How powerful is a PRAYER?

[Buckalew11]

I understand. But someone did follow her comment with "Living in a fantasyworld?" Hardly respectful of believers either.

 

[Tiggerlover91]

Very simply put, sometimes the answer to our prayers is not yes or no...just simply...not now. I don't always get the answers I want, but more often the answers I NEED. It's a powerful thing...and I'm happy to do it for anyone.

 

[Kath2003]

If God is the creator of everything, why would he create disease to harm humans? What purpose does that serve?

 

[orljustin]

I understand. But someone did follow her comment with "Living in a fantasyworld?" Hardly respectful of believers either.

She said "I cannot imagine anything sadder than to NOT believe." To me, living your life in a fantasy world is sadder. You can take that however you like.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Even if the person was in a persistent vegetative state? This is where a great moral division exists, does it not?

I have a living will and there is no conflict with that and my faith. It is perfectly acceptable within the Catholic tradition to have a living will that states once brain function has ceased no extraordinary means are to be used to prolong life.

There are huge moral divisions even within the believing community about beginning and end of life issues. There are also differences about how prayer works. There are people who believe that disease is a punishment from God-I'm not one of them. There are people who believe that prayer can ward off or cure disease, and I'm not one of those either. I can't explain or defend either of those positions.

 

[phillybeth]

I understand. But someone did follow her comment with "Living in a fantasyworld?" Hardly respectful of believers either.

Not too many years ago, I may have been just as flippant, responding to a similar comment. Many atheists (unbelievers or heathens as we are called) are just as loud, strident and annoying as the 'Christians' who think we are a threat to morality, truth, justice and the American way. But shouting matches are not my style.

I've learned that respect goes both ways- that if I want someone to respect my choices and beliefs, I have to respect theirs. Admitting you could be wrong is the beginning of wisdom, or so my grandfather used to say.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Not too many years ago, I may have been just as flippant, responding to a similar comment. Many atheists (unbelievers or heathens as we are called) are just as loud, strident and annoying as the 'Christians' who think we are a threat to morality, truth, justice and the American way. But shouting matches are not my style.

I've learned that respect goes both ways- that if I want someone to respect my choices and beliefs, I have to respect theirs. Admitting you could be wrong is the beginning of wisdom, or so my grandfather used to say.

I've said things in posts and in RL that I've later come to regret regarding both believers and unbelievers. It's hard to walk the fine line of expressing your feelings about what you believe and putting someone else down for not believing the same thing. Most of us are proud and happy with our choices and sometimes that can come off as elitist or bragging, and I don't want to do that.

One of the things I love about this board is that, for the most part, we can all discuss some pretty heavy issues respectfully. Just another piece of Disney magic!

 

[Buckalew11]

She said "I cannot imagine anything sadder than to NOT believe." To me, living your life in a fantasy world is sadder. You can take that however you like.

Trust me, I took it like you meant it.

 

[orljustin]

Good. Then the message got across.

 

[Buckalew11]

Not too many years ago, I may have been just as flippant, responding to a similar comment. Many atheists (unbelievers or heathens as we are called) are just as loud, strident and annoying as the 'Christians' who think we are a threat to morality, truth, justice and the American way. But shouting matches are not my style.

I've learned that respect goes both ways- that if I want someone to respect my choices and beliefs, I have to respect theirs. Admitting you could be wrong is the beginning of wisdom, or so my grandfather used to say.

I can say the same type of thing, phillybeth. I think both sides of this arguement have said things they regret saying--or at least how it sounds to others.
I like the respectful religious threads. I learn a lot. Usually someone makes a comment that triggers my curiousity and I have to look things up or it makes me reflect or "just what do I believe" about something. Often, people don't want to fool with being respectful and it just gets ugly quickly. There have been some very good discussions where all sides contribute some very thought-provoking ideas.

 

[cybrkitn]

short of committing suicide, death should be the greatest thing in the world for a believer. why are we praying for their recovery from a surgery? we should be praying God lets them die and hang out with him in Heaven.

I can give you a personal example of why we should be praying for someone. Some of you may even remember my telling of this on different threads in the past.

My SIL died of cancer last April at age 54. She was on her death bed a few times before the end. We were all praying for her to be healed. She bounced back those previous times and the last time she did, even her doctor was amazed and said it was a miracle. Her whole body was shutting down but made a turn-around and started healing.

During this whole time she was still ministering to her husband (DH's oldest brother) and her youngest son, who is in his early 30's. Neither knew God. They knew of him but didn't know him. Our SIL had said that she wouldn't go until her husband and youngest son came to Christ. Her husband did, but the seed was planted in her youngest.

Prayer does work. Especially if you are praying for someone. We have our younger nephew on our church's prayer concern list. Not only was he having a difficult time coping with the death of his mother, but he has a lot of other problems/issues as well. Praying for him in faith enables God to work inside our nephew. Family can not change him on the inside, but God can. We pray for his heart to be softened so that the Word of God can reach him. And it has already started to work. Over the holidays, our nephew made the decision to start going to the church that his older brother pastors. His older brother was ministering to him on occasion, but wasn't pushing it in his face. People were still praying for him regardless of him knowing it or not. He made the decision on his own to go to church and is slowly coming to know God.

 

[orljustin]

During this whole time she was still ministering to her husband (DH's oldest brother) and her youngest son, who is in his early 30's. Neither knew God. They knew of him but didn't know him. Our SIL had said that she wouldn't go until her husband and youngest son came to Christ. Her husband did, but the seed was planted in her youngest.

Push, push, push it onto them, until you get 'em convinced. Sure sounds like a great way to spread your beliefs. Sounds like the whole family is pressuring the poor guy. Maybe you could just give him some plain 'ole familial support, and not try to tie it all into the Church.

I'm glad your praying has helped you get through your time, but I don't for a moment believe you are out there changing anyone or pointing a god to someone who needs to be changed.

 

[cardaway]

Comments like this in the past have been followed up with calling us dumb, stupid and misguided, and then offering to pray for us.

More times than I can count.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Comments like this in the past have been followed up with calling us dumb, stupid and misguided, and then offering to pray for us.

which then leads to unbelievers calling believers ignorant. Namecalling only leads to more namecalling. This thread has been pretty good so far, I'd hate to see it degenerate into that.

 

[Disney Doll]

For those who believe in it, prayer works wonderfully. For those who do not believe in it, it won't work at all. But those folks have probably found other things that work for them in their time of need.

Neither is wrong or bad. Just different.

orljustin, I do wish you'd chill, doll. Your posts always seem so mad.

 

[cardaway]

which then leads to unbelievers calling believers ignorant. Namecalling only leads to more namecalling. This thread has been pretty good so far, I'd hate to see it degenerate into that.

Pretty good? I guess this wouldn't be the first time people looked past the posts that take shots at non-believers.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Pretty good? I guess this wouldn't be the first time people looked past the posts that take shots at non-believers.

What did I miss? Seriously, I thought it was pretty good. I ignored the "fantasy world" comment because it was in the minority.

 

[cardaway]

What did I miss? Seriously, I thought it was pretty good. I ignored the "fantasy world" comment because it was in the minority.

You have already responded to somebody who brought up one of the "sad" comments. You either see those damaging to the thread as the "fantasy world" comment or you don't. IMO they are just as bad, and the "sad" comments came pretty early on in thread. The fellow beleivers ignored them and moved on.

 

[Fitswimmer]

You have already responded to somebody who brought up one of the "sad" comments. You either see those damaging to the thread as the "fantasy world" comment or you don't. IMO they are just as bad, and the "sad" comments came pretty early on in thread. The fellow beleivers ignored them and moved on.

I truly felt that the poster who was sad about not believing was speaking for herself, that she would be sad without her faith. I would too, my faith helps me. I didn't see anyone calling non-believers stupid, or even saying that they would "pray for them". I didn't see any posts saying that non-believers were "going to Hell", the only comments about Hell came from a non-believer.
I'm really missing the insult then, and I need you to point it out specifically. If I know what is considered insulting to non-believers it's more likely that I won't inadvertently use those types of comments in the future.

 

[smartestnumber5]

I can give you a personal example of why we should be praying for someone. Some of you may even remember my telling of this on different threads in the past.

My SIL died of cancer last April at age 54. She was on her death bed a few times before the end. We were all praying fo r her to be healed. She bounced back those previous times and the last time she did, even her doctor was amazed and said it was a miracle. Her whole body was shutting down but made a turn-around and started healing.

During this whole time she was still ministering to her husband (DH's oldest brother) and her youngest son, who is in his early 30's. Neither knew God. They knew of him but didn't know him. Our SIL had said that she wouldn't go until her husband and youngest son came to Christ. Her husband did, but the seed was planted in her youngest.

Prayer does work. Especially if you are praying for someone. We have our younger nephew on our church's prayer concern list. Not only was he having a difficult time coping with the death of his mother, but he has a lot of other problems/issues as well. Praying for him in faith enables God to work inside our nephew. Family can not change him on the inside, but God can. We pray for his heart to be softened so that the Word of God can reach him. And it has already started to work. Over the holidays, our nephew made the decision to start going to the church that his older brother pastors. His older brother was ministering to him on occasion, but wasn't pushing it in his face. People were still praying for him regardless of him knowing it or not. He made the decision on his own to go to church and is slowly coming to know God.

This reminds me of my mother. She was (is?) Catholic but stopped going to church a few years ago. She had many problems with Catholic School's treatment of my brother which first made her question the church. Then she got tired of all of the anti-abortion talk and the support of the Republican party. Finally I after I came out to her, she had trouble respecting an institution that was working to help the government discriminate against me. So she just stopped going. (When she got breast cancer in both breasts at the same time last year, she was thought God must be punishing her. I felt horrible for her that she thought this and everyone in the family shook their heads But really, it was the logical conclusion to draw; if God heals illness, then he must cause it too she figured. But that's another story.)

In any case though, her father is in his early 80s and has had heart problems for the last 25 years. His heart is now working at something like 8% or something. So he's kind of just be slowly dying for a few years--getting worse and worse. He still believes in Catholicism and watches mass on television since he can't leave the house to go to church. Lately he has begun begging his two daughters (my mom and my aunt) to watch mass with him. My aunt is still Catholic and goes to mass everyday, so he just wants her to watch with him so he can feel like they are at church together. She's not very interested in that, but is willing to do it for him. With my mom, though, he doesn't just want her to watch mass--he keeps bothering her asking her when she is going to go back to the church and tells her it hurts him that she has this rift with the church. She responds truthfully that maybe someday she'll go back, but it isn't going to happen right now. But she told me that she doesn't know what to do. She knows he's going to die soon and all he wants is for her to go back to the church and watch mass with him and she's going to feel so guilty if he dies while she's been refusing that. But on the other hand, she just can't go back to an institution which she is so angry at right now; and even the idea of watching a mass is not something she wants.

The whole thing just makes me and . She's being made out to feel selfish when it's really my grandfather who is the selfish one. Even if he's being honest about his feelings about her relationship with the church, he has to know what it does to her to tell her about it as he's near his death bed. In general, I feel pretty anti about unsolicited attempts to persuade other people about what religious beliefs they have. But what my grandfather is doing is just a low blow. It's like he wants her to feel guilty for the rest of her life after his death.

After trying to comfort my mom, I told her, "Just think of it like this. What if he were trying to guilt you into being an atheist? Then you wouldn't feel bad. He'd just be a jerk."