How much would you lie for your kids?

[luvsJack]

My mom lied for me. She mistakenly moved off of district and realized to late.
This have me anxiety because I didn't to be caught. Unfortunately my brother was. She was able to figure out a solution to get us back in district.

I would not lie for my kids.

No one needs to walk a mile on anyone's shoes to realize the impact of lying. I have no interest on teachings child to lie.

My mom wasn't a welfare statistic either. But her pay was low when she was single and she always chose to live far from work and commute to the base because the situation was never any good near the bases. This unfortunately meant cuts on other areas.

I still wouldn't lie for my kids. My mom shouldn't have lied either.

Right or wrong, what the pp is trying to point out is that sometimes there are gray areas, that don't excuse lying but can certainly explain it.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Right or wrong, what the pp is trying to point out is that sometimes there are gray areas, that don't excuse lying but can certainly explain it.

That's exactly what I was saying. We lived in the commonly known as " welfare area". The day I was called in and told my oldest daughter was going to go into " special classes " I absolutely flipped. They hadn't tested her. I asked to see test results.

I knew she was reading 5th grade level books in the 2nd grade. The lower income school districts got govt funding the more kids were placed in " special needs". I wasn't stupid, my kid wasn't going to be labeled and thus held back from all her potential because of an address. It was also a crime ridden area drugs easily obtained on street corners.

The moral of this life lesson is NEVER say never.

 

[Mickeyluver37]

What I don't understand is the mentality of "I want to have the benefits, but not pay for it" If you live in an area with higher taxes you usually have more benefits. You can't live in a place where you don't have to pay the taxes but get the same resources as the people who ARE paying the taxes.

Our area schools have a lot of resources and we have a Rec center with all kinds of great things.
Kids from the neighboring city come to our rec center and their parents want to join, but they get upset when we tell them the non-resident fees are quite a bit higher than what residents pay.
We explain to them that the resident fees are less, because residents are paying taxes to the building, and non-residents don't pay taxes to us, so to make up for that, their membership fees are higher.
Then they complain that they have to come to our rec center because their city doesn't offer a rec center...but every time they have tax votes they vote against higher taxes, so it's no wonder they don't have the things our city has.
I mean, you can't get things for free. SOMEONE has to pay for it: It makes sense that the areas with higher taxes have more resources. It isn't right to go to another district and use their resources while your tax money is going somewhere else.

I'm intrigued by this thread because I get from what I'm reading that we do it a little different here than they do in most states. I know that it's done differently in NY and PA than here, but not sure how rare MD's situation is. Our school districts are by county. So, while I live in one of the better of the 12 feeder HS areas, and pay probably on the higher end as far as property taxes in our county, that money isn't necessarily going to my kids' schools. And we don't have "school tax." We just have one property tax, that includes all county services, including trash pickup. That money all goes in one pot and gets redistributed to all the schools in the county. In fact, I would say the "poorer" schools actually get MORE of the money per student, especially when it comes to extracurricular funding, because the parents are deemed to not be able pitch in for these things.


While there are clear cut boundary lines for each school within the county, based on where you live, my understanding is a lot of people have been able to still go to the school of their choice based on out of area transfer waivers, at the principal's discretion, as long as it's within the same county. And one REAL hot button issue going on in our county right now is the influx of undocumented citizens that are protected by federal law in having to show proof of address or immunizations. Apparently they can just go to whatever school they want.

And no, I would never lie. We worked our butts of for years to be able to afford to buy a house in a good district, and we're still making sacrifices every day to be able to afford that mortgage and tax payment. No way should it be available to anyone who feels like it without putting forth the effort. Schools do get re-districted, and that's beyond anyone's control. But in the internet age, no one is "accidentally" buying a house in the wrong district. Do your research before you move.

 

[luvsJack]

I'm intrigued by this thread because I get from what I'm reading that we do it a little different here than they do in most states. I know that it's done differently in NY and PA than here, but not sure how rare MD's situation is. Our school districts are by county. So, while I live in one of the better of the 12 feeder HS areas, and pay probably on the higher end as far as property taxes in our county, that money isn't necessarily going to my kids' schools. And we don't have "school tax." We just have one property tax, that includes all county services, including trash pickup. That money all goes in one pot and gets redistributed to all the schools in the county. In fact, I would say the "poorer" schools actually get MORE of the money per student, especially when it comes to extracurricular funding, because the parents are deemed to not be able pitch in for these things.


While there are clear cut boundary lines for each school within the county, based on where you live, my understanding is a lot of people have been able to still go to the school of their choice based on out of area transfer waivers, at the principal's discretion, as long as it's within the same county. And one REAL hot button issue going on in our county right now is the influx of undocumented citizens that are protected by federal law in having to show proof of address or immunizations. Apparently they can just go to whatever school they want.

And no, I would never lie. We worked our butts of for years to be able to afford to buy a house in a good district, and we're still making sacrifices every day to be able to afford that mortgage and tax payment. No way should it be available to anyone who feels like it without putting forth the effort. Schools do get re-districted, and that's beyond anyone's control. But in the internet age, no one is "accidentally" buying a house in the wrong district. Do your research before you move.

Now, of course there was no internet back then but what happened to my parents could happen to anyone regardless of the internet so yes it can happen that you accidentally buy in the wrong district.

The school that I was supposed to go to was actually in the same district as the school I went to. The lines were in one place and then one summer they re-did the lines. If a person did all their research and bought a house in May or June and the school lines were re-drawn in July--they would accidentally be in a different school district.

Since that time they have reopened a small community school here and that is the school my kids attended. But our neighboring county has had the same problem with redistricting due to one school being overfilled and needing to send some of the kids to another school. It would be very easy to accidentally end up in the wrong school district.

My mom (and those folks that may be doing the same thing in the nearby county) paid the same taxes as the parents of the kids going to the better school. She paid taxes for the county school district and for the high school (where she didn't have a child attending for years). She worked hard for us to have a house in a nice area and her kids were supposed to go to a nice school.

ETA: I don't think its fair for someone to cross district lines or even lines within the district but I do understand why some people do it.

 

[nkereina]

I remember this happening when I was in high school. I had a friend that used her grandparents address because they were in the right district. Really, no harm done.

A girlfriend of mine just had her kids kicked out of a district because she used her in-laws address, which is just a mile away from her house (but in a different district). Ironically, the kids take the bus to and from the in-laws house because they watch them before and after school. Now these kids are being forced to leave their friends and comfort zone and switch to a brand new school. So at the end of the day, you're putting the kids at risk by doing this. I'd assume she thought she wouldn't get caught, or could play it off, or the school would take mercy but none of that happened. And what may be worse, it was another parent who blem them in Yes, my friend was wrong for doing it initially but to the other parent - MYOB

 

[Luvchefmic]

I remember this happening when I was in high school. I had a friend that used her grandparents address because they were in the right district. Really, no harm done.

A girlfriend of mine just had her kids kicked out of a district because she used her in-laws address, which is just a mile away from her house (but in a different district). Ironically, the kids take the bus to and from the in-laws house because they watch them before and after school. Now these kids are being forced to leave their friends and comfort zone and switch to a brand new school. So at the end of the day, you're putting the kids at risk by doing this. I'd assume she thought she wouldn't get caught, or could play it off, or the school would take mercy but none of that happened. And what may be worse, it was another parent who blem them in Yes, my friend was wrong for doing it initially but to the other parent - MYOB

You're going to be told it IS peoples' business because they are paying the school taxes for the better school. As far as the grandparent's address, in my opinion there was no harm done ( yes I guess I am justifying what I did ) because the grandparents were paying those same taxes yet had no one in the school. Your girlfriend wasn't pushing anyone else out by going there.

 

[barkley]

it was common when I went to high school. we lived near the county line, and the guys who were into football but lived in the adjacent county would lie every fall so they could attend my high school (much better team/opportunities for pro/college scouting). come the end of football season they changed their addresses back until the following fall. everyone knew what was going on. that district is now rabid on verifying addresses-in fact, in California a student athlete can be sanctioned from play at any school for falsifying an address, AND entire school teams can be sanctioned from play if the school doesn't enforce residence eligibility rules.


we live right on the boarder of 2 districts-I was floored when someone I had never met/didn't know called me out of the blue a few years ago to ask if they could use my address so their kids could attend in our district (they got our name/number from a mutual friend who thought they were just calling us to inquire if we liked the district we were in). I told them 'absolutely not'-then emailed our district's superintendent to document the conversation (advised him that if ANYONE tried using our address to contact us immediately).

 

[lvillotta1]

This is easy to do. My mom lives a block from the school my kids go to. I would have had to take over her water or electric bill with my name on it to show proof of address and say we were living with her. But I was able to opt my kids in legally by doing the paperwork and we are very happy. It does not take much these days to get what you want whether is be right or wrong.

 

[nugov2]

This is easy to do. My mom lives a block from the school my kids go to. I would have had to take over her water or electric bill with my name on it to show proof of address and say we were living with her. But I was able to opt my kids in legally by doing the paperwork and we are very happy. It does not take much these days to get what you want whether is be right or wrong.

Our district will only take certain proof. You have to have a DL with valid address and a tax bill with your name. Utility bills will not work. If you don't have a DL you must have a state ID. Guess some districts caught on to that trick. If you are a renter you have to show a renters insurance policy instead of tax bill.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Right or wrong, what the pp is trying to point out is that sometimes there are gray areas, that don't excuse lying but can certainly explain it.

That's exactly what I was saying. We lived in the commonly known as " welfare area". The day I was called in and told my oldest daughter was going to go into " special classes " I absolutely flipped. They hadn't tested her. I asked to see test results.

I knew she was reading 5th grade level books in the 2nd grade. The lower income school districts got govt funding the more kids were placed in " special needs". I wasn't stupid, my kid wasn't going to be labeled and thus held back from all her potential because of an address. It was also a crime ridden area drugs easily obtained on street corners.

The moral of this life lesson is NEVER say never.

Passing it off as feeling no guilt indicates that there was only right and it would be done again.

I can in good conscience say--I will never lie for my child to gain them something that isn't theirs.

My mom lied over a mistake and I am happy she corrected it. And then she advocated for me in each and every school rather than deliberately sneak me into a school I had no place in. Nothing of value to be gained by living a lie. Been there, done that and much preferred that my mother fixed her error rather than continue the deceit. As a minor, I had little control over her choices. I would never force my child to do that. And yes, I do mean NEVER.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Passing it off as feeling no guilt indicates that there was only right and it would be done again.
I can in good conscience say--I will never lie for my child to gain them something that isn't theirs.

My mom lied over a mistake and I am happy she corrected it. And then she advocated for me in each and every school rather than deliberately sneak me into a school I had no place in. Nothing of value to be gained by living a lie. Been there, done that and much preferred that my mother fixed her error rather than continue the deceit. As a minor, I had little control over her choices. I would never force my child to do that. And yes, I do mean NEVER.

Lisa that is exactly what I said. Right or wrong, legal or not, I do feel no guilt and would do it again.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Lisa that is exactly what I said. Right or wrong, legal or not, I do feel no guilt and would do it again.

I understood you fully then.

 

[luvsJack]

Passing it off as feeling no guilt indicates that there was only right and it would be done again.

I can in good conscience say--I will never lie for my child to gain them something that isn't theirs.

My mom lied over a mistake and I am happy she corrected it. And then she advocated for me in each and every school rather than deliberately sneak me into a school I had no place in. Nothing of value to be gained by living a lie. Been there, done that and much preferred that my mother fixed her error rather than continue the deceit. As a minor, I had little control over her choices. I would never force my child to do that. And yes, I do mean NEVER.

So, let me ask you. You have a home that you have worked and saved to purchase. You are established in your area with jobs or a business and moving would be almost to the point of not an option. You chose the area due to the schools your kids would attend. Suddenly your told that your children have to attend a different school that is in a crime ridden area that you know for a fact has had drug dealers on campus and violence in the school yard by kids in school as well as folks in the neighborhood. WWYD?

Or you are a single mom that, due to a lack of funds or help from the ex, cannot move to another district. Your kids may not be safe in the district you live in.

Or, your child is being horribly bullied at the school whose district you live in. You cannot get action. Private school is not an option. Using grandma's address would remove your child from the problems. WWYD?

I cannot and will not say that lying is right. But, I can and will say that if I was put in any of those three circumstances, I would choose the same route my mother did. There is no way I would put one of my children in the school that she refused to put me in.

There can be more to crossing school lines than a better education or better athletic opportunities. Basic safety is not something that "isn't their's", imho.

 

[Christine]

I know you didn't ask me, but I'll give my answers:

You have a home that you have worked and saved to purchase. You are established in your area with jobs or a business and moving would be almost to the point of not an option. You chose the area due to the schools your kids would attend. Suddenly your told that your children have to attend a different school that is in a crime ridden area that you know for a fact has had drug dealers on campus and violence in the school yard by kids in school as well as folks in the neighborhood. WWYD?

This was me. I moved my kids to private school. It was actually quite cheap in the elementary and middle school years. It wasn't my first choice of what I ever wanted to do, but it's what I had to do. I *could* have gone to the DMV and changed my address legally to my parent's address but I just felt like the risk wasn't worth it when I could manage to scrape together the money for private school. I did forgo a lot of vacations, home repairs, and nice cars.

Or you are a single mom that, due to a lack of funds or help from the ex, cannot move to another district. Your kids may not be safe in the district you live in.

I'd probably try to game the system.

Or, your child is being horribly bullied at the school whose district you live in. You cannot get action. Private school is not an option. Using grandma's address would remove your child from the problems. WWYD?

Same thing, I'd take the risk and lie about it.

There can be more to crossing school lines than a better education or better athletic opportunities. Basic safety is not something that "isn't their's", imho.

I do try to look at things from the other side, though. If I paid the bucks and moved to an affluent area in a very homogenous school, where the PTA, due to large donations from parents, was able to make one school nicer than the rest...yeah, I'd probably be irritated that some of the people started violating the rules to get in the school. Those people move to get away from the "riff raff" and crime too. They probably view the encroachers as riff-raff.

 

[Luvchefmic]

I understood you fully then.

Yes you did. I did what I felt I had to do at the time to give my daughters the safest environment and best education I could. I can honestly say it was the one time in my life I was out and out morally corrupt. Until I read this thread I had actually forgotten about the choices made over 30 years ago.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

So, let me ask you. You have a home that you have worked and saved to purchase. You are established in your area with jobs or a business and moving would be almost to the point of not an option. You chose the area due to the schools your kids would attend. Suddenly your told that your children have to attend a different school that is in a crime ridden area that you know for a fact has had drug dealers on campus and violence in the school yard by kids in school as well as folks in the neighborhood. WWYD?


Or you are a single mom that, due to a lack of funds or help from the ex, cannot move to another district. Your kids may not be safe in the district you live in.

Or, your child is being horribly bullied at the school whose district you live in. You cannot get action. Private school is not an option. Using grandma's address would remove your child from the problems. WWYD?

I cannot and will not say that lying is right. But, I can and will say that if I was put in any of those three circumstances, I would choose the same route my mother did. There is no way I would put one of my children in the school that she refused to put me in.

There can be more to crossing school lines than a better education or better athletic opportunities. Basic safety is not something that "isn't their's", imho.

We homeschool. All your scenarios won't work for me. And yes, I know single moms and widowers who homeschool while pinching pennies as they opt not to partake of public schools and private schools are not an option.

My husband was also bussed to an inner city school. I attended 10 different schools.

I'm still not lying. Don't think it makes me better. But there are options that are legal. Crafting scenarios does not change my opinion. I have been the student attending a school illegally. I hated that. I will never put my children through that while teaching them that the only way to resolve a problem is to lie about it.

The unapologetic attitude about it, I find disturbing. Explaining it doesn't make it right as stated and thus I still don't think it right. Again -- more proud of my mom for remedying the issue than I would have been if she "did what she had to do". What she had to do was help us not have to lie. She really didn't have money, but she still broke a lease and found a different rental that was in area. Double checking the address was within boundaries this time.

 

[Chernabog#1fan]

I am not going to condone lying to go to a better school, but will also not say it makes a person dishonest for doing it. What I find sad is that this country has set up a system that makes it hard for parents who can not afford a nice house to be dealt with facing the decision of having to lie. A child has the right to a great education no matter what their parents can or can not afford. If we ever want to end poverty or get close to it in this country, we need to quit having that attitude that my child gets a better education because I sacrificed to buy a better house. Just my opinion.

 

[Mickeyluver37]

I do try to look at things from the other side, though. If I paid the bucks and moved to an affluent area in a very homogenous school, where the PTA, due to large donations from parents, was able to make one school nicer than the rest...yeah, I'd probably be irritated that some of the people started violating the rules to get in the school. Those people move to get away from the "riff raff" and crime too. They probably view the encroachers as riff-raff.

Well...no one is saying this because they'd be accused of being elitist, but let me ask this- Why don't these parents want their kids to go to these "bad" schools they are districted for? It's usually not the teachers, the building, the administration, the curriculum, etc, it's the demographic of the student body. The parents lying to get their kids in the school they don't belong also seem to think they are above such "riff-raff" or they'd keep their kids in their community schools.

 

[SirDuff]

]I am not going to condone lying to go to a better school, but will also not say it makes a person dishonest for doing it. [/B]What I find sad is that this country has set up a system that makes it hard for parents who can not afford a nice house to be dealt with facing the decision of having to lie. A child has the right to a great education no matter what their parents can or can not afford. If we ever want to end poverty or get close to it in this country, we need to quit having that attitude that my child gets a better education because I sacrificed to buy a better house. Just my opinion.

Doesn't lying pretty much the definition of being dishonest? It may be justified (to some), but lying about where your child lives does make you dishonest. I do agree with the rest of your post though (though I don't actually see that ever happening, I'm afraid).

Interesting story in our paper today, about a proposed movement of boundaries demarking school catchment zones.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...posed-school-boundary-change/article20714740/

 

[Mickeyluver37]

I am not going to condone lying to go to a better school, but will also not say it makes a person dishonest for doing it. What I find sad is that this country has set up a system that makes it hard for parents who can not afford a nice house to be dealt with facing the decision of having to lie. A child has the right to a great education no matter what their parents can or can not afford. If we ever want to end poverty or get close to it in this country, we need to quit having that attitude that my child gets a better education because I sacrificed to buy a better house. Just my opinion.

There is a HS school not too far from me that actually has all the same resources, as we are under the same county district, if not MORE funding, due to getting more Federal Aid for low income. It's also known for being the worst school in the county. The curriculum is the same. The teachers are paid on the same county scale. What can "this country" do to make it more equitable, when it's the parents in this situation who are violent or drug dealers, in and out of prison for who knows what, or apathetic towards their child's education, at best? The kids bring the violence and drugs to school, and I can guarantee you no one is lying to get their child into this school.