How would you reform the US Education system.

[golfgal]

I see two threads of problems in education in the US today:

1. There were some really exciting, USEFUL things happening in Education prior to NCLB. After NCLB, kids are stuffed to learn the test.

Where is the proof, the evidence that teaching to tests, that rigourous classroom education starting at 4 or 5 is the way to go? What reasonable longitudinal study shows us that forcing every child to take an academic path in primary thru high school does them any good in their post-HS lives?

We are no long highly successful at producing technically skilled individuals in our schools. We seem to have become better at producing academics, but not people who do things, who produce things. We need those people: right now, what do we produce, what is building our wealth, our national economy? We better find something quick, guys.

2. The US, as a whole, does not value free and public education of all children anymore. Let's ban private schools. If you want your child to be taught religiously, send them to a class after school. If your public schools are so bad that you just can't bear the thought of sending your kids to one, then you need to roll up your shirt sleeves and work with other parents and make the schools better - the schools are supposed to be the sum total of the community's requirements for education of their children. At this point, in a lot of places, people really don't care what happens to the public schools. Their kids are home schooled, or enrolled in a private school. So the kids who go to public schools get a crummy education, and the rest get a decent education, and with that kind of set up, it doesn't matter what you say or do or who you blame, the public schools will NEVER get any better. And an entire segment of the population is denied the opportunity for advancement, for a decent education.

So force every single child to attend public schools. Force every single person with a child, grandchild, or relation attending those public schools to care about what is happening in those schools, to support those schools, and to build up those schools.

3. Schools are NOT businesses. They never have been, they never will be.Why in the world do some people think a business person would have any idea how to run a school? There is a business side to schools, this is true, but there is also a business side to churches, so why aren't pulpits given over to accountants? There's a business side to fire fighting as well, so perhaps, the next fire chief should be a CPA instead of someone with experience and certifications in fighting fires; it makes as much sense as hiring a business person to run a school system!



Personally, I'd like to see some brave soul who doesn't mind getting pilloried from all sides get us to try using Finland's model. They've got some of the world's best schools, with good long-term results and they used to have some of the absolute worst schools. Their nation decided to make education a priority, and as a community, they did it. Go check it out. It worked for them, it could work for us.

Right there says it all-in areas where schools are bad it isn't a priority. I know in our area they just conducted a survey to see what the response would be for a bond referendum in the fall because of cuts to funding from the state-87% of the parents said they would support one. I know of other districts around our state where they have been trying to get bonds passed for YEARS and can't get one-big surprise that they are closing schools, laying off teachers, etc.

 

[disfan07]

Get rid of the dang NCLB. That is one of the first things that needs to be done. That is by far one of the most stupid and useless parts of the US education system.

The teachers hate it. The administrators hate it. If I have a penny for everytime my teachers in high school bashed NCLB I would be rich.



2)Stop giving out awards to everyone! It's ridiculous. I think it eliminates a lot of students drive for learning because they will get an award no matter what

3)Less extracaricular activities. This needs to happen on both a school a parent role. Colleges need to stop putting so much emphasis on having a full extracaricular resume and parents need to stop pushing their kids into everything and overscheduling them so much. I'm not saying get rid of them completely but seriously...1 sport or activity per season is enough

4) Do NOT base teacher pay on their students test scores. That is ridiculous. If a teacher continully has very low scoring classes, than yes, it is something that might want to be looked into (taking into consideration the make of of the class) but it should not be the sole basis for raises.

5)Get rid of teacher tenure. I HATE tenure. My worst teachers were the teanured teachers. It's a very very bad idea. They need to get rid of it in public schools and they need to get rid of it at college/university level as well.

6) The test requirements are crazy. Standardized testing has gotten completely out of control.

7)Pay teachers at least a COL salary. In some areas they do, but in many they dont and it keeps a lot of potential teachers away from those areas.

8) PARENTS!!! parents are a problem with the education that children are getting today. Some parents see other things as being more important than education. Some parents have no respect for the teachers and are basically passig that on to their child. Some parents have compeltely spoiled their children adn handed everything to them so the child takes that same attitude to school. If parents have no respect for education, what makes you think kids will? I believe that children are naturally curoius and want to learn but the parents do play a huge part in that continuing desire to learn. If a child WANTS to learn adn has a sense that education is important that will work harder and do better.

9)There needs to be a national curriculum. A school in Fairfax County, VA should not be teachin a different curriculum than a school in Prince William County, VA. It should be the same lessons. I had to take US History and a Political Science class at my Community College. I went to school in Northern Virginia. Pretty much All of my classmates went to high school here in California. I was completely stunned with how little they knew about the Government and US history in general. Maybe it was because I grew up so close to DC...I dont know. But it was sad when college students could not name the 13 colonies or explain what each branch of government does. I personally believe that would eliminate a lot of the discprepencies throughout the nation.

10)They need to figure out how to give appropriate attention to ALL students. Special Ed students get accomodations. There are GT programs and GT schools for gifted students. What about the average student? What about every student in the middle? They are the ones who fall through the cracks.

Can you tell I've thought about this before...lol

 

[dejr_8]

3. Schools are NOT businesses. They never have been, they never will be.Why in the world do some people think a business person would have any idea how to run a school? There is a business side to schools, this is true, but there is also a business side to churches, so why aren't pulpits given over to accountants?

Really have to disagree with this. Schools are a BUSINESS. They are in the business of educating our children. And right now they are not doing it in a cost efficient manner. We have limited dollars to spend on education (that is a reality) and we need to use those dollars wisely.

We can't keep throwing dollars at the education system.

A CPA to run a school - no. But how about someone with a teaching background who has an MBA?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I think the issue is your school then, not the entire system, because every other school I have either attended or our kids have attended was perfectly capable of getting these classes in AND having PE.

I don't know what your PE classes do but ours offer a variety of sports and fitness options. Yes, they play volleyball and basketball but they also learn to use the weight room, treadmills, elliptical, they have units on golf, bowling, running, nutrition. Our twins' PE class this trimester is called "lifelong sports" and they concentrate on sports that you can do over your lifetime-golf, bowling, running, weight training, etc.

When our kids were in elementary school, one day/week they had a walking unit where they walked around town, they all got pedometers to use and did a unit on how many steps/day they took, figured out how many calories they were burning, etc. but given the option most of the kids still wanted to play dodge ball or kick ball.

The issue is that your refeuse to see alternatives and are happy with the way things are.

I see better ways to excellence for students and you want to keep status quo, medicore and watered down.

If I tell you that my 13yodd is going to benefit MORE from taking a computer class where she is actually excelling instead of PE, you cannot seem to see that.

If you talk to someone who wants to do sports in high school and would LOVE to focus on that with others who are the same, how great would that be?

What is wrong with trying to make things better? I don't get how people don't see that.

 

[castleview]

I see two threads of problems in education in the US today:

1. There were some really exciting, USEFUL things happening in Education prior to NCLB. After NCLB, kids are stuffed to learn the test.

Where is the proof, the evidence that teaching to tests, that rigourous classroom education starting at 4 or 5 is the way to go? What reasonable longitudinal study shows us that forcing every child to take an academic path in primary thru high school does them any good in their post-HS lives?

We are no long highly successful at producing technically skilled individuals in our schools. We seem to have become better at producing academics, but not people who do things, who produce things. We need those people: right now, what do we produce, what is building our wealth, our national economy? We better find something quick, guys.

2. The US, as a whole, does not value free and public education of all children anymore. Let's ban private schools. If you want your child to be taught religiously, send them to a class after school. If your public schools are so bad that you just can't bear the thought of sending your kids to one, then you need to roll up your shirt sleeves and work with other parents and make the schools better - the schools are supposed to be the sum total of the community's requirements for education of their children. At this point, in a lot of places, people really don't care what happens to the public schools. Their kids are home schooled, or enrolled in a private school. So the kids who go to public schools get a crummy education, and the rest get a decent education, and with that kind of set up, it doesn't matter what you say or do or who you blame, the public schools will NEVER get any better. And an entire segment of the population is denied the opportunity for advancement, for a decent education.

So force every single child to attend public schools. Force every single person with a child, grandchild, or relation attending those public schools to care about what is happening in those schools, to support those schools, and to build up those schools.

3. Schools are NOT businesses. They never have been, they never will be.Why in the world do some people think a business person would have any idea how to run a school? There is a business side to schools, this is true, but there is also a business side to churches, so why aren't pulpits given over to accountants? There's a business side to fire fighting as well, so perhaps, the next fire chief should be a CPA instead of someone with experience and certifications in fighting fires; it makes as much sense as hiring a business person to run a school system!



Personally, I'd like to see some brave soul who doesn't mind getting pilloried from all sides get us to try using Finland's model. They've got some of the world's best schools, with good long-term results and they used to have some of the absolute worst schools. Their nation decided to make education a priority, and as a community, they did it. Go check it out. It worked for them, it could work for us.

I'm a public school advocate, but banning private schools is silly. Plus, I do not feel denied in my own public education because of the existence of private schools. Plenty of public schools are still getting the job done due to parental involvement - generalizing that they are falling apart makes no sense.

 

[pirateofthecarolinas]

The education gap will widen until all parents are involved in their child's education or all children are sent to preschool shortly after birth.

I tutor 4th and 5th graders at a low income elementary school. The line for free/reduced breakfast goes down the hallway as far as you can see. I was pleasantly surprised yesterday when 4 of my students ran up to tell me that they got in the Academically Gifted classes based on last years EOG scores. They hugged me and asked me if I was going to tutor them again this year. These students can learn and succeed if someone will take an interest in them. It is more work than a classroom teacher can ever take on by themselves.
I would encourage anyone to visit a school and volunteer. Just listen to them read for 20 minutes. These children are starving for attention and need someone in their life to tell them that they can do it! You will receive more than you will ever give.

 

[dejr_8]

The education gap will widen until all parents are involved in their child's education or all children are sent to preschool shortly after birth.

I wonder if the "failure" of the school system is really just a symptom of having so many two income families?

 

[pirateofthecarolinas]

I wonder if the "failure" of the school system is really just a symptom of having so many two income families?

I really don't think so. I've seen many great students come from 2 income households. They are exposed to many extra things before starting school.

I find the underlying issue to be reading. Many children do not read outside of school. The children that excel read many more books per year than lower performing students. The more you read, the smarter you are in all subject areas.

2 of my DSs are LD but I read to them and I make them read. They also listen to books on their ipod and mp3 players. Parents are going to have to wake up and force their kids to read.

 

[golfgal]

The issue is that your refeuse to see alternatives and are happy with the way things are.

I see better ways to excellence for students and you want to keep status quo, medicore and watered down.

If I tell you that my 13yodd is going to benefit MORE from taking a computer class where she is actually excelling instead of PE, you cannot seem to see that.

If you talk to someone who wants to do sports in high school and would LOVE to focus on that with others who are the same, how great would that be?

What is wrong with trying to make things better? I don't get how people don't see that.

No, what I see is a mom that only wants things that are easy for her child, not a mom that wants her child challenged and yes, PE is a challenge for her from what it sounds.

 

[Disneycrazymom]

Not that I want to get in the middle of this PE discussion but I think it might be MO requirements that are causing the problem. My DS along with many others took PE and health during summer school in order to get all the electives and credits they wanted/needed to graduate high school. It is in fact very common for kids in fine arts to take these either on line or in summer. I personally think it is silly to have to do that in order to play in band or sing in choir all 4 years of high school. Just offer the PE class to those who want it as an elective and let the other kids choose something else. I can say it was a total pita to get this done. DS had to register at our local pubic school and we had to be sure to get in when it opened up as so many kids need to take PE in the summer to get the credits he needed and then have it all transferred to our private school. he got it done but really it is crazy!

 

[kimmar067]

Really have to disagree with this. Schools are a BUSINESS. They are in the business of educating our children. And right now they are not doing it in a cost efficient manner. We have limited dollars to spend on education (that is a reality) and we need to use those dollars wisely.

We can't keep throwing dollars at the education system.

A CPA to run a school - no. But how about someone with a teaching background who has an MBA?

....perhaps then, we should call for cut-backs on the salaries of 'those in charge', the administrators....

 

[golfgal]

Not that I want to get in the middle of this PE discussion but I think it might be MO requirements that are causing the problem. My DS along with many others took PE and health during summer school in order to get all the electives and credits they wanted/needed to graduate high school. It is in fact very common for kids in fine arts to take these either on line or in summer. I personally think it is silly to have to do that in order to play in band or sing in choir all 4 years of high school. Just offer the PE class to those who want it as an elective and let the other kids choose something else. I can say it was a total pita to get this done. DS had to register at our local pubic school and we had to be sure to get in when it opened up as so many kids need to take PE in the summer to get the credits he needed and then have it all transferred to our private school. he got it done but really it is crazy!

What are the grad requirements in MO that makes this so hard??

 

[chloelovesdisney]

I think that children would benefit from being in classrooms with those that learn at similar speeds and abilities and that their should be more consequences for disruptive behavior.

I also don't believe that two income families have a negative effect on kids and learning, it has much more to do with the education level of the parents themselves and the importance they place on education.

 

[pirateofthecarolinas]

I think that children would benefit from being in classrooms with those that learn at similar speeds and abilities and that their should be more consequences for disruptive behavior.

I also don't believe that two income families have a negative effect on kids and learning, it has much more to do with the education level of the parents themselves and the importance they place on education.

Curriculum compacting has been around for over 20 years. I would be interested to know if schools that have implemented it have been successful.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

No, what I see is a mom that only wants things that are easy for her child, not a mom that wants her child challenged and yes, PE is a challenge for her from what it sounds.

I see you as someone who cannot understand other people's issues and you have a lack of vision for how to reform schools for the better. You have huge tunnel vision and instead of opening yourself up to change you prefer to pummel people's ideas.

This thread is about reform and yet all you do is berate my ideas instead of actually talking about school reformation.

 

[kimmar067]

I see you as someone who cannot understand other people's issues and you have a lack of vision for how to reform schools for the better. You have huge tunnel vision and instead of opening yourself up to change you prefer to pummel people's ideas.

This thread is about reform and yet all you do is berate my ideas instead of actually talking about school reformation.

Holy discussion, Batman!

 

[Disneycrazymom]

What are the grad requirements in MO that makes this so hard??

In our case (and for all fine arts kids) it is that they are only required 1 fine art credit to graduate. For the requirement, 1 is completely fine, but for the kids who are more serious about band or choir they have to find room to take 4 years instead of the 1 that is required. One way the schools tell the kids to do that is to get the 2 years of PE and health some other way, like summer school or health on line. That opens up time in the schedule to add the extra fine arts classes they want to participate in over the 4 years of school.

 

[dejr_8]

....perhaps then, we should call for cut-backs on the salaries of 'those in charge', the administrators....

I agree.

 

[kimmar067]

I agree.

... is this the part where I'm s'pose to DISAGREE with you??? [ ]

 

[dejr_8]

... is this the part where I'm s'pose to DISAGREE with you??? [ ]

No, you are just being a troublemaker Plus, you needed to do that by the end of the first page.