I am beginning to lose hope...

[Cormoran]

So FP+ is an improvement because it aids the occasional hopper who enters a park at dusk and want to ride headliners at that park with little or no wait. And Disney needed to completely revamp its system to do that? I have no problem admitting that this unique style of touring is aided by FP+, but that seems to be catering to a pretty small subset of guests.
...and I say that I'm the most civil way and tone possible.

Thanks to FP+, I am spending less time and money at WDW. We're not park hoppers and we really don't want to spend all of park time in longer SB lines once we've used our 3 FP+'s. So we'll spend the mornings and early afternoons visiting other places in Orlando and then go into the parks around 4 pm. Prior to FP+, we spent all of our time in the parks because the waits for second tier attractions were minimal. Now a lot of these attractions have become FP+ and we're not willing to wait in long SB lines. With our family, Disney is losing money. IMO they would've had a better chance of locking guests in if they had built more attractions.

 

[flicx]

IMO they would've had a better chance of locking guests in if they had built more attractions.

That is what made Disney World what it is today!

 

[Planogirl]

Thanks to FP+, I am spending less time and money at WDW. We're not park hoppers and we really don't want to spend all of park time in longer SB lines once we've used our 3 FP+'s. So we'll spend the mornings and early afternoons visiting other places in Orlando and then go into the parks around 4 pm. Prior to FP+, we spent all of our time in the parks because the waits for second tier attractions were minimal. Now a lot of these attractions have become FP+ and we're not willing to wait in long SB lines. With our family, Disney is losing money. IMO they would've had a better chance of locking guests in if they had built more attractions.

This is true for us too. We've moved further and further away from WDW and now it's even easier. We plan to do our three fastpasses and enjoy a few night time things such as parade and fireworks but otherwise we'll be somewhere else. Since we do that we aren't that interested in onsite resorts and we will also eat far fewer meals there. Disney might want us to spend less times in the parks to control the lines but we'll also spend less time at WDW in general.

 

[gdrj]

Thanks to FP+, I am spending less time and money at WDW. We're not park hoppers and we really don't want to spend all of park time in longer SB lines once we've used our 3 FP+'s. So we'll spend the mornings and early afternoons visiting other places in Orlando and then go into the parks around 4 pm. Prior to FP+, we spent all of our time in the parks because the waits for second tier attractions were minimal. Now a lot of these attractions have become FP+ and we're not willing to wait in long SB lines. With our family, Disney is losing money. IMO they would've had a better chance of locking guests in if they had built more attractions.

This is true for us too. We've moved further and further away from WDW and now it's even easier. We plan to do our three fastpasses and enjoy a few night time things such as parade and fireworks but otherwise we'll be somewhere else. Since we do that we aren't that interested in onsite resorts and we will also eat far fewer meals there. Disney might want us to spend less times in the parks to control the lines but we'll also spend less time at WDW in general.

Goes to show that everyone vacations differently. We try to always stay on property. FP+ allows us to not rush to the park or stand in lines. This allows us more time to spend at Resort and onsite restaurants and lounges, and shops and we tend to end up at EPCOT for food and/drinks later in the day or EMH's. With attendance up and revenue I think Disney may know what is working. While you may not stay as long. maybe since someone else is coming since they can get FP's. They may be getting more unique visitors per day who I would think may spend more than 1 party staying all day...but who really knows.

 

[Cormoran]

Goes to show that everyone vacations differently. We try to always stay on property. FP+ allows us to not rush to the park or stand in lines. This allows us more time to spend at Resort and onsite restaurants and lounges, and shops and we tend to end up at EPCOT for food and/drinks later in the day or EMH's. With attendance up and revenue I think Disney may know what is working. While you may not stay as long. maybe since someone else is coming since they can get FP's. They may be getting more unique visitors per day who I would think may spend more than 1 party staying all day...but who really knows.

Well, we used to be like you, but now we don't find the same value in spending all of our time at WDW so it's part of our vacation, but no longer all of it.
You're right , none of us know what the real impact of FP+ is on Disney's bottom line. I honestly don't think we will know for another 4 years. Maybe all of us old fogies who are unhappy with FP+ will have moved on and been replaced by a whole new generation of uber users.

 

[goofyernmost]

Does it matter what the source of the angst is, if there is angst? Does it matter if the clueless people have no one to blame but themselves for their disappointment if there is disappointment? My point was simply, while people may be tired of the anti-FP+ sentiment in chat boards, when some father in line at a kiosk curses to the heavens how much he hates the new system, I can promise you that there are not 9 other people in line telling him to shut up and that the system is great. Quite the opposite. When he throws his tantrum, they applaud and say: "You tell' em, pops!"

The idea that the only ones that were disappointed or upset were just people that were clueless, is incorrect. Yes, there were a lot of them, but, I will guarantee you that I was not one of them. I know what I could get if I didn't show up before sunrise and what I couldn't get. I stood in those standby lines and listened to angry people that could not get a fastpass because they were out of them and it really doesn't matter what time of day that was. They did not provide FP's for 100% of the ride capacity no matter what time you showed up. And those that were still available, more then likely were for times that didn't work for them so they had to stand in that line if they wanted to see the attraction. People use the figure of around 70% of ride capacity is delegated to FP. I doubt that is true. If it were the lines in Fastpass would reach out of the park. The ride only moves a certain number of people per hour. If everyone had one or had the ability to have one, the FP line would be as long as any line there ever was.

I really think that your thought that everyone would agree with "Pops" is correct if he are talking about the FP system itself, be it legacy or new. It just plain has created more problems then it ever solved. It forced the planning issue on everyone where before you could just leisurely go from ride to ride, wait in a constantly moving line for a reasonable amount of time, go on it and then move to the next one. I spent a lot of time in the parks previous to FP and I will assure you that I rode as many rides a day then than I do now, if not more. All the FP saved time was completely cancelled out by the increased wait times on the attractions where no FP was available, either by design or chance. The entire idea that this is a way to see more is patently ridiculous. All it caused is a park that has turned into a sporting event with everyone on a mission to see as much as they can see, but, hopefully more then anyone else. It caused anger in the standby lines that never existed before FP and I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT CLUELESS PEOPLE! It created a have's and have not's social setting that is harmful to the overall enjoyment level of a place that is supposed to be fun. It just plain sucks.

In reference to the Toy Story FP saga and there were many others, is this simple. The legacy system didn't let me get a fastpass for TSM without jumping through hoops and making me want to redefine just what a vacation is supposed to be. I now sat home, pushed a button on my mouse and 9 days ahead of time I have a FP for TSM. Please tell me how that can be awful. I also, the last two times that I used the new system, have gotten a FP for Peter Pan. Something that I haven't been able to get for years.

The bottom line is that the new Fastpass is here pretty much as we are going to see it in the foreseeable future. They will make a few minor changes but, there will never be a return to the legacy FP. Perhaps instead of constantly complaining about it, doing a little effort in seeing how to make it work for ourselves might be a better use of energy and a more productive use of it. FP of old is dead and buried, the only real positive thing that we could ever see is for Fastpass to be trashed completely, but that's not going to happen either. No one will ever be able to keep sending runners for FP's again and collecting 8 to 10 a day. Everyone must learn to find a way to deal with the limited availability as it is now or they might as well stay home, because, going to WDW is just going to be an exercise in frustration for them.

 

[JimmyV]

I'm confident when they created the new system, they were attempting to satisfy the majority of their guests.

And I am equally confident that they created a system designed to maximize profit. There is no way that a majority of guests would ever have responded favorably to a survey asking if they would prefer a FP system that limits them to 3, had tiering that precluded them from getting passes for both Soarin' and Test Track, limited them to passes at only one park per day and required staying up until midnight to book attractions 60 days in advance. These are not features that "a majority of their guests" were demanding.

 

[JimmyV]

The idea that the only ones that were disappointed or upset were just people that were clueless, is incorrect.

Agree. Though I'm not sure why you quoted my post to make that point. It was jeffbear who asserted that the people who are upset had no clue.

 

[flicx]

And I am equally confident that they created a system designed to maximize profit. There is no way that a majority of guests would ever have responded favorably to a survey asking if they would prefer a FP system that limits them to 3, had tiering that precluded them from getting passes for both Soarin' and Test Track, limited them to passes at only one park per day and required staying up until midnight to book attractions 60 days in advance. These are not features that "a majority of their guests" were demanding.

I wrote almost the exact same response and then said ah forget it. I'm quite sure many others are thinking the same thing.

 

[Brian Noble]

Likely somewhere in between. ... Too soon to see results. Maybe 3 or 4 years.

Great. I propose a wager. If on February 6th, 2019 the FP+ system has largely been rolled back to legacy FP, I will buy you dinner in the 1-TS credit WDW restaurant of your choice. If instead it is largely unchanged, you can buy me a Dole Whip. Note that I have included my sense of the odds when proposing this wager.

Thanks to FP+, I am spending less time and money at WDW. ... With our family, Disney is losing money.

Evidently, there are plenty of families willing to take your place. That is, unless you think they are flat out lying about their quarterly results.

 

[flicx]

Great. I propose a wager. If on February 6th, 2019 the FP+ system has largely been rolled back to legacy FP, I will buy you dinner in the 1-TS credit WDW restaurant of your choice. If instead it is largely unchanged, you can buy me a Dole Whip. Note that I have included my sense of the odds when proposing this wager.


Evidently, there are plenty of families willing to take your place. That is, unless you think they are flat out lying about their quarterly results.

On point one there is far far to much invested for Disney to give this system up, heads would roll with the higher ups after this massive expenditure. On point two Disney is now currently standing on the foundation that was primarily built before 2000, it is still a great park. The current management can pillage it for a long time before things go down hill especially in an upturning economy.

 

[Brian Noble]

Four years from now, those heads will all be in different jobs. If there is a material impact on the Parks' profitability at that point, things will change. See: the Pressler/Harris->Ouimet transition at Disneyland for an example.

Edited to add: but, hey: If you'd like to propose an alternative objective measure on which we can place a wager re: success or failure of MyMagic+, I'm wiling to listen.

 

[Cormoran]

Evidently, there are plenty of families willing to take your place. That is, unless you think they are flat out lying about their quarterly results.

I'm sure they're not lying about their quarterly results. But they have raised the prices of tickets, food, and merchandise.

 

[flicx]

Four years from now, those heads will all be in different jobs. If there is a material impact on the Parks' profitability at that point, things will change. See: the Pressler/Harris->Ouimet transition at Disneyland for an example.

Maybe yes maybe no. CEOs have ways of spinning things to keep their million dollar salaries.

 

[WillAustin]

But I'm betting my last dollar WDW knows and I'm confident when they created the new system, they were attempting to satisfy the majority of their guests.

No, they were attempting to lock in as many people in advance for as many park days as possible, period. Guest satisfaction is secondary to that.

 

[Brian Noble]

So, no idea for a metric on which to wager? I thought not.

 

[dawgsgirl]

All this discussion is very interesting. As for me, I must have some kind of authority problem. This new system just makes me feel like I am being manipulated. Sorta like those puppets at China in Epcot. Just not a magical feeling!

 

[JimmyV]

So, no idea for a metric on which to wager?

There can't be. If FP+ changes between now and 2019, how would either of us know if those changes were the result of "natural evolution of the system" or "guest dissatisfaction"? Disney would never admit to the latter. For example, suppose they change the booking time from midnight to noon. Who wins the bet? Suppose they add a guaranteed 4th FP. Who wins the bet. Suppose they add phone app availability for extra FPs. Who wins the bet? No one is suggesting that there will ever be a roll back to FP-. But there will be changes if people don't embrace FP+1.0. Remember that Disney's goal is to capture more days of a tourist's 8 days in Central Florida. As outsiders we will never know if they meet that goal. That is the metric of success.

 

[Brian Noble]

There can't be.

How convenient for you. You can't be wrong.

 

[JimmyV]

I'm sure they're not lying about their quarterly results. But they have raised the prices of tickets, food, and merchandise.

And don't forget that DLR is seeing parallel success without MDE.