How many total points at each resort and what % does DVD own?

[DVC Mike]

A quick and dirty way to calculate the total number of points that exists at each DVC resort can be calculated by looking at the Condominium statements that were just made available. Now, since there is limited precision to the dues, there will be a margin of error, but I would think it would most likely be less than 1,000 points.

Since they also publish the number of points that DVD retains ("2 to 4%"), you can see what the actual percentage was as of 12/31/2014.

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/Points/TotalPointsPerRsort.png
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http://i235.************************************************************* DVC Mike - *******.com

 

[DVC Mike]

I wonder how close these numbers are to those that @wdrl maintains based on the filing of deeds?

 

[wdrl]

Mike,

How did you calculate the total points for each resort? If the retained amount represents 2% of the total, then 50 times that amount should represent 100% of the resorts' points. For BLT, if the retained amount is 114,731 points, then BLT's total points sold be 5,736,550.

For years, I've used a manually calculated amount for each resort based on deeds filed for each Residential Unit for every DVC resort, save VGC. For example, I have been using 5,733,530 as BLT’s total points, a difference of 3,020 points (0.0526%) compared to the 2% x 50 formula. I computed this amount by looking at deeds from each of BLT’s 223 Residential Units and dividing the number of points sold on a deed by the percentage of real estate interest represented by those points. I always end up with a fractional remainder, so I round the quotient to a whole number. In the case of AKV, DVD retains 148,094 points, so AKV must have a total of 7,404,700 points. I had manually calculated AKV as having 7,400,270 points, so I am off by 4,430 points (0.0598%).

BTW, Aulani has 11,519,025 total points. Its total points are hard coded in the Aulani Master Declaration.

 

[DVC Mike]

My calculations are simple, if not simplistic. I take the annual budget and divide it by the amount per point. So, using BLT as an example:

$19,248,321 divided by 3.3576 = 5,732,761.794 points

That's how I came up with 5,732,762 points for BLT. Now, since the dues only go out to 4 digits, the points could be between 5,732,932 and 5,732,591.

I took the number of points retained by DVD and determined what percentage it was of my calculated points. Again, using BLT as an example:

114,731 / 5,732,761.794 = 2.0013%

That's darn close to the claim that DVD retains 2% of DVD.

Is there something I'm missing that would render my attempted calculation invalid?

 

[wdrl]

@dvcmike: There is nothing I can think of that would make your calculation invalid. Yet, I think the simplest, most direct way to calculate a resort's total points is take the 2% retained amount and convert to 100% by multiplying it by 50.

Using the total point amount derived by the budget method, BLT ends up with 5,732,761.794 points. 2% of that amount is 114,655.236 points.

It DVD had to retain only 114,655 or 114,656 points rather than 114,731, I think it would do so. There is no reason for it to say it has to retain more points than it has to.

I can't decide if I want to go back and revise all of my Unit point allotments for all the resorts. BLT would be the simplest and most straightforward to revise. Although it has 223 residential Units, it only has three different Unit configurations. I could easily adjust the three types to account for the difference in total points. AKV, on the other hand, would be a bit of a challenge because there are eight different configurations.

 

[DVC Mike]

@dvcmike: There is nothing I can think of that would make your calculation invalid. Yet, I think the simplest, most direct way to calculate a resort's total points is take the 2% retained amount and convert to 100% by multiplying it by 50.

Thanks for your thoughts. However, do we really know that DVC retains exactly 2% (4% for HHI)? I guess that could be a valid assumption. I just don't know if its better or worse than my assumptions surrounding my calculations that came up with post #1.

In any event, to me they are both close enough. As long as I know that there are 5.7M points at BLT and 7.4M at AKV, that's all that matters to most people.

 

[com_op_2000]

To get the total number of points for a resort, wouldn't you have to:
By category
take the points required for each night
X the number of nights for all nights within each category
X 50 (the number of UYs)
Then add each of those "by category" results together to get a total?
You would then need to calculate for Feb 29th for 50 / 4 and then add that to get the grand total.

 

[drusba]

I believe what DVC MIke has done probably gives a fairly good estimate of total points. It uses the simple concept that the total annual budget divided by the dues per point gives you something close to total points. I do not know where the points held by DVD and unsold points figures come from but I assume there is a valid source. However, what I am not sure of is whether the points held by DVD factor into the operations budget. My impression is that the operations budget we are provided is that chargeable to members points and not to DVD's points. Annually, DVD chooses the option allowed under state law to pay no annual dues budgeted for operations while it guarantees that there will be no special assessments, and thus the operations budget is payable only by members and their points. If actual costs for the year exceed amounts collected. DVD has to pay any excess costs. Also, I recall that budgets for new resorts started with total dollar amounts for a year that were fairly small and then increased a lot annually until the resort sold out, reflecting that DVD was putting in the budget only the porportion of operational costs that equalled the porportion of the resort that had been sold. Perhaps a way to test what DVD is actually including in the operations budget is to do the total point calculation just using the capital reserve budget divided by its amount per point because DVD does have to pay dues for that portion of the budget (same for property taxes).

As to what ownership interest DVD actually retains percentage wise, the official documents for the resort usually say that DVD retains at least 2% but could retian up to 4%.

 

[wdrl]

Thanks for your thoughts. However, do we really know that DVC retains exactly 2% (4% for HHI)? I guess that could be a valid assumption. I just don't know if its better or worse than my assumptions surrounding my calculations that came up with post #1

In any event, to me they are both close enough. As long as I know that there are 5.7M points at BLT and 7.4M at AKV, that's all that matters to most people.

In the context of this discussion, I believe there is a difference between the terms "retained" and "owned." By rule, DVD must retain at least 2% of a resort's total points. This is one of the hard, unequivocal rules in the condo master declaration. When DVD reports in the BLT budget notice that it retained ownership interests to the equivalent of 114,731 points, I believe it is reporting the specific amount of points it must retain to satisfy the 2% requirement. DVD then goes on to say in the budget notice that it had an unsold ownership interest in an additional 14,538 points. This additional amount is discretionary, meaning that DVD could sell all of the additional points to the general public if it so desired.

On any given day, the total number of points actually owned by DVD can vary depending upon the number of points sold and the number of points reacquired. However, at no time can DVD's ownership in BLT drop below the 114,731 point level, which represents the minimum retention level required by the master declaration.

To get the total number of points for a resort, wouldn't you have to:
By category
take the points required for each night
X the number of nights for all nights within each category
X 50 (the number of UYs)
Then add each of those "by category" results together to get a total?
You would then need to calculate for Feb 29th for 50 / 4 and then add that to get the grand total.

I'm not sure I follow your calculations, but I don't think its the point chart that drives the total points for a resort, but the total points of a resort that drives the point chart.

Remember, the points at a resort are merely a symbolic representation of the real estate interest each owner has in a specific residential Unit. For each resort, DVD establishes a formula that converts the real estate interest to points. To date, once the real estate interest-to-points ratio is established by DVD for a resort, it applies to all Residential Units at a resort. This real estate interest-to-points ratio does not take into account any of the factors you see on the points chart: The number of Seasons, the number of days in each Season, the number and type of View Categories, and, believe it or not, even the type of accommodation is not material in arriving at the real estate interest-to-points ratio.

Granted, once you have a point chart for a resort, you can work backwards to estimate the number of total points at a resort. But you won't be able to exactly replicate the total points for a resort using that method. Back in 2010, I compared the point charts for 2010 to the point charts for 2011 for several resorts. At the time I was trying to see if the 2011 point reallocation was "point neutral." In the case of BWV, I discovered the 2010 point chart generated a total of 4,898,492 points; the 2011 point chart generated a total of 4,892,022 points. The difference was 6,470 points, or 0.1321%. I mention this prior exercise merely to show the vagaries of trying to work backwards from the point chart to determine a resort's total points.

 

[DVC Mike]

Perhaps a way to test what DVD is actually including in the operations budget is to do the total point calculation just using the capital reserve budget divided by its amount per point because DVD does have to pay dues for that portion of the budget (same for property taxes).

You get a very similar number. In the case of BLT, a difference of just a few hundred points:

http://i235.*************************************Misc/BLTpoints.png

 

[drusba]

Then we should be good with the estimate subject to your stated margin of error. I always knew SSR was large but I did not realize before that it was almost a quarter of all points even when you add in the number for Aulani. And what I now picture in my mind with one of my home resorts, BWV, is 4.8 million points chasing standard and Boardwalk view studios (and 2BRs) online at 8 a.m., January 1, for an arrival date of December 1, and I can't get the computer to work due to an awful hangover.

 

[com_op_2000]

I'm not sure I follow your calculations, but I don't think its the point chart that drives the total points for a resort, but the total points of a resort that drives the point chart.

There are only so many points that can be used in one year, if every room is filled ever night of the year, that is the maximum number of points times the number of years a resort within the covenants that can be sold. DVC can only sale enough points for every owner to be able to use their points at their HR each year, unless DVC is counting on people trading out of DVC (for RCI, DCL, etc) each year.