. I once had a guy tell me he was lol/24 and he was 7/24...ummmm no!

Basically I despise the term, but I’ll get off my soapbox now HAHA!

So I kinda liked LOL/24 and giggle a little when folks say it because I imagine it as so far outside of 5/24 it's laughable and there's no real way to get under in the foreseeable future cuz since it'll take so long to wait I may as well pick up the next a shiny card they dangle out there, kinda like magpies And then the cycle continues
Once I get all the Chase cards I want to keep, that might actually become a goal for me cuz it kinda seems fun
But I agree with you @SouthFayetteFan I would not define 7/24 as LOL, I think people have forgotten the original intent of LOL as Laugh Out Loud, as in so funny I'm sitting here at my computer all by myself with no one to hear and I still laughed out loud. If you had some hand clapping or desk slapping you added the ROTFL for good measure. Kids these days...

whats the appeal of your discover card over your freedom card? i have mine the other way around haha.

For me it's that Discover only has grocery stores this quarter but Chase has grocery + the Chase Pay/PayPal. Since there's other avenues for Chase and seemingly easy or quick ones at that, I can see focusing on Discover first.

...That makes 190k UR, 42k starpoint, and 68k IHG points. Can't compete with @SouthFayetteFan 's 1.3 million but it still makes me 1) happy at the thought of some free travel, 2)surprised at how easy it was to make all the MSR. Actually using the CC more has made it easier for me to keep track of the expenses and see what we are spending on.

Also add on the $700 on bank bonuses so far this year. So far very good year for free money....

First off Congrats! But your statement I bolded is my dual reason for liking CC's and putting everything I can on them. One's the points/CB but knowing where everything went and where is pretty even with that. For me, I'm a little odd in that cash seems to get spent faster because it's out of the account and doesn't need to be tracked anymore because it's just not there. So not that it's "free" money but kinda is because it's been taken out of the equation. And then I have trouble remembering where it went because it seems to go so fast. I actually log into my bank and CC accounts at least once a week just to keep tabs on things so we can adjust the budget if needed for the rest of the month. I hate seeing ATM transactions cuz then I have to find the receipts to remember to track the spend. And checks, I'm good if people cash them within a week, outside of that I tend to forget that money is floating out there and I can't really spend it. But if it was on the CC that's easy to see I need cash to cover that.

 

[speedyfishy]

DH and I have both already done PNC (was the checking account I believe), so that one is out unfortunately. BMO??? I'll have to take a look at DOC's bank bonus page again. I was just on there the other day, but nothing jumped out at me.

We can't do MO's at Walmart anymore, so I feel like our MS opportunities have dried up here.

You may not be comfortable with this, but when I asked on Reddit how many PNC accounts I could get someone said they were on their 8th account. You won’t get the bonus though.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

DoC indicates it would NOT reset a 24 month clock. It makes sense to me - but at this point we obviously don’t have any hard data points. The upgrade bonus is not a signup bonus so you should be in the clear. I upgraded and am probably intending to cancel and apply at some point in the next 12-18 months.

I assume the card number stays the same, so I should just be able to make a purchase with my current card rather than waiting on a new card to arrive, right?

 

[hsmamato2]

Ok - you have a very complex situation here haha. Regarding the cat 5 vs cat 8 cert...the weird problem you have is you aren't using all 7 nights. In theory it should cost you 90k to upgrade from a cat5 to a cat8 (15k x 6 nights + 1 night free). I don't think it matters that you aren't using all 7 nights...you'll probably still have to pay the 90k since it would be through a nights and flights.

I guess the real question here is would I trade 150k Marriott points for 70k SW RR points (310k-160k)...I would not... And actually now that I think about it...with the new transfer rates coming - you aren't really getting much by doing nights and flights (other than additional hassle).

The new Marriott=>Air program will be 60k Marriott = 25k Air Miles/Points. And when you aren't transferring in increments of 60k it will be 3:1. So you could turn 120k Marriott into 50k Southwest without a nights and flights later OR you could turn 150k Marriott into 60k Southwest. Yes you lose 10k vs. what you could do now...but you retain the flexibility now of leaving it in Marriott/SPG where you could use it for Swan, etc. - once you go to Southwest...you can't bring them back to Marriott. So I guess in summary - I wouldn't do the nights and flights if I were you...but I don't think it would be totally wrong if you decided the opposite

Im so slow on the uptake.... but I'm still trying to digest this info. where are you finding this info on the upcoming air transfer ratios? I totally believe you (you are a mathlete!) but I'm still thinkingggggg b/c I'm not a mathlete! And I really just want to get the best return for my limited points here.

 

[spacerangerqueen]

I know you said you’ve been following along, but welcome, and I’m so glad you decided to post! You should do it more often.

Thanks! This thread just moves so fast I spend my time reading instead of posting

As long as you’re under 5/24, you’re eligible to be approved for the CIC. You will want to get that JetBlue AU card removed eventually, so you can open up another slot for one or more Chase cards.

This is what DoC has to say about getting Barclays to remove your AU account from your credit report:

The authorized user account needs to be closed for thirty days before Barclaycard will consider removing it from your credit report. Once this time period is over, you should be able to just send a message requesting the card be removed from your credit reports. This message should come from the authorized user and not the primary account holder (only the authorized user account needs to have been closed for thirty days). Barclaycard state that this will be done when the next statement closes.

Great info, thanks! I used my card for a flight next week so I will probably wait until I get back to cancel.

Have you applied for any other Chase cards in the past 30 days? You need to be at 0 Chase applications in the past 30 days to apply for a Chase business credit card, or else you’ll almost certainly be denied.

As for your SPG personal, Amex takes about 1-2 statement cycles (so about 1-2 months) to report a new personal card to your credit reports. I got the SPG personal around the same time as you, and Amex still hasn’t reported the new card to my credit reports. I don’t think Amex even made a hard inquiry when I applied for the SPG personal. If the SPG personal still hasn’t reported by next week (is there a reason why you’re waiting?), and Amex didn’t do a hard pull on your application, Chase’s automated system won’t see the card or the inquiry, and won’t count it when processing your CIC application.

No other Chase cards since January. Wow, so Chase might not even see the SPG? I was only saying next week because I wanted to be at 30 days since my SPG. Maybe I'll do it in the next few days then.

If it tracked properly and the purchase qualifies, points should show up in about a week or two on the UR portal that you clicked through under rewards activity for Shop through Chase.

Thanks, I'll have to look on that page again. I didn't see anything before and thought it said something about being on my statement, but that was confusing.

 

[Alexle2007]

I have an odd plastiq strategy question for anyone who might know the answer. I'm a tad bit obsessed with hitting 50 Marriott nights to get Platinum status. I'm counting 41 for the year including upcoming stays + the consolidation with SPG. I'm considering trying to get the remaining 9 nights by doing 9 x $3K on my Marriott Business card. Its possible I could fit a few more award stays in before year end, so I may only have to do 6 or 7 x $3K. Either way, its a lot of spend, and its not worth it to me if I have to incur tons of fees. I'd already be giving up any opportunity cost cash back/points I'd have from charging to another (better) card. So keeping fees low is key.

#1 - Am I nuts? We plan to travel quite a bit in 2019, and I think we would enjoy the free breakfasts, lounge, and suite certs at the Platinum level.

#2 - How to hit the spend? I ordered AU cards on the Marriott Busn account for DH and both kids (18, 20) to use for general non category spend. Also, I will refer each kid to Plastiq (and each of my parents). Should get me $4k in free spend on Plastiq that I could pay with the card. Then kids could use their AU cards on their respective Plastiq accounts for more fee free spend (I know I'll incur the fee on their first $500 pmt). What I'm giving up is paying with DH's plastiq account which has his CIP linked - so 3x UR. But he has no FFD remaining, so we are incurring 2.5% for all CIP payments.

My question is this: Will there be any red flags that go up at Plastiq given that the Marriott cards are the same account - even though they are owned by the authorized user? Does that make sense?

I think it might be faster and cheaper just to find cheap hotel rooms to get the 9 nights.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

And when does bonus for CIP usually post? I met the spend April 27 my statement should be closing within a day or two. I don't see the points pending in the "Earning on Next Statement" section.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Ok - you have a very complex situation here haha. Regarding the cat 5 vs cat 8 cert...the weird problem you have is you aren't using all 7 nights. In theory it should cost you 90k to upgrade from a cat5 to a cat8 (15k x 6 nights + 1 night free). I don't think it matters that you aren't using all 7 nights...you'll probably still have to pay the 90k since it would be through a nights and flights.

I guess the real question here is would I trade 150k Marriott points for 70k SW RR points (310k-160k)...I would not... And actually now that I think about it...with the new transfer rates coming - you aren't really getting much by doing nights and flights (other than additional hassle).

The new Marriott=>Air program will be 60k Marriott = 25k Air Miles/Points. And when you aren't transferring in increments of 60k it will be 3:1. So you could turn 120k Marriott into 50k Southwest without a nights and flights later OR you could turn 150k Marriott into 60k Southwest. Yes you lose 10k vs. what you could do now...but you retain the flexibility now of leaving it in Marriott/SPG where you could use it for Swan, etc. - once you go to Southwest...you can't bring them back to Marriott. So I guess in summary - I wouldn't do the nights and flights if I were you...but I don't think it would be totally wrong if you decided the opposite

Im so slow on the uptake.... but I'm still trying to digest this info. where are you finding this info on the upcoming air transfer ratios? I totally believe you (you are a mathlete!) but I'm still thinkingggggg b/c I'm not a mathlete! And I really just want to get the best return for my limited points here.

From the press release: (I'll take this excerpt from The Points Guy post: https://thepointsguy.com/news/details-unified-marriott-spg-loyalty-program/)

Speaking of which, the 1:1 transfer ratio of SPG points to airline miles is effectively remaining the same — the difference is that now you’ll be using the new loyalty currency, so you’ll have to transfer 3 points of the new currency for one airline mile. But since all SPG points are getting converted to the new currency at a 1:3 ratio, the value of your existing SPG points effectively remains the same.

The new program will also be keeping the SPG transfer bonus that offered an extra 5,000 airline miles when converting 20,000 SPG points. The new bonus will work like this: when transferring to airlines in increments of 60,000 points of the new currency, you’ll receive a 15,000 point bonus — which will net you 25,000 airline miles at the new 3:1 transfer ratio. The program really leaves the transfer bonus and ratios unchanged — it’s just inflated the numbers to match the existing Marriott Rewards.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

I assume the card number stays the same, so I should just be able to make a purchase with my current card rather than waiting on a new card to arrive, right?

You're probably correct. However your expiration date will probably change. If you can, I'd wait to get the new card just to be safe. Once I get my new card I'm going to make a quick $5 payment on my Comcast account and sock drawer it again.

 

[thevalley]

Does canceling a persoal cc hurt or help with regards to applying for a biz card. I got nada both times trying to get a retention offer on my personal SW.
also does the biz cards play into you utilization?? I think lol. I have 4 personal and 1 biz. If I don’t cancel the SW should I lower the cl?

 

[disneymagicgirl]

I hate to be the bearer of (potentially) bad news but I don’t think you are reading about that Cat7/8 loophole correctly. This is in reference to the new award chart.

The “loophole” is in extremely high category properties (ie Ritz and expensive SPG). This is because category 8 (85k per night) won’t go into effect until Feb 2019 so some properties will be just 60k in the interim. Unfortunately none of this will mean anything to your current cat8 property as this is all in reference to the NEW chart.

Current Marriott Cat 8 is 40k. That will likely slot into either new category 6 at 50k (bad news) or new category 5 at 35k (good news).

What about the Sheraton and Westin on maui? Those are what I am considering.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

But I agree with you @SouthFayetteFan I would not define 7/24 as LOL, I think people have forgotten the original intent of LOL as Laugh Out Loud,

Thanks! I never “liked” the term BUT then people started to aspire to be lol/24 to impress people in some sort of “bro-culture” mentality. Go figure - I’d never expect that from the r/churning crowd.....

And then I’d be giving advice to somebody who was “lol/24” in their mind but actually 6,7,8/24 in reality. And we never came up with agreed upon definition (my thought always was if you aren’t at least at 12 then you aren’t there...)

I also think if you’re going to ask for advice people should at least take the time to look at their spreadsheet and get the actual number. Or estimate it (i.e. I’m > 20/24).