How powerful is a PRAYER?

[SwedishMeatball]

Obviously it would be best if everybody stopped, but IMO, at least the non-believers don't beat around the bush or make excuses about the posts from people like orljustin. Yes they are harsh, but only as harsh as the many of the posts from believers in the first few pages of this thread.

I guess you have to be one of us to get how badly some of these posts from believers come accross.

What one person considers harsh another person won't. Some people are more sensitive than others. It seemed to me it was a fairly progressive conversation with people sharing their feelings. I don't see why that should be offensive just because they may be different. I think the whole topic just annoys some people to such an extreme that they have a difficult time looking at it objectively and perhaps hear insults when none are intended. This goes for both sides.

Really? I'm harsh? For stating my opinion? Wow. Feel free to point out any particularly "harsh" posts.

Again, it's subjective. If you don't think you're being harsh, fine. However, if several people consider your comments harsh (including cardaway as he stated above), then you have the choice to listen and either attempt to adjust how you state your opinions or not.

 

[JennyMominRI]

which then leads to unbelievers calling believers ignorant. Namecalling only leads to more namecalling. This thread has been pretty good so far, I'd hate to see it degenerate into that.

I'd like to humbily suggest we call people something other than *unbelievers*. I mean technically, You could call me an unbeliever too, because I believe differently...Why not just say non-Christian? .I don't personally know any unbelievers..We all believe in something..Athiests believe in themselves..They believe in Love, they believe in Familly..They believe in kindness ..They just don't believe what *you* do..I would never call Non-Jews unbelievers

 

[cardaway]

I really do want to know what comments non believers consider insulting. I'm not trying to be annoying, I'm trying to understand so that when I do see something I can respond to it. I can pick out the obvious ones, but clearly I'm still missing something since you said I don't respond to them appropriately.

People have already commented on the posts that upset them. Given that, frankly I don't think you are sincere in wanting to see things from my perspective. And that's what I was trying to do, explain things from the other perspective.

I don't want to argue. I'll leave it up to the others to speak for themselves for now on. I find it very sad that now there is another thread on here basically saying non-believers are sad people and very few people have a problem with that.

 

[freckles and boo]

I'd like to humbily suggest we call people something other than *unbelievers*. I mean technically, You could call me an unbeliever too,because I believe differently...Why not just say non-Christian..I don't personally know any unbeliers..We all believe in some thing..AThiest believe in themselves..They believe in Love, they believe in Familly..They believe in kindness ..They just don't believe what *you* do..I would never call Non-Jews unbelievers

Sounds good to me. I believe in the power of chocolate.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

People have already commented on the psots that upset them. Given that, frankly I don;t think you are sincere in wanting to see things from our perspective. And that's what I was trying to do, explain things from the other perspective.

I don't want to argue. I'll leave it up tot he others to speak for themselves for now on. I find it very sad that now there is another thread on here basically saying non-believers are sad people and very few people have a problem with that.

I don't think it's fair though to consider any of us that haven't jumped on that poster as being insincere. Obviously we see it from different perspectives. I really thought she was referring to her own feelings. I think that poster should come back and clarify exactly what they meant. I don't think it is any of our responsibility to defend or critisize another poster.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I can't imagine anything sadder than not believing.[/url] infers that "not believing" causes you to have a pitiable life. She isn't referring to herself, because if she didn't believe, she'd be happy to be that way because it was her choice. She is stating her feeling that all those non-believers out there must be having a truly unfullfilling life. "How awful your life is, that you don't believe. How sad. How empty."


Of course, I don't take anything personally on an internet discussion forum, so I just counter with my opinion, which is just as valid.

Ok, I read that totally differently. I certainly don't think that unbelievers are unhappy or unfulfilled. I can understand how people feel good about their choices and want others to feel good too, but that doesn't mean that we all have to be making the same choices to feel good.

 

[jimmiej]

Two children did something they were told not to do, and we all suffer? Sounds logical.

Children? Not sure what you mean.

 

[phillybeth]

This is just ONE thing that I've seen God work out. While this has been going on, I have also seen medical issues and family issues and more all intertwining to work out for good for those who love Him. Yes, if it were one or two things, I could see it being labelled coincidence, and I understand that people who haven't experienced it might see only the tip of the iceburg and consider it chance . . . but once you've allowed Him to lead you, and once you've seen how He does it so much better than we do ourselves, then YOU KNOW.

Bolding mine. So only those who love god have good things happen? Those who don't are punished with death and disease.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

I'd like to humbily suggest we call people something other than *unbelievers*. I mean technically, You could call me an unbeliever too,because I believe differently...Why not just say non-Christian..I don't personally know any unbeliers..We all believe in some thing..AThiest believe in themselves..They believe in Love, they believe in Familly..They believe in kindness ..They just don't believe what *you* do..I would never call Non-Jews unbelievers

I agree. I was using it just for ease of conversation, but I see your point. Thanks for that observation.

 

[phillybeth]

Children? Not sure what you mean.

Aren't we all god's children?

So two newly created beings had the experience and knowledge to know that their creator was setting them up? Surely you know the surest way to get a child to do something is to expressly tell them NOT to do it.

 

[cybrkitn]

but why should Grandpa be forcing his daughter into a faith that she no longer accepts and has her own reasons for abandoning. If his daughter is accepting of his faith and isn't pushing him to abandon it, why can't he have the same respect for her?

Good question. If the mother no longer accepts Catholism, she can always choose another denomination, but that would be a decision that she would need to make on her own. My DH did that. He was Catholic when we met, but decided to change to Lutheran. It's similar to Catholic, but there are differences. However, it was a decision that he alone made. I didn't pressure him b/c I felt that it was not my place to help him with it. Changing to a different denomination compared to what he grew up with was a big decision for him to make even though both denominations are similar.

The grandfather also knows his time here is short and that he will be in heaven soon. It sounds like he has found peace knowing that. He also sounds like he is worried about where her soul will go when her time comes. But, if she believes that he is coming on strong, she could talk to him and let him know in a respectful way. He may back off. He could also pray for her heart to be softened and for her anger to subside and be replaced with God's love for her.

 

[Alyssa88]

I think if the individual believes in prayer strongly enough then it may work for them. I do not pray (well I do, but that is more of an OCD thing than a true spiritual belief thing- I can't sleep if I don't say it), if I want something I work for it, if I fear something bad might happen I try my best not to let it. I try to remain positive when all looks negative.

I do think that prayer does help some people, maybe not for the same reason they believe it helps them, but I do think it does.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I'd like to humbily suggest we call people something other than *unbelievers*. I mean technically, You could call me an unbeliever too,because I believe differently...Why not just say non-Christian..I don't personally know any unbeliers..We all believe in some thing..AThiest believe in themselves..They believe in Love, they believe in Familly..They believe in kindness ..They just don't believe what *you* do..I would never call Non-Jews unbelievers

Good idea. I just didn't know what else to say. I don't view non-Christians as "unbelievers" . I refer to non-Christians by their faith, (Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, Buddhist), but I didn't know whether to use athiest or agnostic in the same way as I would use those terms.

 

[cardaway]

I think if the individual believes in prayer strongly enough then it may work for them. I do not pray (well I do, but that is more of an OCD thing than a true spiritual belief thing- I can't sleep if I don't say it), if I want something I work for it, if I fear something bad might happen I try my best not to let it. I try to remain positive when all looks negative.

I do think that prayer does help some people, maybe not for the same reason they believe it helps them, but I do think it does.

ITA!

 

[SwedishMeatball]

I just wanted to point out that people can believe in the power of prayer without subscribing to organized religion. This thread started out asking about prayer in general and has evolved into a lot of questions about issues addressed in the Bible. There's nothing wrong with that, but I just wanted to say that I know plenty of spiritual people that don't accept the Bible as their guidebook or attend a church, but they still believe in God.

 

[Buckalew11]

Bolding mine. So only those who love god have good things happen? Those who don't are punished with death and disease.

The Bible tells us that "all things work together for good for those who love the Lord". Bad things such as disease and death happen to everyone. Good things also happen to everyone. Her phrase is a promise to Christians that is in the Bible. It has nothing to do with Christians being more loved or blessed. They are not.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Bolding mine. So only those who love god have good things happen? Those who don't are punished with death and disease.

Not in my neighborhood. There certainly is no difference in circumstance between Christians and non-Christians. Bad things happen to everyone and good things happen to everyone. It's not like "you believe in God and everything is just going to be peachy" I'm really against that kind of thing. The affluence gospel being preached in some circles really irritates me as well. Believe in God and your bank account will rise?? Give me a break. A couple of years ago there was this "Prayer of Jabez" that everyone was on about. I read it and thought it was the antithesis of everything I believed. It was all about gaining stuff for yourself. Not what I read in the Gospels.
Now, the Purpose Driven Life is different, that author talks more about sacrifice for others and responsibility.

 

[cardaway]

I just wanted to point out that people can believe in the power of prayer without subscribing to organized religion. This thread started out asking about prayer in general and has evolved into a lot of questions about issues addressed in the Bible. There's nothing wrong with that, but I just wanted to say that I know plenty of spiritual people that don't accept the Bible as their guidebook or attend a church, but they still believe in God.

<--

 

[rockbottomsound]

I don't know. I pray quite a bit, but its not really ever to "ask" for worldly things, other than to maintain someones good health, or something. I don't pray for a new job or worldly goods.

I'm not sure how active a role God takes in this life, but I tend to err on the side of caution in that more prayer is good. I would advise to pray as much as you want. I wouldn't hold my breath on things like praying for a new car, or a million dollars or whatnot. I have seen stories where evidence points to the fact that God was answering a prayer, such as a fatal disease suddenly going into remission, etc., that would tend to point to an answered prayer. But I guess we will not know for sure in this life time.

 

[John VN]

Scenario.....

A tornado is heading for two houses. The people living in the houses are equally christian and praying. The tornado destroys both houses but one family lives and the other family dies.

The family that lives praises the lord and declares that praying saved them. The other family has no voice to be heard but others say that they are now with god and it was his will.

No matter how things turn out it is always a win-win situation when it comes to religion. That type of thinking is what many people need IMO and that is why people BELIEVE.

For many others it is simply the work of nature.