I hate to say it , and I hope I'm wrong , but ...

[beer dave]

I read this and it did change my perspective some about tipping.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/

Nice piece of propaganda. A beautiful article hoping to re enforce the "ism's" in our country.

 

[Aurora0427]

Then they should 100% stay home/go elsewhere.

No excuse. I don't like the fact they have JACKED the prices into oblivion (dining plan again) and the tips have risen like the tide with it...but I'm not gonna take it out on the tags.

To be fair...that gratuity - if you're on a budget - is significant. It can be $200-$400 a week if you're staying 5+ nights. Nothing to scoff at. It's a month of groceries. Not minor at all. Driven up by the price adjustments done in consort with the Dining plan.

I agree with this 100%. You don't take it out on the food server, who probably makes less money than you do. That's just tacky. If you're so mad or confused or broke, you shouldn't be at Disney.

 

[Aurora0427]

If you go to WDW during peak season, you'll pay full rack rate, and you won't get free dining, either.


As for the tipping comments above...I guess that's why we can have waiters making 80K per year. People think they're obligated to shell out a ridiculous 18-20% on an overpriced meal. Why not 25, 30%? I suppose that's what people in tipped positions will be asking for, in a few years.



I guess a WDW waiter is entitled to make more than a nurse or accountant -- and five times more than a CM.

Your average server at Whispering Canyon Cafe is not making $80,000 a year. Are there some waiters making that kind of money? Yes. But your post seems to imply that most food servers at WDW are making the big bucks. I highly doubt that's the case.

 

[Disneylover99]

Most bloggers and DIS'ers would rather see people get the best deal and not give Disney any unnecessary money, which is why I think this issue keeps coming up in so many discussions... the posts harping on this issue are coming from a good place because we want to see people getting the most for their vacation dollar!

I think your posts on this topic are coming from a good place. But sometimes there are snide comments made on various free dining threads by people who wish free dining would go away forever. And that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But not everyone is harping on this issue for the same reasons as you.

 

[Misha72683]

The trick is, there actually is a right answer, financially: for every guest there is a best strategy that costs you the least money for the amount you want to eat on your vacation. Sometimes, there may be two options to choose between - a slightly lower cash price that's the best price for less food or a slightly higher dining plan cost that's the best price with more food - and then it comes down to your preferences and whether you value that extra "included" food. Or it could be a clear savings with DDP, or a clear situation where cash saves you money. But you have to actually run the numbers to figure that out.

If DDP saves you money, fantastic. Or if DDP costs a few extra dollars over cash for the base meal but actually ends up saving you money once you factor in the included desserts - that's rational too!

But if you're just picking it because you want a fixed price for food on your trip, yet cash is actually the cheaper option when ordering the food you'd like - it's really hard to justify the DDP from an economic standpoint.

My economist husband is always quick to argue "opportunity cost". Your time and effort is valuable too and should always be factored into consideration. For some people the stress of not having to price out every meal or the knowledge thwt if they pay OoP they will big cheaper items is an important factor and they may want to pay a little bit more for peace of mind and that works for the,.

 

[Nancyg56]

The trick is, there actually is a right answer, financially: for every guest there is a best strategy that costs you the least money for the amount you want to eat on your vacation. Sometimes, there may be two options to choose between - a slightly lower cash price that's the best price for less food or a slightly higher dining plan cost that's the best price with more food - and then it comes down to your preferences and whether you value that extra "included" food. Or it could be a clear savings with DDP, or a clear situation where cash saves you money. But you have to actually run the numbers to figure that out.

If DDP saves you money, fantastic. Or if DDP costs a few extra dollars over cash for the base meal but actually ends up saving you money once you factor in the included desserts - that's rational too!

But if you're just picking it because you want a fixed price for food on your trip, yet cash is actually the cheaper option when ordering the food you'd like - it's really hard to justify the DDP from an economic standpoint.

If it's just the freedom to order anything or fixed price aspects that appeal in a situation like that, the gift card trick I suggested can give you much of the same psychological freedom and let you feel free to order what you like without making you handle cash during your trip.

Of course, you're welcome to do whatever you like, and clearly the dining plan is very popular. But I think the marketing promise of "free dining" is really intoxicating - who doesn't like a literal free lunch? - and that can be a distraction from evaluating it objectively when the dining plan is at its core just a way to prepay for your meals. Sometimes that's a great deal - but sometimes it isn't, and all I'm saying is that you need to add up your intended purchases and make sure you're actually getting a good deal before springing for it.

Most bloggers and DIS'ers would rather see people get the best deal and not give Disney any unnecessary money, which is why I think this issue keeps coming up in so many discussions... the posts harping on this issue are coming from a good place because we want to see people getting the most for their vacation dollar!

I totally understand what you are saying, but one thing that I think people also need to factor in is that what works "psychologically" for one may not for another. I will never advocate willy-nilly purchasing any dining plan, but if people have considered what is the best course for their family, than who is anyone else to argue? AS I said earlier, my DH knows me very well and he knows how I roll. I know how my family likes to dine, and I understand that when my DH says go cheap....he means go smart and include every level that he wants in the trip. That old gift card thing will never work for me, and both if us know that. But it is a good plan for you.

I know that you think I am beating a dead horse, but I think that what gets lost when people discuss how they use the DDP for convenience, etc and others chime in to teach them to avoid using the DDP because it is not cost effective, is that most people really do understand their own family dynamics, and are capable of running numbers to determine if they are in that sweet spot in terms of potential cost effectiveness. A few years ago I ran the numbers between the DxDDP and the Free DDP that we chose as our discount. For us, it was too distant a savings to upgrade, but in retrospect I know that I should have. WE had paid for CL at the BC, and I thought hat would take care of breakfast and a few appetizers before we went to dinner. No. My DH was miserable, and really would have like more TS breakfasts, and once we got to dinner he wanted appetizers for us. Anyway, looking back, I should have skipped CL, upgraded to DxDDP and booked some nice breakfasts and lunches for us, and more signature dining. I forgot that we are who we are, and no matter that we certainly could afford to order a lot of extras.....So. All I am saying is that there are a lot more dynamics in play than many times people articulate here.

 

[carmelhp]

There was only ever one purpose for free dining: to get heads in beds during slow times of the year. When Disney owned hotels are staying mostly full year round, free dining is gone.

Correct. There seems to be an idea that "free dining" was a free gift given to guests. Its only purpose is to fill otherwise vacant rooms and make more money. It's not a money loser for Disney or they would have never done it. When it ceases to fulfill its purpose, it will end.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Your average server at Whispering Canyon Cafe is not making $80,000 a year. Are there some waiters making that kind of money? Yes. But your post seems to imply that most food servers at WDW are making the big bucks. I highly doubt that's the case.

That used to be more the case but they have done everything possible to limit it for a long time.

Short shifts...ones that cover prep times and meal times as opposed to two meal...table reductions/limits...four/three day work weeks.

There are likely servers who make the same now as they did 25 years ago...that's not good economics.

And why did evil Mikey and his henchmen Weiss and cockerell start doing this?

Because nobody can get "too far" above the line...and - big AND - the managers were/are making far less than the waiters. That's not a "good morale" scenario.

 

[mcd2745]

There's no excuse for not tipping. There may be a very small percentage of people on the DDP who honestly mistakenly think it's already included. Not tipping as a protest of escalating prices is unacceptable and hurting the wrong people. One issue around the topic of tipping that bothers me though, is the "suggestion" (at the bottom of the receipt) of a 20% tip at the buffets. Perfectly fine at traditional table service restaurants, where I pretty much always tip the 20%. But at a buffet? Those percentages/recommendations at the bottom probably should be 8/10/12%

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There's no excuse for not tipping. There may be a very small percentage of people on the DDP who honestly mistakenly think it's already included. Not tipping as a protest of escalating prices is unacceptable and hurting the wrong people. One issue around the topic of tipping that bothers me though, is the "suggestion" (at the bottom of the receipt) of a 20% tip at the buffets. Perfectly fine at traditional table service restaurants, where I pretty much always tip the 20%. But at a buffet? Those percentages/recommendations at the bottom probably should be 8/10/12%

That's a problem that's hyper emphasized at Disney.

Buffet servers shouldn't get as much as the regular waiters because they only do drinks. Common sense.

But since there isn't a societal norm...the customers at wdw have to SUCK IT UP and pay the 20% across the board.

And I can't weep for the cost - Disney is not a "budget" destination. It just isn't and never was. I have no qualms with budgets at all if that's your path...but you need to budget for the tips. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Nancyg56]

There's no excuse for not tipping. There may be a very small percentage of people on the DDP who honestly mistakenly think it's already included. Not tipping as a protest of escalating prices is unacceptable and hurting the wrong people. One issue around the topic of tipping that bothers me though, is the "suggestion" (at the bottom of the receipt) of a 20% tip at the buffets. Perfectly fine at traditional table service restaurants, where I pretty much always tip the 20%. But at a buffet? Those percentages/recommendations at the bottom probably should be 8/10/12%

I was a server for many years and in my experience a buffet service was much more work than a traditional table service meal.

 

[mcd2745]

There's an article on Tripadvisor (I'm assuming I'm allowed to reference them here. If not, I apologize.) regarding tipping etiquette. Here is the section on buffet restaurants:

For buffet restaurants, tipping servers who clear multiple dishes and provide drink refills is recommended. Some persons may tip buffet servers $1 per diner, others as much as 5 to 10 percent of the total pre-tax bill, depending upon the level of service provided. Buffet servers may not take orders or bring out food, but they do work hard keeping your table clean of the empty plates after multiple trips to the buffet line. In addition to this, they often help to keep the buffet line stocked and clean, and they make coffee, brew tea, etc. Remember that the minimum tip for any server should be $1 per person.

complete article:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g191-s606/United-States:Tipping.And.Etiquette.html

 

[Nancyg56]

That's a problem that's hyper emphasized at Disney.

Buffet servers shouldn't get as much as the regular waiters because they only do drinks. Common sense.

QUOTE]

I do not want to turn this into a tipping debate, but I would ask that the next time you go to any of the buffet restaurants in WDW, please pay attention to the number of times your server returns to the table to clear plate, replenish silver, replenish drinks and clear the table. I was a server for many years and I was exhausted after buffet service. It is a lot more work.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I was a server for many years and in my experience a buffet service was much more work than a traditional table service meal.

Right...I'm not debating that the physical portion of the work is more at buffet style restaurants. I was more taking about the mental/customer interaction portion of the job.

 

[Eoghann]

I despise tipping as a system and have this quaint notion that companies who hire people should be paying them a reasonable wage in the first place, not relying on customers to subsidize just so they can pretend costs are lower than they really are. That said, recognizing how low the hourly wages can be for servers, tipping is pretty much essential.

I will note though that other countries, particularly European ones don't do tipping on a regular basis so visitors may be genuinely unaware of the expectation.

Again the answer as far as I'm concerned, is pay people properly in the first place.

 

[jade1]

And I can't weep for the cost - Disney is not a "budget" destination. It just isn't and never was. I have no qualms with budgets at all if that's your path...but you need to budget for the tips. This isn't rocket science.

100% across the board agreement.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I despise tipping as a system and have this quaint notion that companies who hire people should be paying them a reasonable wage in the first place, not relying on customers to subsidize just so they can pretend costs are lower than they really are. That said, recognizing how low the hourly wages can be for servers, tipping is pretty much essential.

I will note though that other countries, particularly European ones don't do tipping on a regular basis so visitors may be genuinely unaware of the expectation.

Again the answer as far as I'm concerned, is pay people properly in the first place.

...such an idealist...

Why would people be paid enough to not worry about money every second of every sleep deprived day of their lives?

I suppose you want unicorns and leprechauns too?

 

[Eoghann]

...such an idealist...

Why would people be paid enough to not worry about money every second of every sleep deprived day of their lives?

I suppose you want unicorns and leprechauns too?

I saw a peanut stand, heard a rubber band
And seen a needle wink its eye
But I be done seen about everything
When I see... yeah it's never happening.

 

[Davey Jones II]

I despise tipping as a system and have this quaint notion that companies who hire people should be paying them a reasonable wage in the first place, not relying on customers to subsidize just so they can pretend costs are lower than they really are. That said, recognizing how low the hourly wages can be for servers, tipping is pretty much essential.

I will note though that other countries, particularly European ones don't do tipping on a regular basis so visitors may be genuinely unaware of the expectation.

Again the answer as far as I'm concerned, is pay people properly in the first place.

Hear, hear! Tipping is a crutch for companies, so that they can underpay their workers. And the phenomenon of tipping is completely out of control. Why have people accepted the notion that people in tipped positions are now "owed" 18-20%, when the norm used to be 15%? Why do people feed tip jars when they know the person behind the counter is not being underpaid in anticipation of tips?

Speaking of quaint notions, I thought tipping was optional and discretionary? I guess that went out the window. Now you're considered a scum if you tip less than 18%, even if you're making minimum wage and your waiter is raking in $30 per hour...and why is it that a waiter in an expensive restaurant should be tipped 18% based on the inflated price for the meal? They don't work harder than the waiter at Denny's, but they're really entitled to make 3-5 times more?

Generous tippers don't seem to have an understanding of basic arithmetic. At Disney, we know that the prices on the menu are particularly inflated, with a huge mark up. Tipping a reasonable amount, instead of the "obligatory" 18%, makes a lot more sense. If a waiter serves just one $100 meal to a table that dutifully pays 18-20% in tip, they're already doing better than a CM (and, given Disney's prices, $100 is a very conservative estimate). And in a busy place like WDW, it's a given that the tables will usually be full.

 

[IrishNYC]

I despise tipping as a system and have this quaint notion that companies who hire people should be paying them a reasonable wage in the first place, not relying on customers to subsidize just so they can pretend costs are lower than they really are. That said, recognizing how low the hourly wages can be for servers, tipping is pretty much essential.

I will note though that other countries, particularly European ones don't do tipping on a regular basis so visitors may be genuinely unaware of the expectation.

Again the answer as far as I'm concerned, is pay people properly in the first place.

Despise it all you want, but, sorry, that's not how restaurants work in the US. If that's your belief system, then feel free to only patronize the handful of restaurants in the industry that are charging service fees instead, or jacking up their prices 20-30% to pay minimum wage instead of having servers collect tips.