I love credit cards so much! v3.0 (see first page for add'l details)

[CaliforniaGirl09]

Are you in the shutdown sub by chance? I’m referencing the private one the mods setup...it’s a BLOODBATH in there daily! Millions and millions of lost miles every single day!!! One guy lost 600k butt in seat miles because he got mixed up in this, sounds like he barely ever used any of his 1.3MM miles!

Nope, i almost tried to join when they first broke it off just because I'm nosey, LOL, but I decided not to since I didn't have a horse in the race. What a bummer though about the bloodbath. I can't believe someone who flies that much to earn those kind of miles doesn't use them!!! Maybe he/she works too much for vacation but wow, what a bummer. I catch up on the DiSchurners thread when you guys update over there. But now I'm sorry I didn't ask to join the other!

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Nope, i almost tried to join when they first broke it off just because I'm nosey, LOL, but I decided not to since I didn't have a horse in the race. What a bummer though about the bloodbath. I can't believe someone who flies that much to earn those kind of miles doesn't use them!!! Maybe he/she works too much for vacation but wow, what a bummer. I catch up on the DiSchurners thread when you guys update over there. But now I'm sorry I didn't ask to join the other!

I hate to think how many hundreds of millions of collective miles have been lost there so far. The really sad ones are the people who were just dabbling...4,5,6 SUBs and now all of their miles are down the drain. I guess none of us could’ve seen it come to this! The pace has really picked up now too, most days I feel like we’re seeing double digit reports in terms of the # of people getting the axe that day.

 

[Calfan]

Sweet! DH just got an email with a 150k point offer to upgrade his Hilton Surpass to an Aspire with $4k spend in 3 months. I have been waiting for this!! And our *donation* for our Cal football seat licenses is due relatively soon so it will be super easy to meet this MSR. I’ve already staked out a Hilton in Amsterdam for a couple of post nights after the ABD Rhine River cruise we just booked for summer 2021, so that free night certificate will be put to good use. And we can use the one for this year plus the $250 resort credit for our second room at the Waldorf Las Vegas for our football game weekend. Super excited about this!

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

I hate to think how many hundreds of millions of collective miles have been lost there so far. The really sad ones are the people who were just dabbling...4,5,6 SUBs and now all of their miles are down the drain. I guess none of us could’ve seen it come to this! The pace has really picked up now too, most days I feel like we’re seeing double digit reports in terms of the # of people getting the axe that day.

That is such a bummer. I also feel badly for the people who have lost flights and are scrambling to keep their plans together.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

Sweet! DH just got an email with a 150k point offer to upgrade his Hilton Surpass to an Aspire with $4k spend in 3 months. I have been waiting for this!! And our *donation* for our Cal football seat licenses is due relatively soon so it will be super easy to meet this MSR. I’ve already staked out a Hilton in Amsterdam for a couple of post nights after the ABD Rhine River cruise we just booked for summer 2021, so that free night certificate will be put to good use. And we can use the one for this year plus the $250 resort credit for our second room at the Waldorf Las Vegas for our football game weekend. Super excited about this!

Nice! I'm really excited to get my new card. I wish the airline credit was easier to use, but it looks like a great card overall. I really like staying at the Hilton Paddington before flying out of Heathrow. The Heathrow Express is super quick and so convenient to the hotel--literally steps away.

 

[Crazed4DisneyinSC]

Sweet! DH just got an email with a 150k point offer to upgrade his Hilton Surpass to an Aspire with $4k spend in 3 months. I have been waiting for this!! And our *donation* for our Cal football seat licenses is due relatively soon so it will be super easy to meet this MSR. I’ve already staked out a Hilton in Amsterdam for a couple of post nights after the ABD Rhine River cruise we just booked for summer 2021, so that free night certificate will be put to good use. And we can use the one for this year plus the $250 resort credit for our second room at the Waldorf Las Vegas for our football game weekend. Super excited about this!

I also just got this offer too to upgrade my free Hilton Amex to the Aspire, and I’m definitely considering it. If you accept an upgrade, im assuming it doesn’t count as a new card? For example, I don’t want anything to mess with my 5/24 for Chase as we’re going to apply for our first CIP soon.

 

[WVMomof3]

What I meant is that I'm opening to churning, I just need to make sure it's a good idea for us, personally, before going ahead with it. (Esp. since we just opened a card this past month). And I'm not adverse to opening a card for myself, if they'd approve it! I'll have to look at those you mentioned, thanks!

There is a benefit to having multiple cards, but some cards are what we call sock drawer cards. Use them to get the bonus points then put them in drawer because they are useless. Some sock drawer cards are closed after a year, some get yearly benefits that warrant keeping. Many of the hotel cards give you a free night on your card Anniversary. If you can use that night for greater than the Annual Fee then it should be a keeper. You can’t be afraid of Annual Fee cards. They have the best benefits. You also need to know your own spending habits. Many cards require you to spend $3-$5k in the first 3 months. Only open them if you plan on spending that much anyway. Don’t over extend yourself in search of points. And always pay off your cards. If you need to float some balances, this game might not be for you. Most of us here put every dime we spend on credit cards. Grocery’s, utilities, taxes, phone bills, etc all on the card. That helps meet MSR faster. As I said earlier you need a more specific goal. Do you want free flights to Australia? There are at least 3 people currently on this thread with free flights to Australia booked. It can be done. You need to first figure out what air line you would fly so you know what points may work for you. Do you want free hotels? Maybe a Hilton, Hyatt or Bonvoy card will work for you. Do you want cash back? Maybe something as simple as a Discover card will work. Being in 2 player mode can both help you diversify and also helps double up on some of the better currencies. And don’t add each other as Authorized Users. There are lots of options. Do a little research and come back and ask more questions before applying to anything. And if you haven’t already, join our Reddit group. There are more tips over there.

 

[Calfan]

I also just got this offer too to upgrade my free Hilton Amex to the Aspire, and I’m definitely considering it. If you accept an upgrade, im assuming it doesn’t count as a new card? For example, I don’t want anything to mess with my 5/24 for Chase as we’re going to apply for our first CIP soon.

I believe it doesn’t count as a new card for purposes of 5/24 with Chase, but hopefully others can provide concrete DPs. I’m not concerned about DH’s 5/24 status at the moment and was actually thinking about having him apply for an Aspire in the next month or so, so the timing of this offer is perfect for us.

 

[reliev]

might have missed it since I've been busy with work but anyone else thinking the Marriot card isn't worth it? it looks like they lost 200+ properties with the 35k certificate and almost 100 with the 50k...

 

[Minnie368]

The whole “earn and burn” or “earn and hoard” has been on my mind a lot. DH and I are just starting cc churning for real this year compared to just dabbling before. I see UR being something we can really accumulate well between the two of us but I do worry about a high balance. I’ve even considered that once we reach a certain limit, should we cash out and just set that $ aside in a separate account to put toward travel when the time comes? Although I know that’s not the best value sometimes as I can see us benefitting from the 1.25 with CSP (wish I had read this thread before getting that one- would’ve probably gone for CSR). We like to cruise DCL but I can see us giving RCCL a try in the next few years especially if we can book through UR and get increased value for our points. I don’t know. We’ll probably just use them as we need them for now and keep collecting but it’s something I will be thinking about on an ongoing basis. DS graduates college in 2022 and we’re starting to think of a big splurge trip for us- thinking Europe?, Hawaii?, DH wants Israel??- so would be awesome to have some rewards stored up for that. Our travel is usually one WDW trip and one DCL cruise per year with some smaller things sprinkled in so these would be new destinations for us. I know no one can tell me what to do but sometimes wouldn’t it be nice to have someone else do the thinking for you?

 

[snugglebug]

If anyone has hotel reservations booked with URs...my 2 for May and October in Orlando went down in points.....so if you have refundable reservations you may want to check

I only have one booked, but it no longer comes up in the system. I'm glad I booked it when I did, that's one vacation that won't be altered lol

Speaking of, what number do I need to call to get the number for MDE? I think Disney can look it up?

 

[Lain]

I hate to think how many hundreds of millions of collective miles have been lost there so far. The really sad ones are the people who were just dabbling...4,5,6 SUBs and now all of their miles are down the drain. I guess none of us could’ve seen it come to this! The pace has really picked up now too, most days I feel like we’re seeing double digit reports in terms of the # of people getting the axe that day.

 

[calypso726]

A Fireside Chat on EARNING, BURNING and HOARDING...
This seems to be a topic of interest to a lot of people lately in light of a lot of doom and gloom of 2019 that brought us clawbacks and shutdowns galore! I'm going to attempt to organize some thoughts around this subject that hopefully will be helpful to a lot of you here and also spark some discussion (I'd love to hear from you all on this topic too!!)

Should I participate in [insert name here] advanced strategy (a.k.a. loophole)?

• First off...I prefer to call them "advanced strategies" instead of loopholes. I don't really like the undertones that come with the word loophole!
• "Advanced Strategies" are a part of the churning game, and we are always looking for new ways to bolster our points earning potential!
• Even back in the days before 5/24, churners would find and implement advanced strategies that allowed them to earn more points than appeared possible on the surface.

It is very important that you understand the risks of implementing any advanced strategy. Card issuers and rewards programs have been known to take the following actions in response to this: closing specific cards that were opened as a result of the strategy; closing ALL cards with that issuer; clawing back points (even if that leaves you with a negative balance); denying bonus points or future card bonuses; shutting off the ability to generate support links; cancelling award travel (flights/hotels/etc) booked using points or methods deemed illegitimate.

This sounds super scary...maybe I should avoid all Advanced Strategies???

• Well...first off...yeah, maybe you should...but that could severely limit your ability to earn enough points to travel for free all the time.
• The banks, rewards programs and card issuers will continue to find ways to restrict the ability to earn multiple SUBs. This is inevitable! Churners are not profitable...so if you aren't willing to push the envelope, you're going to find that your churning results are closer to that of a non-churner vs. a hardcore churner.

So it all comes down to risk vs. reward and knowing your risk tolerance. Each issuer and program is different as well...

• AMERICAN EXPRESS: notably the most hardcore when it comes to taking adverse action against churners retroactively. Shutdowns are more rare with them, but claw-backs are their favorite. And they will put you on a list as a "gamer"...and it's hard to get off that list!
• CHASE: most commonly noted as the issuer that will shut you down...but it's pretty easy to avoid this fate. Don't get cards too fast, don't attempt to get cards if you're well over 5/24, don't apply for multiple cards with them on the same day... Chase is also known for rarely (never?) clawing back points and they frequently have issued warnings in the past to people who have done something that they feel was an abuse of their programs.
• AMERICAN AIRLINES: the new sheriff in town who will shutdown your miles, your hopes, and your dreams... enough said there...

So you've decided to implement one of the numerous advanced strategies...what should I be thinking about now?

• If you're playing in a fairly safe space...(i.e. you did 1 MDD)...don't panic. As the saying goes: "Act like you've been there before!"
• Hoarding points earned in a legitimate fashion brings with it the risks of devaluation but the risks of losing your points to a claw-back are far less and if you have a specific redemption in mind, then by all means hoard away until you get there!
• That said...IF you are in deep, and you are PRINTING points faster than you can use them using some of our favorite advanced strategies...you gotta do something about it!
• Hoarding points earned in this fashion is NOT a good plan! First off, your large points balance could put a clear target on your account when they come for the "abusers"... Secondly, as long as said strategy continues, you can replace the points you have today in a mere number of months! So stop looking for the optimal redemption, stop waiting for the perfect trip to pop up...find a way to convert those points into something of value in your pocket and just do it!
• I'm not saying you should cash out to $0 every month, but don't be the person who gets shutdown with 2 million miles and you never used a single one of them!
• If you're earning more points than you can use, and you don't see a clear path on how to cash them out or convert them to some cash-like value, it might be time to move in a different direction and diversify your points.

So should I "Earn and Burn" like everybody says?
Oh yes, the old r/churning mantra "Earn and Burn"... look, don't let ANYBODY (even me) tell you what you should or should not do with your points!!

I had this crazy stupid goal of having a million URs last year...and so I went for it... and in retrospect it was stupid because I should've been cashing them out...BUT it made me happy to see it once and I don't regret it!

I have a stash of over a million Marriott points, I attempt to keep my Southwest stash above 500k at all times: I'm certainly not earning and burning those currencies.

• Marriott is my safety stash, I totally acknowledge it will be devalued over time and I'm ok with that - I like knowing that in any circumstance (random stop-over trip, long weekend trip, wedding hotel needed, unfortunate death of a loved one, etc.) that I can get a convenient free hotel! That is what it's there for and it serves me well! I never earned those points hoping for some aspirational safari in the jungles of Africa...they are doing exactly what I want them to do!
• Southwest is my ticket to all of my travel dreams! They fly exactly where I want to go, non-stop! Have I lost some value over the years with devaluations...sure! But keeping a significant stash of SW points ensures that I will have MANY years of free flights at my disposal even if all of my SW points earning strategies dry up!
• Some of you might be chasing something aspirational...maybe an awesome trip to Hawaii! Well, you aren't going to earn all of those points overnight... so you're going to have to hoard some until you get there...and that's ok!!

So there are two examples of where my points strategy flies in the face of "earn and burn" and a third strategy where hoarding might be required. But to my earlier comment, if you are hoarding points that you are earning using one of the more dangerous "advanced strategies" you might be playing with fire...

So what does this all mean @SouthFayetteFan?? You know what...I truthfully don't know!

These are just the ramblings of a crazy churner guy who has been at this game for almost 7 years...

What I can tell you is that if you are in this game deep enough to implement an "advanced strategy" then you better be able to think for yourself!! Nobody here can tell you if "you're safe"... Nobody here can tell you if you should pull the trigger on that next card. They can tell you what THEY did...they can tell you WHY they did it... but they can't tell YOU what YOU should do! So earn and burn my friends...or earn and hoard...do whatever you think is best! But understand your risks, understand your goals, and make logical decisions!

I think this could be an awesome discussion point for our thread in the next few days. I'd really love to hear what others think on this topic. How are you earning, burning and hoarding in this strange churning world we operate in here in 2020...

I'll also mention as a side note that the days of openly bragging of your "advanced strategy conquests" on the internet should probably be over...those types of comments are probably best left to DISchurners and other more private settings.

Thanks in advance to anybody willing to share some thoughts on this important topic!!

Great fireside chat topic! I consider myself more of an opportunistic hoarder. Granted we burn through one to two million points and miles each year. As mentioned in a previous post, I am an advocate of having multiple plans to accomplish our travel goals. That requires a diverse stash of points and miles that I’ve been hoarding for a specific purpose.

I agree that each of us has to determine their risk tolerance level when it comes to advanced strategies. I’ve dabbled in some with success and have also been shut down. MSing with Blue Bird got us a travel together ticket for international first class flights redemption but also resulted in 4 Blue Bird shut downs. Despite my best efforts I can’t get approval for another Blue Bird or a Serve account. I can live with that as the shut downs weren’t a surprise.

There was a time DH and I were both LOL/24. The mere idea that can lead to a Chase shutdown if they considered us a breakout risk was enough to get myself in check. Now we are a couple of months away from being under 5/24. I will go over 5/24 again, but will not likely get to LOL/24 again.

I don’t mind hoarding my points. I understand they will be devalued. They still serve a purpose. A perfect example is Marriott. We began hoarding BonBlah points with the intention of going back to Dubai and staying at the Al Maha someday. At the time the Al Maha Desert Resort & Spa was 85k per night. Then we all got Bonvoyed with peak award pricing and my plans now required me to have 100k points per night. I’ve got 5 nights booked over Christmas and am getting the 5th night free benefit. So it is costing me 400,000 BonBlah points instead of the 340,000 I’d planned. I’m ok with that. I’m still staying in a stunning all inclusive property that costs over $1400 per night for FREE.

I’m currently hoarding Hilton points too as I have every intention of going back to the Maldives and not paying any real money to do so.

Current vacation planning requires me to switch gears and go with a Plan B, C, D combo. If I had all my eggs in one basket and didn’t hoard and diversify I’d be left with the choice of canceling my plans or paying actual money.

I may be dabbling in some advanced strategies this year to replenish much of what I’m about to deplete. However, my risk tolerance is fairly low. I don’t judge others with a higher risk tolerance. If anything, I wish I was a bit braver on that front. Like other aspects of churning, we all do what is best for us. So I will continue to earn, hoard, then burn.

 

[snugglebug]

I don't want to get political here, but if you're a New York resident you might want to read a few news articles if Global Entry, Pre-Check, etc are important to you. Just a head's up to those affected.

 

[Albort]

i admit, im a very bad hoarder(2mill+)
i have problems with booking stuff in advanced. im rather a late planner, i plan things literally a week before leaving and most of the time points dont help.

 

[hsmamato2]

might have missed it since I've been busy with work but anyone else thinking the Marriot card isn't worth it? it looks like they lost 200+ properties with the 35k certificate and almost 100 with the 50k...

I currently have a bonvoy biz...just used my FNC last month, AF coming up this summer (I think it'll be $125) and I think it's getting the axe next AF time.....

 

[hsmamato2]

I only have one booked, but it no longer comes up in the system. I'm glad I booked it when I did, that's one vacation that won't be altered lol

Speaking of, what number do I need to call to get the number for MDE? I think Disney can look it up?

mine is higher than when I booked it ( April)

 

[bernina]

If anyone has hotel reservations booked with URs...my 2 for May and October in Orlando went down in points.....so if you have refundable reservations you may want to check

Thank you for the reminder! Just saved around 3k URs on our hotel in Barcelona this summer.

 

[orangecuse]

I’m really stuck on our 2021 plans since 2020 is taken care of point wise. Someone tell me I’m crazy-

A DLR AP doesn’t seem that unreasonable. If we did SD/DL in May 2021, would it be crazy to do DLR in Oct and then...hop to Hawaii to take advantage of being on the west coast/shorter flight/less points? And hit DL on the way back again for good measure lol

 

[mmmears]

Chiming in to say that that the passing of Kirk Douglas reminded me to mention that DH and I watched 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea last week and it's definitely worth checking out if you haven't watched it or haven't seen it in a long time. It's on Disney +.