How powerful is a PRAYER?

[smartestnumber5]

It may seem as though your grandfather is being selfish. But I think he may have an understanding and a peace that your mother does not have right now. From what you have said, I can see that your mother is angry. But this is the right time to pray for her (also known as intercessary prayer). Pray for her anger to be replaced with love and for her to have strength to get through. Have faith that God will do it. Do not doubt. Be prepared to succeed and stand on God's Word (the Bible). If you doubt, then you are setting yourself up for failure and your prayer will not work. This is what I am learning to do from a book that I recently bought called, "Prayer Your Foundation for Success" by Kenneth Copeland. It's an excellent book for those who want to learn how to pray and what prayer does. (Sorry if that sounded like a commercial, LOL. I realized it after I read it back to myself a few times )

I'm not sure if my mother is lacking peace. I don't take her feeling conflict with the Catholic Church (the human institution, that is) as lacking peace. Now if she believes in God and is angry with him, I think that is a deeper conflict and it would be better for her if she could work it out. It's not clear to me though that returning to the Catholic Church is the best way to do that.

I kind of doubt that my grandfather has actually considered what might be best overall for my mother. I suspect he's just thinking "Oh, I'm Catholic and I have peace, so only being Catholic again would bring her peace" or "Catholicism is the only true religion, so that's the only thing that will bring her peace." Well I'm an atheist and I think the truth is that there isn't a God. And I have peace as an atheist, so if I reasoned the way my grandfather does, I'd have to conclude that the only way for my mom to have peace would be to become an atheist.

But I don't think that is true at all. I am who I am. My grandfather is who he is. But my mother is someone completely different. I don't think that what is best for me and my grandfather is necessarily best for her. Perhaps if my mom underwent a radical shift in her personality and emotions, she could be happy as an atheist. But given how she actually is, I don't think she'd be a very happy atheist. She is the type of person who looks at things like the birthing process and sunsets and sees some magic in them--in the spiritual sense. I am the type of person who looks at those things and am in awe--in the scientific sense. (Of course, one could have both of these senses, but she and I each only have one and we are not at all interested in the other one.) So I don't sit around thinking "Gee I wish Mom would see the light and become an atheist already" and I don't try to convince her that there is no God.

Honestly I don't know what type of religion would be best for her. Right now she seems to be looking at religion like my father does. He has no desire to go to church or be involved in any organized religion, but he believes in God and Christianity. (He is not an at peace person at all--he's just very cranky and pessimistic, but I don't think it has anything to do with religion.) It does seem that since she has not been going to church she has gotten more cynical about organized religion like he is. When she was getting her mastectomies people kept sending her cards which had in them some kind of information about how they bought her a special prayer (well, technically I guess they donated money for it) and she thought it was just ridiculous. She said, essentially--"Paying for prayers! Why not just say one and then donate the money to breast cancer research. Is God going to listen to these "special" prayers more than he would have listened to the prayer of an average person who actually knows me?" So it might be that this is the best thing for her--to have her religious beliefs but not need an organized religion.

I have mentioned to her (and other family members who have expressed unhappiness with the Catholic Church) that they might actually find another religion that suits them better. My mother is very into the devotion to Mary in the Catholic Church, and I doubt she can find that elsewhere; but as far as I understand, Episcopalianism tends to be very similar to Catholicism but without most of the things she objects to in the Catholic Church. Perhaps she could be happy there.

Maybe one day she will go back to the church and simply "agree to disagree" with it. This is the strategy most of the other members of my family take. They are Cafeteria Catholics or what I'd call Cultural Catholics (largely because they are Italian). Nobody is really that devoted to religion. We don't have anyone in the family (I mean the extended family--third cousins and what have you) who has ever decided to become a priest or a nun, and if they did the'd probably get from the family. Everyone uses birth control. No one except the old folks has much of a problem with premarital sex. Views on abortion are mixed. Views on war and the death penalty and euthanasia are mixed. I once did a survey of my immediate family (about 12 people) and only almost none of them knew what transubstantiation (the Catholic belief that the Eucharist is really becomes the body of Christ during the blessing); only one believed it and the others mostly thought it was ridiculous.] I think for my mom she just wasn't able to do the "agree to disagree thing" anymore when she felt that the Church was hurting her and her children.

In any case, I think my mom is in the best position to know what is best for her (or at least, to figure it out). If my grandfather wants to pray that she returns to the Catholic Church, I have no objection to that. But I do feel strongly that it is wrong to make her feel guilty.

 

[Aidensmom]

Right, according to that post, it more about our worthiness and how good we have been while here. If that is the case, there are a lot of "whews". And I am not one of them. I feel sure I am not good enough to enter Heaven. Nor will I ever be. I look around me and see better people everywhere.

I agree. I don't think I am a better, more "worthy" person because of my beliefs, rather I think I have my beliefs because I don't believe I am "good enough."

 

[rockbottomsound]

Right, according to that post, it more about our worthiness and how good we have been while here. If that is the case, there are a lot of "whews". And I am not one of them. I feel sure I am not good enough to enter Heaven. Nor will I ever be. I look around me and see better people everywhere.

Its not about how good of a person you are IMO but how much you "try" to be a better person. We all try and fail, we are all not worthy. But its the real effort we put forth. No one will ever live the perfect life, or will be perfectly good, but its the effort that we are striving for that. As long as we give 100% is all that matters IMO, not how far you actually got in the quest to be good. Its the effort that God will recognize. IMO.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I'm not exactly sure how you got that from my post. I was just posting an alternative view on the whole tornado scenario.

I don't know if I would classify it as "religious" being that IMO there are so many false religions out there. IMO its about being a good Christian, trying to be a positive influence, staying away from bad habits, things, actions, and generally trying to do good in life. But I also believe its about recognizing that Jesus does exist to save us from eternal nothingness, or worse, and giving him his due props for that. If you want to call that being religous, I guess you can. But just going to a particular church is not necessarily the answer at all. Its about your lifestyle, attitudes, goodness etc., not about going to a church and then leading an immoral life the rest of the time.

In my post I simply meant this life is just temporary, kind of the warm up show for the main attraction after we die, IMO. Otherwise, if this mere 70-80 years on this rock is all there is.......

Ok, but if our time here is temporary isn't it MORE important that we live well? Or, to put it another way, if I didn't believe in an afterlife I would probably be putting a lot more focus on making the most of this one.

 

[orljustin]

I'm not exactly sure how you got that from my post. I was just posting an alternative view on the whole tornado scenario.

Because you didn't mention anything about religion, or prayer, or loving Jesus, or any of that. You pointed out that living a good life might (might) have it's rewards.

I don't really believe there's anything after here, but I was just playing up that you didn't mention religion in your post.

Otherwise, if this mere 70-80 years on this rock is all there is.......

... and thus why people grab on to religion so tightly. They're afraid that this is all there is. That it actually does end someday. It's fear. It's unfullfillment.

Why not just accept what you have right now, and be happy with it. Why base your entire life on a theory?

 

[rockbottomsound]

Ok, but if our time here is temporary isn't it MORE important that we live well? Or, to put it another way, if I didn't believe in an afterlife I would probably be putting a lot more focus on making the most of this one.

Yes, I guess I'm not too good at getting my point across today. But yes. IMO this life is more or less a test. How well we do in this life (Spritually not financially) determines what happens to our spirit in the next life after this life on this planet is over. So yes how we act in this life is all important. Just not our physical comfort is what I was trying to point out. The successess, failures, personal triumphes etc., that we all experience in this life is fleeting, it won't last, its gone in a wink of an eye. What happens in the next life is what is lasting. At least that's what I believe.

That's not to say I think we should just kick back in a shell and "wait to die," no we should live the life fully, but in a positive, Christian way. Live to do good and not evil.

 

[freckles and boo]

I think a lot of athiests are more tolerant than a lot of Christians. I've never been pressured to become an athiest by anyone, but I sure have been told I'm not a "real Christian" because I'm Catholic by a lot of Christians!

My dad is a born-again and isn't usually all that preachy. He is typically a live and let live kind of guy. He adores my husband and would never cross the line, but he loves to give him grief about Catholicism and all the ritualism, saints, etc. Even though my husband is disillusioned, he finds himself defending it. The funny thing is my dad was raised Catholic, too!

 

[Aidensmom]

Why not just accept what you have right now, and be happy with it. Why base your entire life on a theory?

Speaking for myself, I do accept what I have now and am happy with it. I have a fulfilling life, it just happens to also include God.

 

[rockbottomsound]

Because you didn't mention anything about religion, or prayer, or loving Jesus, or any of that. You pointed out that living a good life might (might) have it's rewards.

I don't really believe there's anything after here, but I was just playing up that you didn't mention religion in your post.



... and thus why people grab on to religion so tightly. They're afraid that this is all there is. That it actually does end someday. It's fear. It's unfullfillment.

Why not just accept what you have right now, and be happy with it. Why base your entire life on a theory?

Well in my belief system, which is just pretty much Christian with no bells or whistles, I believe that you do have to give Jesus his props for what he's done. Which is give us worthless humans a chance to have an after life. So yes I believe all of that is important, but its all about your own personal relationship with God/Jesus, its not about the importance of an organized religous institution that may have totally gotten away from what God/Jesus/Religion is supposed to be all about. Which is saving humans from eternal death.

Your own relationship with God/Jesus is what matters, not about what your local church down the street is up too. Churches are full of men, which means they are full of sinners. With that being said there have been a lot of bad things that have happened over history in the name of religion, but that is when it becomes a false sense of religion. It gets away from what its supposed to be about, your own personal relationship with God/Jesus and how you live your life. IMO.

 

[John VN]

It depends on your perspective. If you think that prayer should offer you something that you specifically ask for, then I think people would give up on it altogether because obviously we would all be disappointed. As I said at the very beginning of this thread, I don't pray for specific things to happen, but rather for strength, guidance and to accept God's will.

What I don't understand is why you feel that you must pray for strength, guidance and to accept God's will when in the prayer it states, "his will be done." I would think this means whether you pray or not.

Do you not have enough faith in yourself to summon the strength or guide you where you think you must head or to accept what comes or does not come to you?

 

[Fitswimmer]

Because you didn't mention anything about religion, or prayer, or loving Jesus, or any of that. You pointed out that living a good life might (might) have it's rewards.

I don't really believe there's anything after here, but I was just playing up that you didn't mention religion in your post.



... and thus why people grab on to religion so tightly. They're afraid that this is all there is. That it actually does end someday. It's fear. It's unfullfillment.

Why not just accept what you have right now, and be happy with it. Why base your entire life on a theory?

The two things are not mutually exclusive. I can accept my life here, be happy and still believe in an afterlife. My faith is really more about my life now than it is about the future. I know there are a lot of Christians that are very focused on the End Times, but it's not a big part of my life. I figure if I get through each day the best I can, then the end times will take care of themselves.

 

[rockbottomsound]

... and thus why people grab on to religion so tightly. They're afraid that this is all there is. That it actually does end someday. It's fear. It's unfullfillment.

Why not just accept what you have right now, and be happy with it. Why base your entire life on a theory?

Well I don't want to write a novel here on this subject, so I'll try and be brief. For me worldy things are all very unfullfilling. I've tried the wild lifestyle, you name it, and it totally made me go the other way, to embrace Jesus and the Christian lifestyle. When I did that, my life became much more fulfilled. Worldly things IMO are too fleeting to be fulfilling. I'm excluding things such as family, but otherwise, this world is just not for me.

You're right, I can't prove that there is something after we die, although I do feel it deep down in my inner core. Without Jesus and being saved after you die, what is the alternative? Eternal nothingness? Or even worse eternal damnation? Those are not a very happy alternatives IMO.

But there is a lot of evidence if you look that's out there. I started a thread about the Ouja Board on here. To me, experiences with that thing totally validates the Bible for me. Just to give you one example. Things that happen that have virtually no other explanation other than there is something else out there, than just the here and now on this lonely little planet.

 

[Fitswimmer]

What I don't understand is why you feel that you must pray for strength, guidance and to accept God's will when in the prayer it states, "his will be done." I would think this means whether you pray or not.

Do you not have enough faith in yourself to summon the strength or guide you where you think you must head or to accept what comes or does not come to you?

I find that I need to pray for strength to accept God's will for me. As far as guidance, that's more of a hope that God will help me make the right decisions. I don't sit there and wait for God to make decisions for me, I pray about them and then make them myself and I'm responsible for the consequences of my actions. It's more of a partnership in my view when it comes to that kind of thing.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

... and thus why people grab on to religion so tightly. They're afraid that this is all there is. That it actually does end someday. It's fear. It's unfullfillment.

Why not just accept what you have right now, and be happy with it. Why base your entire life on a theory?

Only speaking for myself, but my belief is definitely not based or motivated by fear. I am by nature a happy person and I don't know how much of that would be credited to my belief in God. If upon my deathbed you could offer me solid proof that I did not have a soul and it was simply the end for me, I would not look back upon my life with regret for my choices.

 

[orljustin]

Well I don't want to write a novel here on this subject, so I'll try and be brief. For me worldy things are all very unfullfilling. I've tried the wild lifestyle, you name it, and it totally made me go the other way, to embrace Jesus and the Christian lifestyle. When I did that, my life became much more fulfilled. Worldly things IMO are too fleeting to be fulfilling. I'm excluding things such as family, but otherwise, this world is just not for me.

You're right, I can't prove that there is something after we die, although I do feel it deep down in my inner core. Without Jesus and being saved after you die, what is the alternative? Eternal nothingness? Or even worse eternal damnation? Those are not a very happy alternatives IMO.

Ok, so what I get, is you don't really like living here, but you're biding your time, following a set of rules you've been given that promises you something better, hoping that "there" is better than "here".

What's the alternative? You're dead. You cease functioning. You lose consciousness forever. Why does something have to happen?

You shouldn't be banking on an afterlife, to the detriment of your life here, imo. That's a pretty sad way to spend 80 years. Just waiting to die.

 

[jimmiej]

Its not about how good of a person you are IMO but how much you "try" to be a better person. We all try and fail, we are all not worthy. But its the real effort we put forth. No one will ever live the perfect life, or will be perfectly good, but its the effort that we are striving for that. As long as we give 100% is all that matters IMO, not how far you actually got in the quest to be good. Its the effort that God will recognize. IMO.

I'm going to disagree with this. As you correctly state, we cannot be perfect. We're all sinners. There's nothing I can do (on my own) to make myself worthy to God. That's why Jesus came. God heaped all our sin on Him as He died on the cross. We can now be re-united to God because our sin penalty has been paid.

Mark 16:16

16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

What I don't understand is why you feel that you must pray for strength, guidance and to accept God's will when in the prayer it states, "his will be done." I would think this means whether you pray or not.

Do you not have enough faith in yourself to summon the strength or guide you where you think you must head or to accept what comes or does not come to you?

I pray because I want to. It's really just that simple for me personally.

I suppose that some may view people that pray as weak and needing "something" to lean on. Maybe. I've tried it both ways. I'm a strong-willed person and there have been moments when I've said, "Screw you, God" and turned away. I won't say that I failed in life during those times, but my personal relationship with God is very complex. I love Him and I feel loved by Him, and it's comforting when I reach out and feel Him closer. I don't expect this to make sense to someone who has never experienced it.

 

[jimmiej]

You shouldn't be banking on an afterlife, to the detriment of your life here, imo. That's a pretty sad way to spend 80 years. Just waiting to die.

If the Bible is true, our "80 years" will seem like nothing compared to eternity. If it isn't, Christians have "wasted" their lives serving others.

 

[freckles and boo]

If the Bible is true, our "80 years" will seem like nothing compared to eternity. If it isn't, Christians have "wasted" their lives serving others.

Serving others isn't a waste but it is a shame if you are only doing it for the reward of eternal life. That is a very selfish and self-serving perspective.

 

[jimmiej]

Serving others isn't a waste but it is a shame if you are only doing it for the reward of eternal life. That is a very selfish and self-serving perspective.

You don't get eternal life through good deeds. See post #276. I serve others because I love Jesus. It's a response of gratitude for what He did for me.