I hate to say it , and I hope I'm wrong , but ...

[Disneylover99]

You don't think they make up for that loss by bumping prices all over?

Not really. Disney is counting on people booking rack rate on the pricier rooms, since I find there are fewer and fewer standard rooms available with this promotion. They're hoping that people don't really use their dining credits to their full advantage since it's "free" and they are hoping that people spend their money in their gift shops since they have perceived savings from not worrying about having to purchase food. There are still couples who take advantage of free dining and book Deluxe resorts without really thinking if a room discount would save them money. Plus now you need to add park hopper or waterpark to your tickets to take advantage of free dining.

However, I do think Disney is making less money off of free dining because people are becoming more savvy with saving their money though, especially with all the recent price hikes.

 

[Eoghann]

Not really. Disney is counting on people booking rack rate on the pricier rooms, since I find there are fewer and fewer standard rooms available with this promotion. They're hoping that people don't really use their dining credits to their full advantage since it's "free" and they are hoping that people spend their money in their gift shops since they have perceived savings from not worrying about having to purchase food. There are still couples who take advantage of free dining and book Deluxe resorts without really thinking if a room discount would save them money. Plus now you need to add park hopper or waterpark to your tickets to take advantage of free dining.

However, I do think Disney is making less money off of free dining because people are becoming more savvy with saving their money though, especially with all the recent price hikes.

Oh I agree they are doing all those things and I'm also certain that the dining plan wouldn't exist if overall Disney didn't come out ahead on it.

But I also think any time the make less than expected they just start bumping other prices to make it up again. That's their pattern. It's like insurance, yes they pay when your car gets damaged, but then they just bump up your fees next year.

 

[Disneylover99]

Oh I agree they are doing all those things and I'm also certain that the dining plan wouldn't exist if overall Disney didn't come out ahead on it.

But I also think any time the make less than expected they just start bumping other prices to make it up again. That's their pattern. It's like insurance, yes they pay when your car gets damaged, but then they just bump up your fees next year.

I'm not sure if overall fees for others get bumped because of free dining, but Disney has made free dining less appealing to people over the years and more cost effective for themselves......cutting out appetizers, cutting out the inclusion of tip, going from two snacks per day to one, and I think in the distant past, Value resorts received Table Service dining and not quick service dining. Plus now as I previously mentioned, having to purchase park hopper or Waterpark tickets.

Your insurance analogy could be used for any type of Disney promotion, not just free dining. People want to feel like they're getting a deal. If too many people only book a discounted room, or if Disney can't sell enough rooms at rack rate, they'll simply increase the price of rack rate and offer more discounted rooms.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If you have been watching what they've been doing with resort pricing and sales the last few years…i think its safe to say that disney does not expect people to book rack rate on pricier rooms. They have out kicked their coverage. they are just not $600 rooms…even to the "luxury" set that Iger thinks is desperate for that 3rd track on midway mania...

 

[Eoghann]

Your insurance analogy could be used for any type of Disney promotion, not just free dining. People want to feel like they're getting a deal. If too many people only book a discounted room, or if Disney can't sell enough rooms at rack rate, they'll simply increase the price of rack rate and offer more discounted rooms.

Absolutely it could be used on anything Disney does. That's kind of my point. It's possible that an individual family might "win" off a free dining deal. But overall the customers always lose.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh yes, and still folks were upset about that. I rememebr people complaining that they thought the servers got too much money,and that they wanted to control the tip. Mission accomplished!

no matter how many (dozens…I'm sure…literally) said that, It was completely a disney move to limit earnings of tipped positions. Don't bother believing anything else - they have been fighting that battle for over 20 years. They don't want $100,000 a year waiters and always come up with "guest reasons" to try and limit wages. you can't be too comfortable working in "paradise".

Talk to former Pleasure Island bartenders from the 95-2000 era…and you'll here some interesting stories about a war going on behind the scenes… the minimum wage legions can't see somewhen eating steak over hamburger - what would that do for "expectations"?

 

[Eoghann]

If you have been watching what they've been doing with resort pricing and sales the last few years…i think its safe to say that disney does not expect people to book rack rate on pricier rooms. They have out kicked their coverage. they are just not $600 rooms…even to the "luxury" set that Iger thinks is desperate for that 3rd track on midway mania...

Ah the Kohls model of pricing. Everything is 25% off all the time and on certain days it's 40% off. Everyone thinks they're getting a deal but it was never sold at full price in the first place!

 

[Disneylover99]

Absolutely it could be used on anything Disney does. That's kind of my point. It's possible that an individual family might "win" off a free dining deal. But overall the customers always lose.

I agree. We have received free dining in the past that was absolutely free. Disney doesn't want or need people like me.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I have to say i few things shock me on this and all "free dining watch" threads:

1. Why is anyone surprised when it looks like its going away? They can crank prices autonomously on everything and nobody says a word. Why discount when you can sell at full price?

2. If they don't do it - what do the tens of thousands of people that book it "preemptively" waiting for money back do? Thats a serious question…what do you do? I bet disney knows to a near statistical certainty…if you plant a lemon - you get a lemon…not an orange or an apple.

3. just take a minute and scroll through some of the "here's why we use free dining" screwy schemes on these threads: all kinds of ways to blow money to save what amounts to a sit down a day, mickey waffle, and a mug with a radio transmitter pulsating in the bottom. Goin' broke "saving money"…it seems.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree. We have received free dining in the past that was absolutely free. Disney doesn't want or need people like me.

disney "needs" to make massive more amounts of money off parks to compensate for developing soft spots in their empire…and they need to do it while lowering employee/operational costs. That means more automation, more outsourcing, cheaper quality food and products, less employees…

its not that they don't "want or need" people like you or I - its that they want you to see it their way. As long as you do - they are happy to grant you a $500 room at wilderness lodge in October. so you can either "get on the train"…or "get off the tracks" before the train runs you over.

Just how it is.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Ah the Kohls model of pricing. Everything is 25% off all the time and on certain days it's 40% off. Everyone thinks they're getting a deal but it was never sold at full price in the first place!

I had one of those "groovy" 45 year old hotels booked for july at 56% off tax included - but i declined to keep it because i'm not interested in being charged measurably more for everything as frequently as i have been in the recent past.

hotels are laughably overpriced…even with all that damn "magic".

 

[Disneylover99]

disney "needs" to make massive more amounts of money off parks to compensate for developing soft spots in their empire…and they need to do it while lowering employee/operational costs. That means more automation, more outsourcing, cheaper quality food and products, less employees…

its not that they don't "want or need" people like you or I - its that they want you to see it their way. As long as you do - they are happy to grant you a $500 room at wilderness lodge in October. so you can either "get on the train"…or "get off the tracks" before the train runs you over.

Just how it is.

I will admit, they do make their money off me from ticket purchases and upgrades to AP's, and since I live over 1200 miles away, I don't visit all that often. But they don't make too much money off of me from food, drink or souvenirs.

 

[Nancyg56]

I have to say i few things shock me on this and all "free dining watch" threads:

1. Why is anyone surprised when it looks like its going away? They can crank prices autonomously on everything and nobody says a word. Why discount when you can sell at full price?

2. If they don't do it - what do the tens of thousands of people that book it "preemptively" waiting for money back do? Thats a serious question…what do you do? I bet disney knows to a near statistical certainty…if you plant a lemon - you get a lemon…not an orange or an apple.

3. just take a minute and scroll through some of the "here's why we use free dining" screwy schemes on these threads: all kinds of ways to blow money to save what amounts to a sit down a day, mickey waffle, and a mug with a radio transmitter pulsating in the bottom. Goin' broke "saving money"…it seems.

I won't answer for anyone else,but I will speak for me.

1. As long as I see a value and am happy with my stay, I don't care if they call is FD, RO Discount, or Full Price, no negotiating. Up til now, I have not had an issue with the costs of our trips vs what we get for the money.

2. I never speculate about a discount. I book for the dates I plan to visit. If I am plan to go for the discount dates, I wait. Booking and then hoping a discount appears , knowing I will have to cancel if I cannot apply said discount, seems horrible to me. If a discount is offered for the timeframe I booked, I call and apply it.

3. I do not go broke saving money. I use the DDP, and I make it work for us. I save money, and I know before I go because I have already run my numbers, knowing how my family likes to dine. ANd we have never had to cancel meals and be stuck due to illness, not in over ten years. So we're good.

4. You did not ask, but if we decide that we are not gaining a value from our Disney vacations, we will go elsewhere. I will always be glad we went when we did and as often as we did.

 

[Nancyg56]

I will admit, they do make their money off me from ticket purchases and upgrades to AP's, and since I live over 1200 miles away, I don't visit all that often. But they don't make too much money off of me from food, drink or souvenirs.

LOL! They make what they make off of me, but it really is only their mark up on food and alcohol. I don't buy many souvenirs any more, and we buy the tickets, but since I look at teh vacation as bottom line cost, I try not to isolate TH ticket cost once we decide to go. Alcohol? They make a bundle! I cannto drink and drive, but in WDW someone takes the wheel! LOL!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I won't answer for anyone else,but I will speak for me.

1. As long as I see a value and am happy with my stay, I don't care if they call is FD, RO Discount, or Full Price, no negotiating. Up til now, I have not had an issue with the costs of our trips vs what we get for the money.

2. I never speculate about a discount. I book for the dates I plan to visit. If I am plan to go for the discount dates, I wait. Booking and then hoping a discount appears , knowing I will have to cancel if I cannot apply said discount, seems horrible to me. If a discount is offered for the timeframe I booked, I call and apply it.

3. I do not go broke saving money. I use the DDP, and I make it work for us. I save money, and I know before I go because I have already run my numbers, knowing how my family likes to dine. ANd we have never had to cancel meals and be stuck due to illness, not in over ten years. So we're good.

4. You did not ask, but if we decide that we are not gaining a value from our Disney vacations, we will go elsewhere. I will always be glad we went when we did and as often as we did.

I've read enough for you to know you're more the "Exception" to the insanity than the rule.

But you said it yourself: insistence on rooms at the contemporary and then "free dining" is economically self defeating…Contemporary was $29 a night on 10/1/1971 and hasn't gotten than much better….especially the wave.

But i get its about priorities.

here's what most (from experience and access to the data moons ago) of the "i booked…hope there is free dining!!!" crowd does: sucks it up and just goes anyway…and finances it at 24.99% APR….
They know most aren't going to cancel all that "magic"…we typically as a people aren't that "strong willed"

 

[Disneylover99]

LOL! They make what they make off of me, but it really is only their mark up on food and alcohol. I don't buy many souvenirs any more, and we buy the tickets, but since I look at teh vacation as bottom line cost, I try not to isolate TH ticket cost once we decide to go. Alcohol? They make a bundle! I cannto drink and drive, but in WDW someone takes the wheel! LOL!

Don't get me wrong, if I'm walking around WS, I will happily buy a $15 margarita. I'm taking the bus.

And speaking of alcohol, I wonder if the free diners (in general) spend more on alcohol at dinner since they're only paying for their drinks. I think they do. And it's something else that Disney hopes for when free dining is offered.

 

[Nancyg56]

I've read enough for you to know you're more the "Exception" to the insanity than the rule.

But you said it yourself: insistence on rooms at the contemporary and then "free dining" is economically self defeating…Contemporary was $29 a night on 10/1/1971 and hasn't gotten than much better….especially the wave.

But i get its about priorities.

here's what most (from experience and access to the data moons ago) of the "i booked…hope there is free dining!!!" crowd does: sucks it up and just goes anyway…and finances it at 24.99% APR….
They know most aren't going to cancel all that "magic"…we typically as a people aren't that "strong willed"

LOL! I would probably be right in there with the insane, but my DH woudl have a seizure! LOL! He is our money manager, and while I tell him what our trips cost, and when they need to be paid off, he wants to know how the money is allocated. To be honest, he is nearing the end of his Disney or Die rope, and is only on board because we have two little girls on our street who are like grands to us, and they LOVE Disney. If we don't take them, they will not be going.

For years my DD and I tracked our DDP costs vs the amount that our meals would have cost. DD still does, it is the accountant in her. Anyway, I do my homework before we book so I know how to apply discounts. I have offered a few times to assist my nephews IL's as they plan their big family trip, but since my offer was not accepted, I drew back. The kids are YOUNG and I know I could manage to save them a bundle on their dining, but......

Now don't get me started on teh relates at the CR!!! My DH and his buddies went to Disney in the early 70's and stayed at the CR. He said he remembers paying about $100, but cannot rememebr if it was the total bill or his share. I hear this every tip we book! LOL!

When we took our family in 1987 I though the room might be too crowded so I priced an addition room for maybe 4 or 5 nights. It was $1100!! WE were spending what was for us was a fortune, so we opted to be crowded. Looking back, this was the week between Chrristmas and New Years, so premium pricing???

 

[Nancyg56]

Don't get me wrong, if I'm walking around WS, I will happily buy a $15 margarita. I'm taking the bus.

And speaking of alcohol, I wonder if the free diners (in general) spend more on alcohol at dinner since they're only paying for their drinks. I think they do. And it's something else that Disney hopes for when free dining is offered.

I think that we might. I never gave that much thought. I can say that WDW is the only place my DH can drink. He has a CDL so his acceptable blood alcohol is 1/2 what otherss are. He refuses to take a chance with that, so if he has a glass of wine with dinner anywhere else, that is it. DD is a control freak, and will never be comfortable if she is nto the designated driver, so if not at Disney, maybe 1/2 of one mojito. Me? No one likes my driving, so I'm good anytime! I share cocktails with my DSIL.

 

[JACKNAG]

A lot of us who have used free dining for many years, remember when it used to include an appetizer, entrée, dessert and drink for a ts meal. It also used to include the TIP.(I think I am remembering correctly). This was the best and the prices to go to Disney were a lot lower. Those were the good ole days!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes it did the tip and four appetizers for a family of 4. When that went away I called Disney and they said "but we lowered the Dinning plan sir by $2.00 this year.

 

[Nancyg56]

Yes it did the tip and four appetizers for a family of 4. When that went away I called Disney and they said "but we lowered the Dinning plan sir by $2.00 this year.

Oh my gosh! Do you remember all of the discussions that took place when that DDP was in place? I was shocked at the conversations, but not suprised when Disney responded by removing the Appetizer and tip.