How much power should schools have?

[Nicoleclaw]

Personally I am not seeing how reducing money because some kids miss school helps. No kid left behind is the problem. Not everyone can succeed. Everyone develops at different rates. Yet we try to put a square peg in a round whole. If they don't fit, we figure a way to make it work.


Rather it should be simply put, the teacher has a standard the children need to attain by the end of the year. If a child can't make it, then they get left behind to retake that year over.

SOunds good to me, I totally agree!

 

[Colleen27]

I again was not saying it that anyone wanted a free for all. I was just saying there needs to be a written policy for attendance in place for several reasons. I am not sure what exactly what you would like the written policy to be? And what some of you are considering strict? 10 days? 20 days? What exactly would you like it to say in the parent handbook?

Well, the district I went to has a policy of automatic failure for more than 3 unexcused or 10 total (excused and unexcused) absences in a semester. A HS friend of mine didn't walk with us at graduation because she was hospitalized for part of our senior year, missed about 3 weeks of school, made up the work and kept her place on the honor roll, but was still denied credit. Her parents spent 3 months fighting the school board and had to hire a lawyer before the district gave in and gave her credit for that semester. That's nothing short of disgusting IMO.

I think common sense has been lost for the sake of CYA policies with no room for personal judgement. Attendance should never be the deciding factor for whether a student passes or fails. A student who cannot do the work shouldn't be passed along without help to catch up, and a student who has clearly mastered the material shouldn't have to worry about being retained for absences. An absence policy should, IMO, be more subjective. Our district's policy is to excuse family vacations and other elective absences unless they interfere with a student's academic progress, rather than setting an absolute cutoff.

 

[badblackpug]

The problem here is schools cannot make a policy that only pertains to some. This could end up being highly prejudicial. How is the school/teacher to decide whose absence is more "worthy?" One could argue that keeping an older child home to watch a baby so that the parent can go to work is more of a necessity than a vacation. After all, the parent needs to keep working to feed and shelter her children. ...and to be honest a WDW vacation is a luxury. I think there definitely needs to be attendance policies. There are parents out there who aren't involved, whose children miss school for trivial reasons, or simply because the parent can't be bothered. This is not to say that a sick child should be sent to school, but I do believe that every effort should be made to ensure that a child attends school on a regular basis. If there were no attendance policy, and/or the school did not enforce it's policies, it would be basically a free for all. There would be children who attended sporadically, and whose academic careers would suffer because of this. Classroom instruction time is important, for many reasons. I, for one, feel that teachers are more than "babysitters."

There needs to be a balance. I think the way our school district handles it is fair. We have "excused" absences and "allowable" absences. Excused absences are any illness with a Dr's note, college visits, and death in the family. "Allowable" absences are any absences that don't fit into the above category, with a parent/guardian signature. Each student is allotted 16 "allowable" absences. "Excused" absences do not count against your total absences. That, essentially, allow each student to miss a total of 3 weeks out of the year without reason. This seems pretty fair to me. Any child that is missing more than 3 weeks because of illness, should, if they have a responsible parent, be under a Dr's care. Any child missing more than 3 weeks without illness should have some investigation into their home situation. Truly, my job wouldn't allow me 3 weeks worth of call-outs!

 

[Nicoleclaw]

The problem here is schools cannot make a policy that only pertains to some. This could end up being highly prejudicial. How is the school/teacher to decide whose absence is more "worthy?" One could argue that keeping an older child home to watch a baby so that the parent can go to work is more of a necessity than a vacation. After all, the parent needs to keep working to feed and shelter her children. ...and to be honest a WDW vacation is a luxury. I think there definitely needs to be attendance policies. There are parents out there who aren't involved, whose children miss school for trivial reasons, or simply because the parent can't be bothered. This is not to say that a sick child should be sent to school, but I do believe that every effort should be made to ensure that a child attends school on a regular basis. If there were no attendance policy, and/or the school did not enforce it's policies, it would be basically a free for all. There would be children who attended sporadically, and whose academic careers would suffer because of this. Classroom instruction time is important, for many reasons. I, for one, feel that teachers are more than "babysitters."

There needs to be a balance. I think the way our school district handles it is fair. We have "excused" absences and "allowable" absences. Excused absences are any illness with a Dr's note, college visits, and death in the family. "Allowable" absences are any absences that don't fit into the above category, with a parent/guardian signature. Each student is allotted 16 "allowable" absences. "Excused" absences do not count against your total absences. That, essentially, allow each student to miss a total of 3 weeks out of the year without reason. This seems pretty fair to me. Any child that is missing more than 3 weeks because of illness, should, if they have a responsible parent, be under a Dr's care. Any child missing more than 3 weeks without illness should have some investigation into their home situation. Truly, my job wouldn't allow me 3 weeks worth of call-outs!

That is EXACTLY what I was going to say. Some people feel their vacation should be allowed, but what about the parent who needs their older kid to watch a younger child so the parent can work? Or if an older child needs to help out with a family business?

 

[noahdove]

I have mixed theories on this. I worked in a school district for 20plus years and I did attendance for MOST of those years. Our school district set up attendance policies and I had to follow them. Granted the state ed. dept. set the boundaries and we had to carry them out. Vacations of any kind are not a legal excuse or approved absences. I understand full well about families needing to take their children out of school for certain things and that's ok by me, however, in the district where I worked, a lot of the parents did not and still do not consider education and importance.
This saddens me. Now with the No Child Left Behind law, it appears to me, more and more families take the children out whenever they feel like it, is this going to be a new trend?It appears that the parents just want to prove that they can and will take their children out, no matter what. I know it is very hard for children to catch up on the work they missed, homework sheets, study list etc are good, However, the student loses so much more when they are not in a classroom...this part of education is a must and that part cannot be caught up. Sorry, I had to add my 2cents worth, but I needed to air my feelings.

 

[taitai]

How much power should the schools have? As much power as is necessary to educate our children. Simple.

The Schools are not trying to parent our children...although many children do need someone to parent them. They are simply trying to educate. This costs money. Under NCLB, a large portion of each school district's money is tied to attendance. Plain and simple. If the kids don't show up, the district does not get funds. This is the case for every public school in the country. NCLB costs a great deal to administer, there is no "we aren't going to do it" option and the states due to their own fiscal constraints, don't have the money to help pay. Therefore, each and every federal dollar is NEEDED to help educate these kids. They can't risk losing money because of attendance issues. So, they have put into place strict policies.

Now, if you don't like these policies, there is a great deal you can do. Get involved. Advocate with your elected officials for a repeal or a modification of NCLB. Advocate with your elected officials a raise in property taxes or a special levy in order to supplement the school funds and relax the attendance rules. Enroll your children in private schools which don't have the NCLB constraints. Home school. However, if you opt to put your children in public schools, then play by the rules. Even if your child is doing well and won't be harmed by the decreases in funding due to their unexcused absences, other children will be. It all adds up. As a member of the school community which you are by definition of sending your kids to the school, you have a responsibility to do what is best for all...not just what is best for you. That is whole point of a community.

Just flagrantly disregarding the rules without working to change them is both lazy and selfish.

taitai

 

[badblackpug]

if you opt to put your children in public schools, then play by the rules. Even if your child is doing well and won't be harmed by the decreases in funding due to their unexcused absences, other children will be. It all adds up. As a member of the school community which you are by definition of sending your kids to the school, you have a responsibility to do what is best for all...not just what is best for you. taitai

You know? This is an excellent point. I think a lot of us agree that NCLB is a faulty system, but unfortunately, for now, it is what we have. I have always put it at the kids perspective. Such as, just because you don't like a rule doesn't mean you have the right to flaunt it, and you are not doing your children justice by teaching them to flaunt the rules. I, however, do like this point. No, it is not all about you, and sometimes your actions effect others. Definitely something to think about.

 

[jlw29]

It's a big deal here. If your kid has more than 5 absenses without dr. notes you get referred to the school social worker and they put you on "probation" for excessive absences or something like that. I've never done it but have heard about it.

Not only does our school require a doctor's note for my sick kid, they won't accept one from me (despite my MD) because I'm her parent! I was told take her to her family doctor or the ER. Umm... I AM THE ER DOCTOR!!!!! What do I do if I'm the one working when she's sick? Do my diagnostic skills go away? They accept notes signed by me for other kids all the time, and usually for stuff that I make my own kids go to school with! This policy explains why I see too many kids for minor stuff that doesn't need an ER.

 

[arjones31]

Most parents intend the best for their children; these are not the parents attendance rules are created for. Unfortunately, these same parents must abide by them. Yes, Disney can be educational (my gifted class went to Epcot on a trip after a months-long study project), but many students who are absent are not absent due to educational trips. As pps who are teachers have stated, I have too many students for whom I DO represent a parental figure. If I don't act in that capacity, not only am I not fulfilling my obligations to the state and district, but I truly feel that I would be neglecting my duty as a human. I became a teacher not just to relay information that helps students pass a test, but because I want to make a difference. I am so very grateful for parents who care about their children; thanks to all of you who believe that education is a two-way street. However, please don't forget that not all kids are as blessed as yours to have caring people who support them. The rules aren't made to infringe upon your rights as a parent, only to protect those who, in effect, don't have someone to make them go to school. Best wishes to all!

 

[arjones31]

An addendum, public school policies are set by the government. We, as teachers and as school systems, only have as much power as our elected officials give us. Contact your representatives and make your voice known! I think I am done now...

 

[emmababy]

I am a high school science teacher, and while i completely understand what you are saying sometimes schools do have to step in and protect students from there parent's stupidity. Not all parents are like those we encounter here. I have kids with absolutely no envolvement at home. Parents who could care less if the get to school, if they get dinner, or if they come home at night. It is these kind of parents that the rules are made for. I feel that it's my job as a teacher to safegard my student's best interests. If I feel like what a parent is doing is going to harm the student's academic progress I feel that I have to speak up about it. I think rules agianst vacations ect. Are the administration's attempt to safeguard kids agiant a parent's BAD decision. I ralize that a lot of people are going to disagree with me and say that it is the parent's right to do what they want with a child, but I really don't like that "It's my kid, and how dare you attempt to tell me how to raise them" mentality. Soemtimes I think that with those kind of parents it ceases to be about the kid at all and becomes all about control and resentment of athourity. It is like the children are property and are used to stick it to authority figures at any opportunity. I am not saying that you or anyone here is doing this, just that there are parents that do and those are the poeple who cause everyone else to be bound by so many rules.

Please don't take offense to this- but I am glad you are a science teacher and not an English teacher. Good lord, there are a TON of misspelled words in your post, almost too hard to read!

I personally don't know what our district policies are, my kids are still little. I do know that if I am taking care of my children and their needs, then I do feel that it is up to me on how I choose to parent them.

 

[taylor3297]

Please don't take offense to this- but I am glad you are a science teacher and not an English teacher. Good lord, there are a TON of misspelled words in your post, almost too hard to read!

I personally don't know what our district policies are, my kids are still little. I do know that if I am taking care of my children and their needs, then I do feel that it is up to me on how I choose to parent them.

I didn't write the above post but it could have been easily something I wrote. I am a horrible speller, but when I am writing things for my classes, parents, business letters etc, I am very careful about proof-reading, and making sure everything is correct. Now when I am typing for something like this, I am not as careful since so many people whose acronyms (sp?) for so many things or they use u for you, r for are etc. So give the science teacher a break. I was offended on the science teacher's behalf.

PS: I know there are many grammatical and punctuation mistakes in my post.

 

[Colleen27]

This saddens me. Now with the No Child Left Behind law, it appears to me, more and more families take the children out whenever they feel like it, is this going to be a new trend?It appears that the parents just want to prove that they can and will take their children out, no matter what.

I think it is quite the opposite. NCLB made something that parents have been doing for generations suddenly a major issue by tying funding to attendance. When I was a kid, my mom pull my brother & I out of school for several vacations and the response was always "This is what we'll be covering, here's your makeup work. Have fun!". The school I attended didn't even have an attendance policy at the elementary level. Now that same school strictly prohibits travel during the school year, even though their pre-NCLB attendance rates were consistanly high enough to pass muster. There's such fear of falling behind in some area and not making AYP that NCLB is driving irrational, punative, and ill-advised policies in many schools that were doing just fine before it was enacted.

 

[lizet313]

Wow I am speechless both parties make a lot of sense. I think the parents should judt keep an open relationship with the school. Some of the schools would understand the situation (which ever it may be) and give homework before trip or during trip make up work tests etc.

 

[princessmom29]

The ARROGANCE of this statement is appalling! What, exactly, gives any teacher/principal/administrator the right to even think they are somehow qualified to sit in judgment? I'm not talking about the kids who are black & blue all over, but just like any entity tasting power the schools have decided they know best and we parents are just supposed to take it. Reason 4,231 for homeschooling!

Well, I am talking about the kid that is black and bule all over, or the child who brings lice and bedbugs to school b/c mom is too busy smoking meth to bathe him. Or the child that comes to school hungry b/c there is no food at home and is so desperate for food he steals others lunches. How about the child whose mom made him walk 3 miles to school in the sleet without a coat b/c she was too lazy to get out of bed and drive him? Am I not saupoed to do something about this???? Am I arrogant b/c I care about kids whose parents so obviously don't. If someone doesn't have the "arrogance" to do something aobut it some of them are going to end up dead!!! Yes I do have to sometimes protect my students from thier parent's stupidity and I am better able to sleep at night when I do the right thing and speak up!

 

[twins2xs]

Wow. I must be really missing something here. My children go to an excellent school in NY and missing school for vacations is not an issue at the elementary level. I am not sure on the policies in the upper grades. I personally wouldn't take my children out only because the workload is very intense.

However, in elementary school, I don't see a problem. I just pulled my four children last week for five days. The principal was aware of our plans as I was in a meeting with her the day before we left. She said, "family time is just as important. Have a great trip". I am happy to report that we did just that

 

[princessmom29]

Please don't take offense to this- but I am glad you are a science teacher and not an English teacher. Good lord, there are a TON of misspelled words in your post, almost too hard to read!

I personally don't know what our district policies are, my kids are still little. I do know that if I am taking care of my children and their needs, then I do feel that it is up to me on how I choose to parent them.

Sorry. I have a form of dyslexia that makes it hard for me to spell correctly without a dictionary or spell check. I proof whatever I am putting on the board ahead of time whenever possible and my kids know the situation, so they just tell me and I fix it.

 

[tiggertabi]

I think that people don't realize just how much extra work it is for a teacher to have to plan/teach a lesson for a student who was absent. I mean, imagine you are working in a business and you do a presentation to your team. One of the team members doesn't show up for the meeting. You surely are not going to do that entire presentation to that team member one-on-one after work is over or during your lunch hour? But I have parents who email me and say "we're going on a vacation....can we get work?" Well i dont prepare work 2 weeks in advance because I'm not sure how far my class will get, so I can't necessarily give your child the work. Plus, what good will it do to give you worksheets on things they haven't learned yet?!

I'm all for students taking vacations during the school year if that's what your family wants to do. However, I think it's still an UNexcused absense and therefore work missed should not be able to be made up. And the student/parents will be responsible for learning the material, not the teacher who already has 26-30 other students to continue teaching.

 

[AmazingGraycie]

I understand why some people truly think it is better to not take your kids out of school, and I even understand the reasoning most schools have behind it, that being said........Back off, butt out, kiss my grits.......whichever they prefer. Schools have their reasons, true enough, but as a parent, I think I should have the right to choose what I think is best for my child. So long as the absences fall under the allowable number, BUTT OUT! Are some parents going to abuse this? OF COURSE THEY ARE, and they are going to continue to no matter what rules schools put in place.

We are talking about a vacation, not taking the kids to tag along at a crackhouse. (but Jesus, talk about life experience there )

Bottom line.....make what rules you must, I am still going to do what I feel is best for my family. Fight me, fine. No jury will convict me when they see the smiling ice cream stained faces and little heads adorned with Mickey Ears.

 

[MarkinNM]

Now I really want to see what you had to say.


I think many schools go way to far. I feel vacation time should be a family decision, not the schools. Also the families responsibility to catch the kids up when they return, not the teachers.

I also don't think the school should monitor activity outside of school. That would be the parents responsibility.

I hear you, ITS MY DUTY as a parent to do what I FEEL like with my kids, trust me as I know a lot a parents do silly things, but a vacation is a vacation!

A teacher here-

I don't care if you take your kids out of class for vacation. Really. Just make sure they get their work done, no excuses And as a parent, I totally would be ticked if I had to petition the school to go on vacation. The next time that happens, threaten to remove your kids from the school entirely and thus, ALL of your child's funding money.

Interesting point, but I really dont think the district could give 2 cents

The airport is educational. Making breakfast with the family is educational. How are they defining educational?