How much is the lack of AP sales affecting DVC?

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Given that, it's puzzling that VGF is still the lowest dues in all of DVC?

When there’s more points per room night it amortizes the cost across more points. In terms of dues per room night VGF is more in line with the other resorts.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

When there’s more points per room night it amortizes the cost across more points.

If that were the case, how come VGC doesn't have the cheapest dues?

 

[RivShore]

So you're telling me Disney metrics cannot account for the number of DVC members with annual passes versus locals with annual passes in their spending analysis? Really? These are the people that track everything you do in the park. They know everything about you including your date of birth. I'm just not buying it.

Yes, I think Disney's abilities in the IT and data areas are probably not that great. As evidence - have you tried to use their websites, seen the bugs that never get fixed, the never ending app issues, seen the millions of Disney IT complaints here?

 

[Sammie]

As a former out of state AP holder who pre-Covid was strongly considering DVC - the lack of new AP purchases was a deal breaker for us. Haven't considered it since.

Believe me if that is what changed your mind, you are better off not buying. You would not be happy. DVC members that truly buy just to get a room discount or always going to be happy with their purchase. Everyone that buys for a current perk are not.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Actually, they do not pay operational expenses on their point and in exchange for that, they guarantee to cover any shortfall from that the projected budget done in December.

So, if they decided to charge owners $6/pt for operations and actual expenses at the end of the year turn out to be $6.50/pt, they can’t ask owners to pay that additional amount.

They don’t have to agree to the guarantee each year, but they do..so chances are they make our pretty well.

If there is not a shortfall, then they are ripping off Members. 100% of the budget cannot be spread over 96% of the points.
That’s my point.

 

[SleeplessInTO]

APs are back! For now…

I’m going to miss these AP mega threads.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

There ya go! I think DVC was reading this thread! LOL!

 

[intamin]

RIP thread.

But also I’m so happy, I have 4 trips planned for this year and this will help so much <— happy crying

 

[jlab]

I’m salty that we just got back and would have absolutely upgraded to APs if we could have last week.

 

[tidefan]

Can we only buy the Sorcerer's Pass on the 13th or can we buy the Incredi-pass, or do we have to wait until the 20th for that?

 

[BroganMc]

DVD pays dues on the points they own.

Yes but the point is they don't have to pay all of the operating expenses of the resort because it is subsidized by members. That's why Disney wants to build DVCs and not hotels. It's a win-win for them. Not only do members pay for the construction, they also subsidize the upkeep every year for 50 years. Now do the math if Disney was to wholly own a hotel.

 

[kilik64]

Interesting wording, everyone got their wish on here sounds like. Says DVC sorcerer will be available to members more often then even florida residents only can buy it.

 

[zavandor]

No, undeclared is different because those rooms are not part of the condo association until they have been declared. . I was talking about points DVD owns once they have been declared.

So, right now, 66.2% of RIV has been declared, so DVC is responsible for that %. If only 51% is sold, then DVD still owns points…right now, it’s those points.

As I said, it’s operational costa…and once a resort is sold out, it is typically 2% to 4% of the resort, if you consider what they have to keep by law, and maybe via ROFR ans foreclosure.

Here is the POS language as an example….it is updated and part of the yearly budget documents that every owner gets in December:

View attachment 751427

I cannot wrap my head around how this works in practice.
Let's make an extreme example. DVC ROFRs half of BWV with no intention of selling the points, but to resell the rooms as cash inventory (because the convention business is booming and they need rooms, or whatever).
What does this mean? That they can budget so all the expenses are paid by members owning the remaining 50% and they can rent for cash at pure profit? I don't think it could work like this.

What I think it happens is that DVCMC does the budget and splits it by all the points existing at the resorts. Members pay their dues, but there is no money being transfered between DVC and DVCMC at the beginning of the year. They don't pay dues like we do. But then, at the end of the year they pay any shortcoming which does exist because the dues cover only the points owned by members.

Or, another possibility is that it means that DVCMC doesn't pay points on the 2% they are legally required to keep for maintenance. Which is fair, since it's the percentage that on average rooms are out of commission.
But if they own points because undeclared or ROFRed, they pay MF on those (whenever).

Otherwise it would be too big of a loophole to exploit.

 

[Brian Noble]

If that were the case, how come VGC doesn't have the cheapest dues?

Because Southern California and Central Florida are vastly different labor markets?

 

[Brian Noble]

In other news, we are about to watch a "natural experiment." My prediction: there will be a small, but unsustained, bump in DVC sales relative to the months earlier this year, seasonally-adjusted.

(In other words, my money is still on James Carville.)

 

[Sandisw]

I cannot wrap my head around how this works in practice.
Let's make an extreme example. DVC ROFRs half of BWV with no intention of selling the points, but to resell the rooms as cash inventory (because the convention business is booming and they need rooms, or whatever).
What does this mean? That they can budget so all the expenses are paid by members owning the remaining 50% and they can rent for cash at pure profit? I don't think it could work like this.

What I think it happens is that DVCMC does the budget and splits it by all the points existing at the resorts. Members pay their dues, but there is no money being transfered between DVC and DVCMC at the beginning of the year. They don't pay dues like we do. But then, at the end of the year they pay any shortcoming which does exist because the dues cover only the points owned by members.

Or, another possibility is that it means that DVCMC doesn't pay points on the 2% they are legally required to keep for maintenance. Which is fair, since it's the percentage that on average rooms are out of commission.
But if they own points because undeclared or ROFRed, they pay MF on those (whenever).

Otherwise it would be too big of a loophole to exploit.

I think they have to budget appropriately for operation of the whole resort based on declared inventory…they can not pretend their points don’t exist…and then set the rate based on that.

But, once set, they can’t come back to owners for more…. but don’t actually pay for their points, and at year end, if expenses were more, then what was collected by owners, they pay the difference.

So, the extra they get for renting rooms they own, from trades and breakage, can all go to cover if what was budgeted if there is a shortfall,

As I said, undeclared are not part of …those operational expenses are of course paid directly by Disney because they are like hotel rooms…

But, once declared, they don’t actually pay the dues…and yes, ROFRd points would count….but, as I said, in order to guarantee the rate to owners, they agree to cover the shortfall, if there is one.

They do not need to offer this guarantee to owners, but is allowed under FL timeshare law, which does help make sure that the estimate is close to correct…because any overages then go into capital reserves…expect when they gave them back to owners during the closure..

 

[RoseGold]

In other news, we are about to watch a "natural experiment." My prediction: there will be a small, but unsustained, bump in DVC sales relative to the months earlier this year, seasonally-adjusted.

(In other words, my money is still on James Carville.)

I think people might take contracts off the market as well. This was a major issue for some, maybe even the reason they were selling.

 

[Sandisw]

We can continue AP discussion here.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/annual-passes-are-back.3915424/