I Googled Disney+ EV charging, the result was...disappointing

[sam_gordon]

As a non-EV user, I have a question... do charging ports (in general, not just at Disney) have the capability of charging MORE per minute once a vehicle is fully charged?

Wouldn't a way around this be for Disney (any location) to say charge $5/minute while the vehicle is plugged in AFTER it reaches 100%? Even maybe give a 30 minute grace period?

 

[Mle8308]

As a non-EV user, I have a question... do charging ports (in general, not just at Disney) have the capability of charging MORE per minute once a vehicle is fully charged?

Wouldn't a way around this be for Disney (any location) to say charge $5/minute while the vehicle is plugged in AFTER it reaches 100%? Even maybe give a 30 minute grace period?

Good question! I have wondered the same thing. Like I said, one was plugged into a station for 3 days and I have no idea if it was actually a functioning charging station or if it automatically stopped once charged, kind of like your phone.

 

[Mikey15]

As a non-EV user, I have a question... do charging ports (in general, not just at Disney) have the capability of charging MORE per minute once a vehicle is fully charged?

Wouldn't a way around this be for Disney (any location) to say charge $5/minute while the vehicle is plugged in AFTER it reaches 100%? Even maybe give a 30 minute grace period?

These are referred to as “idle fees” or “idling fees,” and yes, they exist. More commonly seen at L3 (DC) chargers, but they have been done at L2s as well.

 

[zackiedawg]

As far as I know, Disney doesn't charge idle - once you sign up to the app, it notifies you when your car is charged - there needs to be at least a reasonable grace time at a place like Disney for a person to get back to their car - but after an hour or so, if someone is just leaving it there while they go to the parks for the day, I think it would be appropriate to have a charge assessed. In general, yes, the chargers stop when they reach a full charge. Many of the fast chargers will run at optimal speed to get to 80% or so, then the final top-off is much slower which protects the battery - this often encourages people to not necessarily wait around to get to 100% - since you can get to 80% in 15-20 minutes with decent fast chargers. As 800v charge systems become the standard, and maybe more charging stations up their systems to charge at those rates, the charging times may come down - along with other possible future technologies such as if solid state batteries ever become a reality.

Remember even as EV sales climb (currently around 8% of new car sales), EVs still represent between .8 - 1% of registered vehicles in the US - if EV adoption ever climbed to 5-10% of registrations, you'll likely see a lot more charging stations start to appear (outside of California).

 

[kdonnel]

You should change your plans concerning an EV at Disney and the surrounding Orlando area. The lack of pubic charging availability is just so limited as to make it unworkable.

The thousands of EV drivers that live in the Orlando area would disagree.

I have driven my personal EV to WDW several times in the past three years. When traveling, if I get access to a L2 charger like at the parks or my hotel great, if not it is not required.

I always just plan on using DCFC when on a road trip away from home.

Here are the DCFC(not showing Tesla only or Tesla NACS sites or there would be more listed) in the WDW area. 40 charging stations so probably around 100 charging connections assuming most stations have two connections and many have four or more.

 

[seashoreCM]

In the interest of having one charging station serve more than one or two cars per day, how about expect that someone using it do about a 1/3 charge and then move?. How much of a "tankful" does a typical Disney EV family use each day? If there exists a profile for typical Disney EV family ... After the hours for an expected 1/3 charge has elapsed, the higher idle payment rate goes into effect automatically. (The charger will still stop delivering power if 100% charge is reached.)

 

[sam_gordon]

These are referred to as “idle fees” or “idling fees,” and yes, they exist. More commonly seen at L3 (DC) chargers, but they have been done at L2s as well.

Sounds like that would be the simple solution. I would think 30 minutes should be plenty of grace time. Then go outrageous... $5/minute. Want to make a bet people will get their cars moved?

 

[kdonnel]

In the interest of having one charging station serve more than one or two cars per day, how about expect that someone using it do about a 1/3 charge and then move?. How much of a "tankful" does a typical Disney EV family use each day? If there exists a profile for typical Disney EV family ... After the hours for an expected 1/3 charge has elapsed, the higher idle payment rate goes into effect automatically. (The charger will still stop delivering power if 100% charge is reached.)

Level 2 charging on a road trip is a nicety, not a necessity.

The issues being discussed in the thread are hot button issues in EV forums.

1. Idle fees, the lack of them or the fact they exist.
2. People charging to 100% on DCFC in particular.
3. The free DCFC plans provided by some EV manufacturers.

So many EV drivers don't know much about how their EV works and will often waste tremendous amounts of their time and the time of others that might be waiting charging to 100% at a DCFC station. Unless your route requires you to charge beyond 80%, charge to 80% and move on. When DCFC, it generally takes as long to go from 10-80% as it does to go from 80% - 100%.

As for idle fees many in the EV community are in favor until they are implemented in a stupid fashion.

Hotels and theme parks are places where idle fees don't work. The nicety of being able to plug into a L2 at a hotel/theme park is that you can enjoy your day or sleep the night away and come back to a charged car. If you implement idle fees than you have to set an alarm for 3am to wake up and move your car at the hotel or 3pm and exit the theme park. Is someone else really going to use the L2 charger in either of those cases? Probably not at the hotel, a little more likely someone might show up later at the theme park. In either of those cases I am not going to bother plugging in and disrupt my sleep or theme park day. I will just DCFC as needed. On a typical WDW trip I stop by a DCFC and charge to 80% on arrival. That will let me drive around all week. Then the night before driving home I stop by a DCFC again and charge to 80% so I am ready to start the trip in the morning.

For theme parks and hotels I feel like the answer is both more and less L2 charging. Hotels should have 20 or more L2 stations. Theme parks should either have hundreds or none.

 

[Mikey15]

Level 2 charging on a road trip is a nicety, not a necessity.

The issues being discussed in the thread are hot button issues in EV forums.

1. Idle fees, the lack of them or the fact they exist.
2. People charging to 100% on DCFC in particular.
3. The free DCFC plans provided by some EV manufacturers.

So many EV drivers don't know much about how their EV works and will often waste tremendous amounts of their time and the time of others that might be waiting charging to 100% at a DCFC station. Unless your route requires you to charge beyond 80%, charge to 80% and move on. When DCFC, it generally takes as long to go from 10-80% as it does to go from 80% - 100%.

As for idle fees many in the EV community are in favor until they are implemented in a stupid fashion.

Hotels and theme parks are places where idle fees don't work. The nicety of being able to plug into a L2 at a hotel/theme park is that you can enjoy your day or sleep the night away and come back to a charged car. If you implement idle fees than you have to set an alarm for 3am to wake up and move your car at the hotel or 3pm and exit the theme park. Is someone else really going to use the L2 charger in either of those cases? Probably not at the hotel, a little more likely someone might show up later at the theme park. In either of those cases I am not going to bother plugging in and disrupt my sleep or theme park day. I will just DCFC as needed. On a typical WDW trip I stop by a DCFC and charge to 80% on arrival. That will let me drive around all week. Then the night before driving home I stop by a DCFC again and charge to 80% so I am ready to start the trip in the morning.

For theme parks and hotels I feel like the answer is both more and less L2 charging. Hotels should have 20 or more L2 stations. Theme parks should either have hundreds or none.

Very good points!

Worth noting L2 chargers are an order of magnitude cheaper to install and maintain than L3… 10:1 easily. If L2 was everywhere that people spend multiple hours, like movie theatres, hotels, theme parks, Disney Springs, then there’d be a lot less need for L3 outside of interstate travel.

 

[sam_gordon]

Hotels and theme parks are places where idle fees don't work. The nicety of being able to plug into a L2 at a hotel/theme park is that you can enjoy your day or sleep the night away and come back to a charged car. If you implement idle fees than you have to set an alarm for 3am to wake up and move your car at the hotel or 3pm and exit the theme park. Is someone else really going to use the L2 charger in either of those cases? Probably not at the hotel, a little more likely someone might show up later at the theme park.

Again, I will admit I'm not an EV driver. But how would you know if someone wanted to use the charger, but you left it plugged in for hours just so you can enjoy your time?

 

[kdonnel]

Again, I will admit I'm not an EV driver. But how would you know if someone wanted to use the charger, but you left it plugged in for hours just so you can enjoy your time?

You wouldn’t.

You can assume that overnight no one is going to get up every 15 minutes to see if a charger has come available overnight. If you get lucky and get one of the 2 or so hotel chargers, it should be yours for the entire night.

During the day you should move when your car reaches your target percentage, and is the reason I would not use theme park L2.

But that is just my opinion on how public L2 charging etiquette should work. Others think differently.

Public L2 charging is an amenity companies use to attract customers. It’s really not all that useful for the average EV driver on a road trip. It makes sense at work locations and at places accessible by locals who do not have L1 or L2 at home. It can make sense at places where someone will be spending hours, like a theme park, but only if there are enough L2 to meet demand, the subject of this thread.

I don’t even look at L2 charging options when planning road trips. Using L2 means planning 5-10 hour stops to gain a useful amount of electricity vs 20-30 minute DCFC stops.

I just DCFC when needed on a road trip. Though I might select a hotel over another if one has L2 and the other does not with the hope I get lucky and get one of the chargers overnight. If I don't get one of the chargers I just DCFC in the morning.

And that is where establishing an agreed upon charging etiquette is important.

For DCFC
1. Only charge past 80% if your route planning requires it.
2. Don’t use the spot as a parking spot
3. If you must charge past 80%, promptly move when done.
4. If you have a free charging plan that came with your car, don’t use loopholes to extend the charging session if people are waiting. For example with one manufacturer you get free 20 minute sessions. Don’t immediately start a second 20 minute session if people are waiting. Move your car and get back in line.

For L2
1. Move when no longer charging, unless charging overnight in which case it is expected that your car will block the charger overnight.
2. Don't use the spot as a parking spot

Some charging networks are experimenting with charging a fee to reserve a spot. I can see how that would be useful but I would only use it if the price was cheap and I doubt a cheap price will be profitable. A few of the networks just prevent the charger from activating for anyone else except the reservation holder but that does not stop someone from parking in the spot. Others have a device that physically blocks the spot and that device can only be opened by the reservation holder. In either case the charger becomes available again after the charge session finishes or after a grace period if the reservation holder never shows.

It's not quite the wild wild west as far as public EV charging is concerned but it is definitely still in the early stage.

 

[kanerf]

The push for fast charging is part of the problem. Those do require lots of additional infrastructure to support. Level 2 is easy and that is all I can use anyway in my Kia Niro PHEV. With level 2 you will get only 10 miles or so per hour of charge, but that is fine for most people.

 

[sam_gordon]

You wouldn’t.

You can assume that overnight no one is going to get up every 15 minutes to see if a charger has come available overnight. If you get lucky and get one of the 2 or so hotel chargers, it should be yours for the entire night.

During the day you should move when your car reaches your target percentage, and is the reason I would not use theme park L2.

But that is just my opinion on how public L2 charging etiquette should work. Others think differently.

Public L2 charging is an amenity companies use to attract customers. It’s really not all that useful for the average EV driver on a road trip. It makes sense at work locations and at places accessible by locals who do not have L1 or L2 at home. It can make sense at places where someone will be spending hours, like a theme park, but only if there are enough L2 to meet demand, the subject of this thread.

I don’t even look at L2 charging options when planning road trips. Using L2 means planning 5-10 hour stops to gain a useful amount of electricity vs 20-30 minute DCFC stops.

I just DCFC when needed on a road trip. Though I might select a hotel over another if one has L2 and the other does not with the hope I get lucky and get one of the chargers overnight. If I don't get one of the chargers I just DCFC in the morning.

And that is where establishing an agreed upon charging etiquette is important.

For DCFC
1. Only charge past 80% if your route planning requires it.
2. Don’t use the spot as a parking spot
3. If you must charge past 80%, promptly move when done.
4. If you have a free charging plan that came with your car, don’t use loopholes to extend the charging session if people are waiting. For example with one manufacturer you get free 20 minute sessions. Don’t immediately start a second 20 minute session if people are waiting. Move your car and get back in line.

For L2
1. Move when no longer charging, unless charging overnight in which case it is expected that your car will block the charger overnight.
2. Don't use the spot as a parking spot

Some charging networks are experimenting with charging a fee to reserve a spot. I can see how that would be useful but I would only use it if the price was cheap and I doubt a cheap price will be profitable. A few of the networks just prevent the charger from activating for anyone else except the reservation holder but that does not stop someone from parking in the spot. Others have a device that physically blocks the spot and that device can only be opened by the reservation holder. In either case the charger becomes available again after the charge session finishes or after a grace period if the reservation holder never shows.

It's not quite the wild wild west as far as public EV charging is concerned but it is definitely still in the early stage.

But isn't leaving a car plugged in overnight at a hotel "using the spot as a parking spot" which you say should be a "no no"?

 

[Lumpy1106]

Here's what I found on the Chargepoint site;
https://driver.chargepoint.com/mapCenter/28.363829460998595/-81.56478485058581/13?view=list
I drive a Volt so if I can't find a charger its NBD, but, two things I've experienced;
1) The chargers are frequent targets of vandalism (in general, not in Disney parks)
2) The chargers in Disney parks charge higher rates - 50% higher in DL than the usual Chargepoint chargers (admittedly, you can find some that are worse). You won't know that if you don't page through the display on the charger though (or check the app).
Welcome to why forcing everyone into an electric car is just a bad idea. Gas stations are abundant and heavily regulated. You can see the price as you drive by because it's the law. When you buy 5 gallons of gas, you get exactly 5 gallons, never less, also the law. You never once question if you can get from point A to point B as there will always be a gas station along the way.
It was not always this way, but it has been in our lifetimes. Maybe Electric cars will get there but it is FAR off RN.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Again, I will admit I'm not an EV driver. But how would you know if someone wanted to use the charger, but you left it plugged in for hours just so you can enjoy your time?

Most Chargepoint chargers charge a reasonable rate for the first 3 hours (sometimes longer), then the price quadruples to encourage you to move your car. BUT...all you have to do is go on the app and stop charging - you don't physically have to move the car (but comeon - that's a jerk move - don't do that).
I disagree that you should get the charger the full night at a hotel, especially if it is free. It's inconvenient, but it's not that big of a deal to move the car. It's right there, on property, and you don't have to wait in the car. Shouldn't that be convenience enough?

 

[kdonnel]

But isn't leaving a car plugged in overnight at a hotel "using the spot as a parking spot" which you say should be a "no no"?

L2 charging at hotels is an exception as I listed.

I feel it is unreasonable to expect someone to wake up at 3am to unplug and move their car because I feel it is unlikely someone else would take advantage of the open charger.

However, I feel it is reasonable to expect people to move promptly during the day. Say from 8am - 11pm if your car reaches your desired charge level.

Just my opinion though.

That is the etiquette I have personally followed.

Edited to add:
I was saying to not use it as a parking spot because it is all too common for EV drivers to just pull up and park in charging spots, never plugging their car in to charge. EV drivers like to complain about ICE cars blocking spots but often it is a fellow EV driver blocking a spot.

 

[Lumpy1106]

L2 charging at hotels is an exception as I listed.

I feel it is unreasonable to expect someone to wake up at 3am to unplug and move their car because I feel it is unlikely someone else would take advantage of the open charger.

However, I feel it is reasonable to expect people to move promptly during the day. Say from 8am - 11pm if your car reaches your desired charge level.

Just my opinion though.

That is the etiquette I have personally followed.

Edited to add:
I was saying to not use it as a parking spot because it is all too common for EV drivers to just pull up and park in charging spots, never plugging their car in to charge. EV drivers like to complain about ICE cars blocking spots but often it is a fellow EV driver blocking a spot.

Definitely so. I have even experienced drivers that have a certain, unique charging port (rhymes with "smeshmla") , parking to use that charger, purposely blocking the charger that everyone else uses.

 

[Anthony1971]

We own a hybrid but have rented EVs in Florida for day trips like to the airport. Most rental companies will not make you charge the car free of charge. The AC in the Hyundai and Kia was not good at best in the Florida heat. Livable but not cool. Even around me in NJ if you have a Tesla or compatible there are tons of charges. Charge America and charge point… well best of luck… but many can charge at home. NYC foggetabootit there are no charges. We stick with hybrid for these reasons. Just can not beat the 40 mpg average I get with a mid size SUV less when it’s cold more when it’s warm. I think EV are a great concept but have a way to go to be mainstream.

 

[Flash_Sloth]

A few times that I've stayed at Riviera, I've used the L2 chargers there. But with only 2 chargers there, and as EV adoption increases, it can be challenging to find one available. And as much as I hate to say it, doing an EV road trip without access to tesla's supercharging network is a lot more limiting. L2 charging on property at WDW hasn't scaled with the number of EVs.