I am beginning to lose hope...

[Cormoran]

I continue to be amused that there are people who have convinced themselves that there are rides that always had 5-10 minute waits before FP+ that always have waits of 45-60 minutes now.

I just looked at the current posted wait times at WDW. It is 1:45 PM EST on a Sunday that TP lists as crowd level 6 and easywdw lists as crowd level 5. So, we are at early afternoon, when wait times tend to be reaching their peaks, on an average day.

The posted wait times for some of the attractions mentioned in the last few posts on this thread:

Pirates 25
IASW 20
Living With The Land 10
Figment 5

Are these wait times longer than they used to be at the same time of the day on an average day? Maybe. Are they so long that they would have a major impact on someone's ability to enjoy their day at WDW? I guess that's a matter of someone's personal preference.

First of all, I didn't say anything about the waits on secondary attractions being 45-60 minutes. I distinctly said that my family has a max tolerance of 20 minutes for secondary attractions. Secondly, I was speaking about my personal experiences. The current wait times are irrelevant to me. I am only interested in the posted wait times when we are standing in front of an attraction.

 

[wisblue]

First of all, I didn't say anything about the waits on secondary attractions being 45-60 minutes. I distinctly said that my family has a max tolerance of 20 minutes for secondary attractions. Secondly, I was speaking about my personal experiences. The current wait times are irrelevant to me. I am only interested in the posted wait times when we are standing in front of an attraction.

The 45-60 minutes came from another poster who was referring to waits for Pirates. I wouldn't wait 45-60 minutes for Pirates either, but I have never found it hard to ride Pirates with a wait time of under 20 minutes, even at the busiest times of the year.

You did refer to putting FP+ on rides that "never had a wait". In my experience there is no such thing as a ride at WDW that never had a wait. The two specific rides you mentioned (IASW and LWTL) often had waits, and it wasn't unusual for them to be more than 30 minutes on busy days. And it isn't unusual for them to have short waits these days. As always, time of day and overall crowd size are much bigger factors in determining the wait time for a ride than FP+.

Just out of curiosity, what attractions do you consider "headliners" at MK, and what do you consider "secondary"?

 

[Cormoran]

Headliners @ the 3 mountains, pan ( based on waits) and now 7DMT. Prior to FP plus, I never waited more than 5-10 minutes for IASW, POTC,HM prior to those attractions becoming FP plus. Last April all of these attractions had waits longer than 20 minutes. This was my experience.

 

[wisblue]

Headliners @ the 3 mountains, pan ( based on waits) and now 7DMT. Prior to FP plus, I never waited more than 5-10 minutes for IASW, POTC,HM prior to those attractions becoming FP plus. Last April all of these attractions had waits longer than 20 minutes. This was my experience.

I'm not questioning your experience, and if you are comparing wait times at the same time of day on days at the same time of year with similar crowd levels, then that is going to be significant for you. April can be a pretty busy time, so wait times of more than 20 minutes at those attractions in the middle of the afternoon would not be surprising to me.

 

[cakebaker]

Oddly enough, the first time that I went to DHS was in 1991. I think back then the studios only had two rides and a bunch of shows and I loved it. But by now, I've seen all the shows. Most of them just don't have repeat value for me. In addition, they have shuttered so much at DHS. I actually do want to see the Beauty in the Beast show again before it's gone but we always end up skipping it because we have nothing to do until the next show rolls around. And my kids have no desire to see an Indiana Jones stunt show. If it wasn't for TSMM, my kids would easily skip that park. I admit that I'm more likely to repeat shows at Epcot or AK, but even those are every other or every few trips, not each year.

Our first encounter with HS was after it first opened- That was a long time ago and my memory is fuzzy except that all I recall was it was the Great Movie Ride and the backlot tour and not much else to do. I thought it was awful and my opinion hasn't improved a great deal over the years. Were it not for TOT and Fantasmic, I could happily skip it entirely. Just my personal preferences tho- it's not my park. Funny thing is, the only reason we made a crazy, last minute trip last summer was to get to HS- for the Frozen Summer. This next trip, my daughter started the ball rolling with our 3rd trip of the year ( very out of the ordinary for us) because she wants to go to SWW. So while I don't like HS, it's responsible for getting me to WDW 3 times in a year.

The other parks are different for us. We'll never skip seeing the parades or fireworks at MK

 

[cakebaker]

Wait times for some attractions are undeniably longer on average than they used to be. But, the differences are not as great or as constant as some people would have us believe.

The passing of time seems to have enhanced the old days so that some people now believe rides were a walk on year round at WDW and FP's were plentiful and never ran out. It sure never worked that way for us in the summer.

If only it were so....

 

[cakebaker]

Because the WDW and DLR attractions are some of the best themed rides in the world. We love the secondary attractions almost as much as the headliners. I can go to shows, see fireworks and watch parades in my own city. What I can't do is ride well-themed attractions.

And this is the mindset I was talking about in a previous post- nothing wrong with it, but I can see where if all that interests you are rides- you have a problem at WDW. But then, I think there was always a problem. Outside of the MK, none of the other parks have the number of rides it would take, for us at least, to stay entertained all day. And honestly, I don't want them to. We don't go to WDW just because they have great rides. There are plenty of places that offer great rides. While I really don't like Universal, I will admit that they have some truly great rides there- on par in many cases with WDW. But that's all they've got as far as I can see and we want more.

But lucky you that you can see parades, fireworks and shows at home any time you want. That luxury doesn't exist here and even if it did- they wouldn't be Disney shows and that's the difference for us. We're all excited and already have tickets bought for the Disney on Ice Frozen show that wont' be here until the fall. Would I go see another ice skating show besides Disney? Not a chance, but I'm thrilled to go to this one.

 

[Brian Noble]

You're certainly on the right track, and by your own admission, this is going to take some time. Which is why I was puzzled when you challenged that assertion earlier.

Because I thought you were using the "attendance and revenue will drop" definition of failure---and that's measurable quarter by quarter. I didn't realize you were using the "capture other guest days" definition until later.

 

[MrInfinity]

The passing of time seems to have enhanced the old days so that some people now believe rides were a walk on year round at WDW and FP's were plentiful and never ran out. It sure never worked that way for us in the summer.

If only it were so....

Isn't there data somewhere to see if lines were 5-10 min or less for IASW, POTC, and HM, pre-2014? I don't doubt that Cormoran got in quickly and often... if she says she did then she did in my book. But that is definitely not the typical experience. If someone could quote a wait-time chart from 2 or 3 years ago for these rides that would be cool.

Still, common sense applies. If the line is short, you ride. If it is longer than you want to wait, you pass. Following this, we've been consistently able to ride those 3 rides in about 20 min I'd say, but I don't think we ever averaged 5-10 min. Rope drop excepted, of course, or right after a thunderstorm when the park is cleared out. But not on a regular day. Of the 3, HM had the longest lines, but they all varied. Why on earth would they have built the massive queue for it that they have, all those graveyard experiences, etc, if the line was 5-10 min? That means you're passing the entire outside experience and going basically straight to the doors.

And so far in 2015, it seems about the same. Think of it this way. Whether you ride by FP+ or standby or FP-, the rides still handle the same amount of people as before. So aside from the crowd levels having gone up a bit year over year for the last 5 years, nothing is really different in terms of the people going or the rides there. Yes there are more people going now, cuz attendance has gone up. But also there is a new coaster to add capacity in the coaster-grade rides, and a new mermaid ride to add capacity in the people-mover type rides, a new ETWB that adds capacity in the "interactive experiences" type rides, and a new restaurant, both QS and TS.

So while attendance is up, ride capacity has been added. As a net result, altho how we queue up is different, we still get just as much done as before.

 

[Cormoran]

The passing of time seems to have enhanced the old days so that some people now believe rides were a walk on year round at WDW and FP's were plentiful and never ran out. It sure never worked that way for us in the summer.

If only it were so....

As I have said repeatedly, I am am speaking from my own experience on previous trips. I never visited during the summer, so I would never presume to know what you experienced. By the token, it would be appreciated if you would extend the same courtesy to me and my experiences. My memories are not enhanced.

 

[Luckybee]

Really and imho there are now 5 subsets of visitors, those who prefer the new system and like or love it , those who care not, those who don't like it, and those like us who will be going to Disney less because of it because we really really really don't like it(=hate). Only time will tell if D loses more or not as a result and that time will definitely be more than a year or 2.
For us we tried fp+ for the first time in Sept/Oct and for a myriad of reasons we didn't like it. As a result of that and info from posters on these boards we went back and tried Universal for the first time in over 10 years. We loved Universal. As a result of that our 12 day trip for this coming May has changed dramatically. We're now only doing 2 Disney days(and those days are only because we promised newbie friends we'd "show them around") and then off property including 4 nights at Loews Portofino. This is the first time in years that we didn't do at least 4+ park days(and usually 6 or 7) and for us that is directly related to fp+
Im simply not willing to spend three times as much time in the parks to do what we could do before in one third of the time. For us and our touring style that is what it would take. I don't want to have to "adjust" to fp+ because I simply don't like it and so we will choose other destinations in the future. Which is why we wont do Disney as often as we have in the past.
Perhaps Disney will be filled with those from the former group. Perhaps there will be tons of new visitors who love fp+so much that they will come more often and that will more than make up for those who will do what we are doing.
I've come to the conclusion that liking/disliking fp+ is a personal thing and it doesn't really matter what camp you fall into because D is going to do what suits D and what suits D will depend on their bottom line, none of which can be judged for a number of years until they see how much they lose, if anything from repeat guests who spend either less time in their parks or don't come back at all. Honestly I think Im probably in the minority in that I don't expect many who would choose not to go because of fp+ (which we would do because we really found it didn't work for us). I do think though that there will be significant numbers that will spend less time in the parks/resorts because of it. Perhaps we should put this thread into a canister and check back in 5-7 years when the answer may be more apparent

 

[Luckybee]

The passing of time seems to have enhanced the old days so that some people now believe rides were a walk on year round at WDW and FP's were plentiful and never ran out. It sure never worked that way for us in the summer.

If only it were so....

It was so for those of us who went off season but it wasn't the "old days" . It was all of our trips (with the exception of 2 high season) prior to fp+ which if my failing memory serves me was only a couple of years ago

 

[cakebaker]

Isn't there data somewhere to see if lines were 5-10 min or less for IASW, POTC, and HM, pre-2014? I don't doubt that Cormoran got in quickly and often... if she says she did then she did in my book. But that is definitely not the typical experience. If someone could quote a wait-time chart from 2 or 3 years ago for these rides that would be cool.

I'm sure there must be, but I haven't found it. I know it wasn't our experience in the summers when we went.

Touring plans has done a even later study that I hadn't seen and after just a quick glance, it looks like it's pretty consistent with the last one.

http://blog.touringplans.com/2014/06/23/fastpass-lowering-waits-disney-world-popular-rides/

They did have some interesting reasoning as to why there may be a bigger increase on the lesser rides like Haunted Mansion- they're higher capacity rides and Disney can allot more FP+'s for those rides. So while the wait may be a bit longer in standby, your chances of getting additional fp's for these rides is much better. Who cares what the standby wait is if you can secure a sdfp? And btw, just as an aside- if Disney would put a stop to the practice of people collecting bags full of bands and using them for sdfp's, there might be just a bit more availability. Abusing a system will never make it work better. It didn't for legacy and it won't for FP+.

 

[cakebaker]

It was so for those of us who went off season but it wasn't the "old days" . It was all of our trips (with the exception of 2 high season) prior to fp+ which if my failing memory serves me was only a couple of years ago

I'll give you in the off season, back when there was such a thing- legacy fp's surely lasted longer. We never got to go during off seasons, so we never got to enjoy that. Problem is, obviously a lot more people go when there's a lot more people there so the ones who got to experience plentiful legacy fp's are a definite minority.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Really and imho there are now 5 subsets of visitors, those who prefer the new system and like or love it , those who care not, those who don't like it, and those like us who will be going to Disney less because of it because we really really really don't like it(=hate). Only time will tell if D loses more or not as a result and that time will definitely be more than a year or 2.
For us we tried fp+ for the first time in Sept/Oct and for a myriad of reasons we didn't like it. As a result of that and info from posters on these boards we went back and tried Universal for the first time in over 10 years. We loved Universal. As a result of that our 12 day trip for this coming May has changed dramatically. We're now only doing 2 Disney days(and those days are only because we promised newbie friends we'd "show them around") and then off property including 4 nights at Loews Portofino. This is the first time in years that we didn't do at least 4+ park days(and usually 6 or 7) and for us that is directly related to fp+
Im simply not willing to spend three times as much time in the parks to do what we could do before in one third of the time. For us and our touring style that is what it would take. I don't want to have to "adjust" to fp+ because I simply don't like it and so we will choose other destinations in the future. Which is why we wont do Disney as often as we have in the past.
Perhaps Disney will be filled with those from the former group. Perhaps there will be tons of new visitors who love fp+so much that they will come more often and that will more than make up for those who will do what we are doing.
I've come to the conclusion that liking/disliking fp+ is a personal thing and it doesn't really matter what camp you fall into because D is going to do what suits D and what suits D will depend on their bottom line, none of which can be judged for a number of years until they see how much they lose, if anything from repeat guests who spend either less time in their parks or don't come back at all. Honestly I think Im probably in the minority in that I don't expect many who would choose not to go because of fp+ (which we would do because we really found it didn't work for us). I do think though that there will be significant numbers that will spend less time in the parks/resorts because of it. Perhaps we should put this thread into a canister and check back in 5-7 years when the answer may be more apparent

While one factor like FP+ is probably not the only factor that most people will use when planning their vacation, it is a consideration. That being said, by the financial performance of the parks in the last year, if the failure/success of FP+ is determined strictly on Disneys bottom line, it has been a resounding success.

 

[cakebaker]

As I have said repeatedly, I am am speaking from my own experience on previous trips. I never visited during the summer, so I would never presume to know what you experienced. By the token, it would be appreciated if you would extend the same courtesy to me and my experiences. My memories are not enhanced.

I wasn't talking about you. As for you and your experiences, I don't doubt your word. I just see that the statistics don't say the same thing so I attribute your issue to bad luck, bad timing--dunno. But I wouldn't expect that to be a consistent problem. Perhaps that you're going in a very busy time- perhaps busier than summer- might explain it.

 

[Luckybee]

I'll give you in the off season, back when there was such a thing- legacy fp's surely lasted longer. We never got to go during off seasons, so we never got to enjoy that. Problem is, obviously a lot more people go when there's a lot more people there so the ones who got to experience plentiful legacy fp's are a definite minority.

You know what... it isn't the lack of legacy fp's that most impacted our lack of enjoyment since we we never big fp- users. Rather it is the change in lines on secondary rides. I responded to your post mainly in reference to the "walk ons" and that is exactly what we missed on our last trip since we found 0 of those and for us that was a completely new experience for secondary rides(and before anyone takes that too literally I mean rides with less than a 5 minute or so wait).

And "back when there was such a thing" was just prior to the implementation of fp+ so Im far from convinced that the "off season" has gone as much as I am about the impact of fp+ on the off season.

 

[Luckybee]

While one factor like FP+ is probably not the only factor that most people will use when planning their vacation, it is a consideration. That being said, by the financial performance of the parks in the last year, if the failure/success of FP+ is determined strictly on Disneys bottom line, it has been a resounding success.

Uhhh....Given that both Fl and CA have experienced proportional increases I don't agree at all that you are correct. Matter of fact I see it as a failure in that since FL has FP+ and Ca doesn't. If FP+ were a success than they would be up by so much more in FL, and they are not. But as I also said imho it is waaaaayyyyy too early to judge.

 

[Cormoran]

Because I thought you were using the "attendance and revenue will drop" definition of failure---and that's measurable quarter by quarter. I didn't realize you were using the "capture other guest days" definition until later.

First of all, Disney does not publicize their attendance. Second if Disney continues raising ticket, food, and merchandise prices, how can increased revenue be attributed to MDE and FP+? Even in their shareholder reports they cite the price increases as the increased revenue source. According to the last quarter report, attendance at DLR and WDW had grown at the same rate.

 

[Cormoran]

So while attendance is up, ride capacity has been added. As a net result, altho how we queue up is different, we still get just as much done as before.

So the only place that I've noticed ride capacity increasing is with 7DMT. Am I missing something? DHS has closed rides, Epcot has closed Maelstrom. Are you pointing to only 7DMT and saying there's increased capacity? If so this is a feeble increase at MK, but a marked ride capacity decrease at Epcot and DHS.