How many generations before the hyphen disappears?

[deekaypee]

How about an alternative? It's fairly common for words to lose their hyphenation when they become more common. For instance email and online were once e-mail and on-line. Wall paper was once wall-paper, goodbye was once good-bye, and breakfast once break-fast.

Rather than dropping such descriptors--whether identification tags associated with points-of-origin, heritage, ancestry or nationality--why not have these words become single, compound words?

Of course, this thread is less about the English language than about how one identifies oneself in terms of national and global citizenship. For those who aren't aware of it, the whole debate of hyphenated Americans has a long, sometimes contentious history. (A summary is available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphenated_American. I, for one, follow the practice of not hyphenating: African American rather than African-American, which I believe gives equal weight to African and American rather than subordinates the African to the American. Such an interpretation about the meaning of the hyphen is open to debates, of course, and such debates are useful for us to engage in thoughtfully as citizens and public intellectuals. I will note, though, the support for a melting-pot idea--which is related to the belief in the need for a singular, nationalist identity and is related to the emergence of an American Adam--takes on a great deal of connotative significance when talking about people who might also be characterized using descriptors such as first generation, immigrant, and members of non-dominant culture.

 

[palmtreegirl]

I don't know and I really don't care what people call themselves.

 

[minkydog]

Most of us are Mutt-Americans.

Now somebody has their thinking cap on.

Cathy--English-Welsh-Irish-Navajo-Southern-American

 

[need_a_Disney_fix]

I don't give a crap where anyone came from. When and if you are an official American citizen...you are AMERICAN...period. Drop the hyphen and get over it. You can celebrate your ancestry, but call yourself an AMERICAN. Flame-proof on and get over it.

 

[Robinrs]

HI, Ron!!! Love ya mean it!!!

Ya know, I had no idea this has been discussed before. I hate these kind of debates, no one ever wins or loses. Each one has a RIGHT to their own opinion and the questions are being discussed, legitimately.

On the other hand...

Yes, when we go to other countries we are considered just "Americans"... let's break that down.

When I'm in Georgia, I'm considered an Atlantan.

In Atlanta, I'm considered a Yankee, or a NY transplant.

When I'm in NY, I'm considered a Brooklynite.

When I'm in Brooklyn I'm considered person from Crown Heights...

And so on and so on and so on.

People subdivide and categorize. What YOU decide you are or want to be called is PERSONAL. What others call or consider you is their choice. If it bothers you, then it's your problem. You are what you consider yourself.

What did Tiger Woods call himself, a cablinasian or something like that? I'm sure some people have another word for him, just as I'm sure you have other terms for me ....

I could care less.

BTW, I probably would NOT be an American if some people LEFT my forefathers where they were.

 

[MAKmom]

No one is trying to take your heritage away from you. I guess I'm just bothered (rightfully so IMO) by it. We are referred to around the world as Americans (sometimes with other (not so nice) descriptors attached). But we can't even call ourselves that. I fully understand that we are a melting pot of different races, creeds and ethnic backgrounds. I just think that when we refer to ourselves we say American.

It's funny that there some combinations I never hear like Catholic-American but I hear Jewish-American. I don't hear Brazilian-American but I hear Mexican-American. And so on...

Why can't Americans stand proud and be *just* Americans?

I Think when we say I'm Irish-American we are talking to other AMERICANS. Who know we are American. We are sharing our personal history.

When we travel abroad we are AMERICANS if speaking to a person from a different nation & identifying ourselves in conversation.

This is common sense & common Knowledge right?

 

[Robinrs]

I don't give a crap where anyone came from. When and if you are an official American citizen...you are AMERICAN...period. Drop the hyphen and get over it. You can celebrate your ancestry, but call yourself an AMERICAN. Flame-proof on and get over it.

I agree with one thing, take your advice and GET OVER IT. PERIOD. Why the HECK do you care? This amazes me, truly....

 

[MAKmom]

I agree with one thing, take your advice and GET OVER IT. PERIOD. Why the HECK do you care? This amazes me, truly....

This is really funny. Maybe they do not know where they came from & they feel left out?

 

[teacherforhi]

I Think when we say I'm Irish-American we are talking to other AMERICANS. Who know we are American. We are sharing our personal history.

When we travel abroad we are AMERICANS if speaking to a person from a different nation & identifying ourselves in conversation.

This is common sense & common Knowledge right?

Why does the fact that you're descended from people from Ireland relevant to the conversation? If they know you're American, do you feel the need to correct them..."No, I'm Irish-American..."?

Unless I'm in a conversation directly related to heritage, it's never even occurred to me drop it in. Of course, in these politically correct times, I wouldn't know how to refer to myself anyway....Native American? Native Peoples? I can't keep track of it.

 

[ILUVMYBRIT]

Most of us are Mutt-Americans.

That is how I think of us all.
My fiancee is 100% English and I can't tell you how many times we have discussed this. Every time I refer to being Irish, English, German...he says, for goodness sake...you are American. Then I always say yeah...but I am not a pureblood...just a mutt.

 

[paigevz]

I Think when we say I'm Irish-American we are talking to other AMERICANS. Who know we are American. We are sharing our personal history.

When we travel abroad we are AMERICANS if speaking to a person from a different nation & identifying ourselves in conversation.

This is common sense & common Knowledge right?

Just what I was going to say, except that I think most people would only say Irish-American if ancestry/heritage/culture was brought up.

 

[need_a_Disney_fix]

This is really funny. Maybe they do not know where they came from & they feel left out?

No, I do not feel left out. I am mostly German with a little English. That does not make me a German-English American. I am an AMERICAN. Thank you very much. No more snide comments, please.

 

[Saffron]

"Get over it."



Why do you care what other people do or say when it has nothing to do with you? Do you think it makes anyone more Amercian to say they are *just* American? If you want to be *just* American, period, have at it!

Hey Micca!

deekaypee - I don't think the OP meant just the hyphen per say, but rather any descriptors that surround the word "American". I don't think a combination of words like African American would be acceptable to the OP either, but I could be wrong, maybe he could clarify. If so, then the thread is over as far as I'm concerned. I have no arguments with that at all.

 

[need_a_Disney_fix]

"Get over it."



Why do you care what other people do or say when it has nothing to do with you? Do you think it makes anyone more Amercian to say they are *just* American? If you want to be *just* American, period, have at it!

Hey Micca!

deekaypee - I don't think the OP meant just the hyphen per say, but rather any descriptors that surround the word "American". I don't think a combination of words like African American would be acceptable to the OP either, but I could be wrong, maybe he could clarify. If so, then the thread is over as far as I'm concerned. I have no arguments with that at all.

Yes, I will have at it and I am very proud to say that I am AMERICAN. Why do you have issues with me doing that? Why do you think I am wrong?

 

[Master Mason]

Here will be my one and only comment here...

People claim they want equal treatement, that everyone should be treated exactly the same, because it doesn't matter if your white, brown, black, jewish, catholic, gay, straight, and the list goes on......

But then they place those very lables on themselves, therefore calling attention to those differences...

Why not just be people and leave the lables at home....

 

[need_a_Disney_fix]

Here will be my one and only comment here...

People claim they want equal treatement, that everyone should be treated exactly the same, because it doesn't matter if your white, brown, black, jewish, catholic, gay, straight, and the list goes on......

But then they place those very lables on themselves, therefore calling attention to those differences...

Why not just be people and leave the lables at home....

Thank you.

 

[paigevz]

Here will be my one and only comment here...

People claim they want equal treatement, that everyone should be treated exactly the same, because it doesn't matter if your white, brown, black, jewish, catholic, gay, straight, and the list goes on......

But then they place those very lables on themselves, therefore calling attention to those differences...

Why not just be people and leave the lables at home....

Because it helped make them the people they are in many cases. Because it helps others understand who they are in many cases. Just because someone wants others to understand what shaped them and what some of their ideas/choices/celebrations/foods/dances/traditions/whatevers may be, does not mean they want unequal treatment.

Sure, they could say I'm a person. Then as time goes on continue to offer how they feel and think about things as they come up, and you may prefer to do just that. Others identify strongly with the cultures and traditions of their heritage and feel they are telling you a lot about themselves when they tell you of their culture or heritage. It's just a preference of descriptors. Still doesn't mean they are asking for unequal treatment.

Not picking on you, just offering a point of view.............

 

[gina2000]

Oh, shoot, I'm really screwed up. When another American asks me what I am, I say I'm Italian. I'm a 3rd generation American of 100% Italian descent. Maybe that's why I say I'm Italian. I don't have anything else in me so it's easy. Our son is the same. Perhaps if he marries someone who is not of Italian descent, his children won't delineate and just think of themselves as mutt 'mericans.

I think the closer you are to a purebred heritage, the more likely you are to label yourself as that heritage as a subset of "American". After labelling myself as being from the USA, I'm from Joisey, and then specifically a town and a neighborhood (much like Robin indicated).

We always speak in terms of kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus and species. Delineating heritage as a subset of being American is just the normal order of things.

And for you guys that are Americans first, last, and only....that's great. But for many of us, we identify and classify. As long as it's not used to denigrate, classifying is one way of placing oneself into a subset closest identifying who we are and where we came from.

 

[deekaypee]

deekaypee - I don't think the OP meant just the hyphen per say, but rather any descriptors that surround the word "American". I don't think a combination of words like African American would be acceptable to the OP either, but I could be wrong, maybe he could clarify. If so, then the thread is over as far as I'm concerned. I have no arguments with that at all.

Saffron,

Yes, I'm aware of what the OP was suggesting in the claim about the label "American." I was attempting, perhaps too subtly, to contextualize the OP's assertions in light of a long-standing debate about American identity in relationship to the use of descriptors with and without a hyphen; the term hyphenated American is central to this debate, as is the invocation of American Adam. Viewed in this historical context, the American myth of the melting pot becomes very complicated and open to charges of exclusionary practices, don't you think? My opening gambit was to offer the exact opposite solution, a compound word that naturalizes the hyphenation.

So in suggesting that one might create a compound word, like ItalianAmerican or ChineseAmerican rather than dropping the Italian or Chinese, I was being a bit "tongue in cheek" and perhaps a bit too clever for my own good. And in stating I support the non-hyphenated use of African American, I was making my stance in relationship to "just" American claim clear--or so I thought. Just "American" is an easier decision to make when one enjoys the privileges of being a member of an assimilated dominant culture; it's fraught with more decisions when you are an Other.

To better understand my position, I think I should make it more obvious that I"m approaching this conversation from a perspective that looks at American history and at contemporary issues. I believe another poster commented on how the label Catholic American doesn't come up but Jewish American does. In 2006, this claim is fairly accurate, but in 19th-century America, during periods of heightened anti-Catholicism, Catholic Americans claimed their hyphenated (or not) identity as a way of showing investment in both their national identity and their religious identity. Many Catholic Americans articulated their dual identity in response to this strong U.S. anti-Catholic sentiment, which assumed people could not have dual loyalty to both America and to the Church. A similar thing happened with Irish Americans, who proudly claimed their hyphenated status in light of a strong anti-Irish immigrant period. So it's no surprise that Jewish Americans and Mexican Americans might choose to use a hyphenated identity in a way that less marginalized groups may not, like many people who might be labeled Western European Americans.

Of course, some folks here might dismiss me as politically correct. I prefer to think of myself as culturally sensitive. I'm comfortable with both labels.

 

[RitaZ.]

Maggie~ I agree, just live and let live.

It all comes down to respect.