How many generations before the hyphen disappears?

I kinda sorta agree with what Master Mason said, but I don't really like the way he phrased it.

We're getting such mixed messages. On one hand, we're being encouraged to celebrate diversity and to embrace everyone's cultural roots, but then on another hand, we're also supposed to be color blind. How can we do both?
 
I think it is simply an easier way of saying "I am an American of German (or whatever) decent." And there is no denying that there are still some specific cultural traditions that vary depending upon your families roots, some may be stereotypical, some may simply be a cultural celebration.

For instance, they celebrate Wurstfest in New braunfels, TX. A town of German heritage. Here in Seguin, they have Freedom Fiesta, as our town has a large Hispanic population. In the older, more historic cities of the US these cultural difference are very pronounced...many 3rd and 4th generation Americans still speak German in New Braunfels, the same is true that many speak Spanish here in Seguin. The older building styles also reflect this heritage, even the Newspaper in New Braunfels is called the Zeitung, the waterpark is called the Schiltterbahn, etc.
 
need_a_Disney_fix said:
Yes, I will have at it and I am very proud to say that I am AMERICAN. Why do you have issues with me doing that? Why do you think I am wrong?

Hey! Cool! We agree! I think you should call yourself anything you want!

What I have a "issues" with, as you put it, why I think you're wrong, is that you're telling other people what they should do. Why do you insist others do what you want them to do? Do what you want, let others do what they want, stop telling them to "get over it". Live and let live.
 

My only issue with it is that it sometimes seems to be more about "color" and less about ethnicity. For example, an acquaintance of mine, who is white, was born *in* Morocco to her Moroccan-born father and American-born mother. She IS African-American if we're looking truly at heritage and ethnicity. Yet, she's been told viciously by several of her classmates that she cannot claim to be African-American because she's not of color. So, truly, what are labels about and what benefit do they provide is the question for me.
 
Master Mason said:
Here will be my one and only comment here...

People claim they want equal treatement, that everyone should be treated exactly the same, because it doesn't matter if your white, brown, black, jewish, catholic, gay, straight, and the list goes on......

But then they place those very lables on themselves, therefore calling attention to those differences...

Why not just be people and leave the lables at home....
:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2
 
I think the confusion has to do with ethnicity vs. nationality.
Ethnicity wise, I'm a German-American.
Nationality wise, I'm an American.
If someone from the US asked me my ethnicity, I can answer that I'm German-American.
If someone from another country asked my nationality, legally I can only answer that I'm American as I don't have dual citizenship.
 
Master Mason said:
Here will be my one and only comment here...

People claim they want equal treatement, that everyone should be treated exactly the same, because it doesn't matter if your white, brown, black, jewish, catholic, gay, straight, and the list goes on......

But then they place those very lables on themselves, therefore calling attention to those differences...

Why not just be people and leave the lables at home....


I would venture to say that ethnic labels are more important in the minority groups of this country than the majority. "Caucasion" is a more acceptable way of saying white, African American is a more acceptable way of saying black. If we didn't claim African American as our title, people, and the media would make up their own names to describe us and we know where that goes...

For many African Americans, that title doesn't really describe our ethnicity, but it describes the ethnicity we identify with. I have no idea where my ancestors are from, they could be from the islands, from Africa, Native Americas, Europe...or most likely they are from all the above. I just use the name African American b/c I don't want you calling me anything else.

We should be able exist peacefully with labels that describe obvious physical differences between people without having unequal treatment of those people go hand in hand. It's not a choice between one or the other.
 
Master Mason said:
Here will be my one and only comment here...

People claim they want equal treatement, that everyone should be treated exactly the same, because it doesn't matter if your white, brown, black, jewish, catholic, gay, straight, and the list goes on......

But then they place those very lables on themselves, therefore calling attention to those differences...

Why not just be people and leave the lables at home....

Let's be honest here, those so-called "labels" aren't going to go away. We are all different and to pretend otherwise is pointless. They are who we are and where we come from. Equality is a noble idea, but we all know that's a bunch of lip service. We are not all equal and are not treated equally. Forget the politically correct labels, just think of a man and a woman and all the instances where we are not treated equally. To me, it's all about respect.

Everyone wants to be validated, just respect it and move on. Then again, the other option is to continue to fret over other people's lives and choices. That's certainly more productive! ;) ;) :rolleyes:
 
American culture and heritage has such a short life compared to Italy, France, Africa, .....we have a few hundred years (aside from Native Americans) while these other places have such deep-rooted cultures that go back thousands of years. There is a certain pride in being a part of a culture that has traditions that go back so very far- it's part of who we are and who our ancestors are. We have Polish festivals, Irish festivals, Greek festivals- right here in America. The beauty and longevity of these cultures makes American "culture" seem silly.
 
MickeyMouseGal said:
I think the confusion has to do with ethnicity vs. nationality.
Ethnicity wise, I'm a German-American.
Nationality wise, I'm an American.
If someone from the US asked me my ethnicity, I can answer that I'm German-American.
If someone from another country asked my nationality, legally I can only answer that I'm American as I don't have dual citizenship.


WHOA!! THAT'S GOOD....REAL GOOD! :thumbsup2
 
JoyG said:
I would venture to say that ethnic labels are more important in the minority groups of this country than the majority. "Caucasion" is a more acceptable way of saying white, African American is a more acceptable way of saying black. If we didn't claim African American as our title, people, and the media would make up their own names to describe us and we know where that goes...

For many African Americans, that title doesn't really describe our ethnicity, but it describes the ethnicity we identify with. I have no idea where my descendants are from, they could be from the islands, from Africa, Native Americas, Europe...or most likely they are from all the above. I just use the name African American b/c I don't want you calling me anything else.

We should be able exist peacefully with labels that describe obvious physical differences between people without having unequal treatment of those people go hand in hand. It's not a choice between one or the other.

ITA!! And, I applaud you for being so honest, in a discussion that is often "danced" around. I think it is mainly caucasian Americans that take issue with the African American label (and, before we go any futher, I am caucasian). I think the real problem here (correct me if I am wrong), is that all words used to describe African Americans previously were "put" upon a race of people. These words...some nicer than others, have all come to have certain "negative" implications.

The truth of the matter is this...Africa is not a country, but a continent. So, when people in this country make comparisons to Irish-American, or otherwise...they are, in essence comparing apples to oranges. The true comparison would be "European American"...something to which NO one identifies (at least, not yet). Ironically, this is the complaint I hear most often from detractors of the use of "African-American".

But, here's what they are missing....I believe most people who use this terminology would dearly LOVE to know their ancestry. I am sure they would love to say, "My family is from Sierra-Leone"....or Guinea, or any one of a hundred African countries. The problem is...except in rare cases....they do not know their heritage.

I am proud of my heritage...I am French, Irish and English. Knowing this, I have studied these countries and their languages. I have researched my family crests, and have made a personal goal to visit the towns of my ancestors. Most people who choose to be called African-American will never have that luxury. The fact that they can only identify themselves with a continent, rather than a specific country, tribe or clan, IMO means that we need to cut them a great deal of slack!!!

I have a friend who is adopted. She has spent MANY years trying to find her "real" parents. Her adopted parents are amazing, but she still felt a need to find out where she came from. She is lucky...she now knows. Imagine if you had little or no hope of knowing where you came from? Now, imagine if that were due to a turbulent event in our country's history? Isn't this one of the root causes of the trouble in Israel? Two different tribes of people are desperately fighting for a "home". A group of people who feel they have no true homeland can be a very sad group of people.

And yes, the descendants of those who were brought over as slaves have been accepted into the fabric of America. But, I am not sure how I would feel when others celebrate the holidays centered around the birthdays and events of people who stated "Every man created equal"...when my equality was specifically excluded from that statement. As a woman, I would like to see a holiday for the Nineteenth Amendment. I'm sure many would like to see the Black Suffrage dates commemorated as well. If we are a country about freedoms, shouldn't we celebrate the freedoms of all of our citizens?

I think those of us who have the luxury of being able to take for granted all the benefits that come with knowing your heritage, should feel grateful, and not mock the choices of those who have no such luxury. Being American is a great thing, but even children who are adopted into the best homes still want to find out who their real parents were.

Those of us who know where we came from do not have the need to identify quite as much. Joy, I think the white perspective is this. To place a continent's name before the name America seems to many to be belittling our country. Those who are so offended by this need to realize that identification of heritage is not a monogamous relationship in a country that is, in essence, a patchwork quilt. It is okay to identify, and to state both...it really is doing no harm.

And, I truly believe it is those who can least identify their ancestry, are claiming something that they otherwise would not have. Instead of looking at them and becoming angry, maybe people ought to look inside themselves and feel blessed.

Joy...I think you used "descendants" when you really meant "ancestors". I TRULY imagine you actually know where your "descendants" came from!! :rotfl2:
 
MickeyMouseGal said:
I think the confusion has to do with ethnicity vs. nationality.
Ethnicity wise, I'm a German-American.
Nationality wise, I'm an American.
If someone from the US asked me my ethnicity, I can answer that I'm German-American.
If someone from another country asked my nationality, legally I can only answer that I'm American as I don't have dual citizenship.

Being from Germany isn't a form of enthnicity. That's your nationality. You could be Asian and have been born in Germany. Your ethnicity then would be Asian. Your nationality is still German.

America is a nation, if your were born in America, you're an American citizen.

I guess what I'm saying is I believe at some point in time you are a full fledged American.
 
zagafi said:
My only issue with it is that it sometimes seems to be more about "color" and less about ethnicity. For example, an acquaintance of mine, who is white, was born *in* Morocco to her Moroccan-born father and American-born mother. She IS African-American if we're looking truly at heritage and ethnicity. Yet, she's been told viciously by several of her classmates that she cannot claim to be African-American because she's not of color. So, truly, what are labels about and what benefit do they provide is the question for me.
I've noticed that myself. I have a friend who was born in South America then moved to and became and American. Totally fair, blond hair, blue eyes... she really had nearly white skin. She was African-American, but had heard flack for that. How could a white gal be African-American.

I say do what floats your boat, but in reality I just do not "get it" when it comes to wanting to do that. It's just something I never thought to do. I was born here, raised here and always lived here. I am American. I don't even always like it here, but I can't ever see myself as anything but. Even if I move to another country I will always be American.

Yes, it is nice to show heritage, but I've seen these blasted hyphens divide more than celebrate.

My dad's side is so German that if you aren't "one of them" you are outcasted. I know this from personal family experience.

My husband's parents moved to the US just before he was born. He never has used the term "Puerto Rican-American" ever. He honestly thinks that is totally ridiculous. It doesn't stop him from celebrating any part of his heritage though. In truth, his parents were very quick to tell him he is NOT Puerto Rican... he is American. For them to say that, it is a nationality thing, not an ethnicity thing. I sort of think along those lines.

I guess I simply don't understand it. More power to you if you like it, but just understand for some it does feel like more of a divide than a celebration.

And no, I'm not jealous. This American is very proud to say her ancestry is a mix of most all Western European countries. I'm actually proud to know I'm a "mutt" since it does show that some people in my past were able to get over certain boundaries that even my dad's side cannot conquer. To *me* that is pride :)
 
JoeEpcotRocks said:
Most of us are Mutt-Americans. ;)
I totally agree. I have such a mix in me it would be stupid to claim a name. I'm just an American.

MushyMushy said:
I kinda sorta agree with what Master Mason said, but I don't really like the way he phrased it.

We're getting such mixed messages. On one hand, we're being encouraged to celebrate diversity and to embrace everyone's cultural roots, but then on another hand, we're also supposed to be color blind. How can we do both?

Great post!! :thumbsup2
 
gina2000 said:
The key is to celebrate, not denigrate.

I agree in theory, but that's not the way it works.

My DH hires quite a few people. He is often told in no uncertain terms that he MUST hire a minority. Okay, so he wants to hire a Chinese woman because she's the best fit for the job. She's not enough of a minority for HR, so he's told that he HAS to find an African American for the job. And where we live, that's not happening.

Or how about the young blonde kindergarten teacher who tried to read Kinky Hair to her kids and it started a firestorm of controversy that practically ruined this young woman's life?

That's not celebrating diversity.

It's things like that I'm talking about.
 
MushyMushy said:
I kinda sorta agree with what Master Mason said, but I don't really like the way he phrased it.

We're getting such mixed messages. On one hand, we're being encouraged to celebrate diversity and to embrace everyone's cultural roots, but then on another hand, we're also supposed to be color blind. How can we do both?

Yes. If you embrace humanity. If you have a mind that is open to everything.
 
Thing is, everyone living in America who emigrated (or whose ancestors emigrated) from Europe are a mix.

Simply because, everyone in Europe is mixed!

If any of your ancestors came from Britain, then you've probably got at least some (if not all) of the following in you:
- Italian
- French
- Pure Briton / Celtic
- Norwegian

Also, what about those who really dohave dual nationality?
I could honestly see my BF and I applying for American citizenship in the future because he would love to live over there for a while, but we would still be British as well. Same for Americans who get British citizenship - should they just denounce their Americanism? (is that even a word?!)

FTR, I've never heard anyone describe themselves as 'Indian-British', or anything like that. It seems to be more that you either consider yourself primarily British (in which case, you'd call yourself British) or primarily Indian (for example). And that goes as well for people who are Welsh/English or Scottish/English, etc. - they tend to identify more with one than the other.

But the UK is such a mix anyway..
 
Charade said:
Why did you put American last? When are we an American first?

American is the noun.
Think of the first part as the adjective describing the noun American. That's actually what it is. Got a problem with adjectives or just hyphens? I think you don't like the adjective. So we should never say "blue sky" or "green grass of home" or how about "Kentucky Blue Grass?" No descriptors, eh?

Anyway, you get to choose if you want to include your heritage or cultural descriptor (ie. German) with your nationality or not. We are the lucky Americans. Whoops, you probably don't like that 'lucky' there. How about "ugly Americans?" There's a lot of THAT going around too! :) I'd rather focus on getting rid of THAT adjective than the heritage ones, whadaya think? :wave:
 


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