How long do they believe????

[katied]

You know, if you were my child's teacher and treated her the way you act here, I would have you up in front of the school board so fast it would make your head swim. You do NOT have the right to judge what a parent teaches a child, and especially to call a child special needs because they choose to believe in something you are too jaded to believe in. Do you also discuss "Judeo-Christian Mythology" with children and treat them as special needs children if they believe in God? There are plenty of outlets on the internet and other places that say that God is a myth. You can't see or touch either one.

I have a profoundly gifted 8 yr old. She is very clear on belief vs reality. She chooses to believe in things because it makes the world a brighter, better place. Her response to the characters at Disney was "Mom, it's just a guy in a suit, but if you really believe, then they are real." I think that is a lot healthier view of the world than not believing. Ghandi said "be the change you want to see in the world"; believing in things greater and beyond you enables you to see the world as a better and more magical place and helps you achieve that world.

Thank you for this post. You said what I was thinking far better than I could.

 

[2disneyboys]

lots of kids in my family ranging in age from 6 months to 16... I think all the kids in our family were doubting around 5/6 and by 7/8 know it's just pretend.

I have never actually denied it, but when both my sons asked me (oldest was 6 and youngest is 7 - he just asked me last week) I just told them that I believe the spirit of Christmas lives in everyone and left it at that. and we still "play" santa we just all agree to pretend

I found out FOR SURE the year I was 8 but I had been doubting for a while at that point.

 

[DaniB]

Wow, talk about a hot topic. But it's been very interesting reading all the responses and hearing what people tell their children!

My daughter is 11 1/2 years old and I'm sure she has major doubts. She has been hinting around and a couple of times asked me, but her younger brother and friends were around. So I told her we could talk when it wasn't so busy (ie, alone) and the topic hasn't come back up yet.

She is very immature. As as much as I know she has doubts, I also know she wants to still believe!

She knew ahead of time the "truth" about Disney characters (she told me ), but once we were there you would have never known! If adults (let alone children) can suspend their beliefs at Disney for chararacters, why not children for Santa? What's the difference?

My 6 1/2 year old son has absolutly no doubts whatsoever! Santa is real!

As for dances? I'm glad we don't go to dances out here at 12 years old. Way too young. Even at 13 (grade 8) I felt I was not ready, and some of my friends said the same afterwards. But you know parents and peer pressure... we had felt we "had to go"...

 

[hsmamato2]

I have a really hard time with kids spoiling it for others. They should be taught by their parents not to do so.

And (donning flame suit) I have a hard time with people who tell their kids something that is not true,and then get mad when some other kid mentions in front of their misled child the actual facts.
Not trying to debate telling or not telling your kids Santa is real, just have issues with a couple of young kids,one has been lied to,and told Santa is real. The other has always known he's not,any more than Donald Duck is real.
Why is it MY kids responsibility to help you perpetuate an untruth?
Why would someone else speaking truthfully in a public setting be so upsetting for anyone? Unless what one person considers ' keeping the innocence',another person considers it 'telling a lie'.
I wouldn't condone purposely hurting someones feelings by trying to insult them,but general talking,subject comes up with kids,one kid tells another.....
FWIW,I've never met a kid as old as 10 who didn't understand at least some concept of reality,physics,etc and know the diff. between a story and reality. I've met a few who 'play along' for their parents....

 

[livndisney]

And (donning flame suit) I have a hard time with people who tell their kids something that is not true,and then get mad when some other kid mentions in front of their misled child the actual facts.
Not trying to debate telling or not telling your kids Santa is real, just have issues with a couple of young kids,one has been lied to,and told Santa is real. The other has always known he's not,any more than Donald Duck is real.
Why is it MY kids responsibility to help you perpetuate an untruth?
Why would someone else speaking truthfully in a public setting be so upsetting for anyone? Unless what one person considers ' keeping the innocence',another person considers it 'telling a lie'.
I wouldn't condone purposely hurting someones feelings by trying to insult them,but general talking,subject comes up with kids,one kid tells another.....
FWIW,I've never met a kid as old as 10 who didn't understand at least some concept of reality,physics,etc and know the diff. between a story and reality. I've met a few who 'play along' for their parents....

Why,sometimes I've believed six impossible things before breakfast!


Interesting point of view considering your signature.

 

[katied]

Why would someone else speaking truthfully in a public setting be so upsetting for anyone? Unless what one person considers ' keeping the innocence',another person considers it 'telling a lie'.
..

Let's see - why would speaking truthfully in a public setting be so upsetting... do you really wonder?

What is someone is severly overweight, and I, speaking truthfully, have a discussion about that with another person in a public setting and the overweight person hears... do you think that might be upsetting? It would be truthful, but just because something is truthful, doesn't mean it can't upset. The fact that someone looks horrible on a certain day - can be truthful to tell them, but again, does it really need to be said?

Children of all ages need to learn that even though some things are the truth, it is not polite to discuss these things in public. Also, what is one person's truth (i.e., religious or political beliefs) may not be the same truth as someone sees. Therefore, children do need to learn to be respectful of others beliefs, and learn how to be polite and not discuss certain things in a manner than may be hurtful to others.

Children who do not believe in Santa do not need to be told to lie - they can answer the question, if asked, that they prefer not to discuss the topic, or something along those lines.

 

[crisi]

Children who do not believe in Santa do not need to be told to lie - they can answer the question, if asked, that they prefer not to discuss the topic, or something along those lines.

Its easier said then done though. At the Santa disbelief age, the rather complicated etiquette of what we can talk about in public or not is usually not well understood. This is the age where kids announce your pregnancy when it is still a family secret, talk about what they overheard about your friend's divorce, mention that their grandpa is rich, state "oh, I farted" at the dinner table, tell other kids they are going to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. If you are depending on other six to ten year olds to use discretion and manners in an effort to continue your own child's belief, its unlikely to happen.

And, frankly, the discussions I overheard regarding Santa when my kids were the questioning age had a lot to do with the questions - not the blunt statements of belief or disbelief. "Do you think Santa is real?" "How do you think he gets all the way around the world in one night" "Why doesn't Max get Santa presents just because he's Jewish" (and the similar "Why does Sam only get three presents" "Why does Austen get more than I do?") "We don't even HAVE a chimney!" And comparing the stories their parents have told them "You don't leave the front door unlocked for Santa....my mom says he can't get in if we don't leave the door unlocked since we don't have a chimney."

 

[MominCT]

I am glad that the teacher posting in the discussion is not teaching my children.

 

[nicki.momof3]

I am glad that the teacher posting in the discussion is not teaching my children.

Totally agree - any trusting adult figure that would ruin such a magical dream for a child should not be teaching.

I am a teacher and I typically defend teachers - they take a ton of abuse from parents an the public and they have very hard jobs- but sorry in this case Hannathy deserves all the flames she gets.

Let a child be a child, let parents do there jobs and let them instill whatever beliefs they want in their children, Hannathy you do your job and teach academics.

 

[hsmamato2]

well,that is sort of my point...like I said, I wasn't arguing the point of telling your kid one or the other, but it's not your responsibility to never tell me anything different,even if I did actually believe a pink grinning cat existed....KWIM?
so...no matter what I choose to tell my own kids, if someone else had a differing opinion, it shouldn't rattle my cage too much,as everyone is entitled to their own opinion....
like I said IMHO most kids I know by age 10 are pretty savvy-
and I wouldn't say one thing,tell my kiddo it's true,and then hold others accountable for 'keeping up appearances'- it;s a personal choice,right?
I mean I guess this is interesting as a question too, what do you do as a parent,if you tell your kids Santa is real- keep them away from other kids? How do you prevent the 'truth' from being told?even just casually,other kids,tv,etc.?

 

[hsmamato2]

Children of all ages need to learn that even though some things are the truth, it is not polite to discuss these things in public. Also, what is one person's truth (i.e., religious or political beliefs) may not be the same truth as someone sees. Therefore, children do need to learn to be respectful of others beliefs, and learn how to be polite and not discuss certain things in a manner than may be hurtful to others.
.

I agree here.. but as other pp's have mentioned,we're not talking about one adult insulting another in the name of 'honesty'- tactful behavior is a very good thing to learn. but KIDS, they talk, they ask each other questions.....one child should be able to express his own 'truths' as well as another,right? so if one 6 yr. old says to another"did you put out cookies for Santa?' and the other replies-"I don't believe Santa is real" ....this is what I mean- they're both speaking honestly,as kids expressing a viewpoint.
Now the only sticky situation arises if the 1st child goes home crying,saying "Johnny at school says Santa isn't real! is that true?"
-----see, the kids weren't being horrid, or arguing,just talking. and that's why I posted what I did, b/c if that pp got mad at my small kid for 'bursting her kids bubble' unintentionally, then I have a hard time with that ......
We all know what the 'real' reality is....most pp's here on this thread wouldn't let their kids see these posts...... but the reality is,if your kids go to school,or watch tv,go online, etc they do hear these things.
If you as a family enjoy the story,etc and sharing the whole Santa thing together, that is your right ,and nothing that others say should ruin any of that.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

my girls are 6 and 7 (almost 8) and still believe. my almost 8 year old has been questioning it since she was 5 but i always ask her "do you believe?" and she says "yes" so i tell her "then there is a Santa".

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

teachers need to stick to academics and not take away a child's "childhood" from them as this teacher believes is his/her responsibility. i totally agree with you.

I have a profoundly gifted 8 yr old. She is very clear on belief vs reality. She chooses to believe in things because it makes the world a brighter, better place. Her response to the characters at Disney was "Mom, it's just a guy in a suit, but if you really believe, then they are real." I think that is a lot healthier view of the world than not believing. Ghandi said "be the change you want to see in the world"; believing in things greater and beyond you enables you to see the world as a better and more magical place and helps you achieve that world.

 

[Hannathy]

Once and for all I NEVER told any child there was no SANTA!!!!!!

All I ever did was to tell the 4th graders to keep whatever they did or didn't believe to themselves and to not bother the 3rd graders no matter what they believed!. It is amazing that none of the parents or other teachers or administration ever had any problem with it like a few on this thread. Geeze!.

I guess I should have left the 4th graders tell the third graders like they wanted to in not so kind ways. And believe me children are not kind when they want to burst another child's bubble. believe what you want that other kids won't tease your kid if they still believes when they are older but they do and they will.

 

[Teamubr]

Once and for all I NEVER told any child there was no SANTA!!!!!!

I don't agree with the way Hannathy said kids were "special" or learning disabled if they still believed at 12, but I do have to defend her/him a bit. She/he never said they told their students. And in fact tried to keep the older kids from ruining it for the younger ones. As for teaching skills, who knows from what she's posted.

Now, that said, my DS 12 (13 in 2 weeks) came home 2 years ago and said kids at school said there was no Santa, but he knew there really was. I just agreed. We also watched Polar Express around that time. On Christmas eve he wrote Santa a note asking for a reindeer bell. That knight I found a big "christmas'y" bell, pulled some leather through it and left it on the table by the note. He found it in the morning and screamed, "I still hear it!" So I figured there was starting to be some doubt. Last year he told me, in a question, that he didn't think there was a santa.
A bit more on my DS. We adopted him from Ukraine at 23 1/2 months old. He is learning disabled but mostly in reading and verbal comprehension. Math and Science he excels. He is VERY immature, physically and mentally. Probably results of fetal alcohol syndrome and terrible nutrition before 2. Despite my DS's challenges, he has friends (without learning issues) that believed as long as he did. (age 11+)

I think most people are making a much bigger deal out of whether kids believed at 12. It's the same arguements I heard about toddlers that walked at 9 mos vs "those poor 'special' kids" that didn't walk until 16 mos. Substitute any other developmental milestone you prefer.

All kids are different and mature or choose what to believe at different ages. We need to stop projecting adult thought processes onto kids. They don't get it the way we do. Thank goodness!

BTW, I still hear the bell too!

 

[MinnieGi]

Our oldest DD is a new 10 and in 4th grade, straight A student and still believes...DH and I can't believe it's lasted this long!!! Believe me she knows the difference between reality and fiction. She sure doesn't believe the Santas you meet at the mall are real, but she enjoys the Santa stories and books. We are holding are breath though and seeing if we can eek one more believing Christmas out of her!!! Santa is so prevalent in marketing that it seem as if he has to be true!

Her 6yo brother was actually much more skeptical about Santa last year, but for some unknown reason to DH or I he is totally believing this year and has even written three letters and wants to see Santa at the mall. Last year I couldn't bribe him to go get a picture with Santa!! I'm guessing he wants to make sure he gets his presents!! LOL!

 

[rubato]

Last Christmas was the end for us. Our 10 year old son came home from school in November and said the kids told him Santa wasn't real. I asked him what he thought. He said that he thought he was. But, he looked at me with that question in his eyes. I told him that if he believed it, then it must be real.

Fast forward to Christmas Eve. My son is laying around and, out of the blue, says "Mom, don't lie to me. You always say it's important to be honest. Is Santa Claus a real person?" Because of the way he worded it, I had to say that, no, he isn't a real person. I then explained about St. Nicholas, and the real man, and the spirit of giving and blah, blah, blah. My son cried himself to sleep that night and we had the worst Christmas I could ever imagine. He ended up crying for days. He said that he had always dreamed of being Santa when he grew up because he was the best man he knew.

I think this year will be good. He's matured an awful lot in the last 12 months. And, now I don't have to feel guilty for lying to my child.

 

[disneypharm]

I think 3rd to 4th grade is the real line. When I taught 3rd/4th split I still had a fair number of 3rd graders who truly believed but by the 4th grade they knew. I used to gather the 4th graders and give them the talk about not being nasty about Santa. Most kids just pulled out the dictionary and looked up Santa Clause and voila they knew. That is why I say wheat I say about 12 yr olds!

I also believe that any 12 yr old that says they believe is keeping Mom happy or has some real deduction skills problems. I know my 10 yr old didn't believe but didn't want to come out and say it cause he thought I liked him thinking there was a Santa.

Geez, for god sake, people be nice!! Stop attacking her. If you read the above, Hannathy never said that Santa doesn't exist! She talked to the kids about not being nasty and not to ruin it for the younger kids who still believe.

I have a really hard time with kids spoiling it for others. They should be taught by their parents not to do so. I had to tell a child I taught in kindergarten once that it was not OK to tell the other kids and to just keep it to herself. She was a good kid. I just don't understand why others need to be mean about it. Maybe they feel they missed out.

I agree with you Jessica14. When DD12 was a 3rd grader, a 4th grader told her that there is no Santa and laughed at her for believing. She was devastated. I wish someone (her parents or a teacher) would have told the girl to stop spoiling it for others.

As far as the comment about children 12 years old, it is Hannathy's opinion. That's all, it doesn't say anything about her teaching skills. It doesn't mean that she can't teach Maths or Science to the kids!

 

[StitchBuddy]

Wow, this is a hot topic!! My daughter told me the other night that the last time she really believed was in second grade so 7 almost 8 years old. But, she still played along. Our neighborhood kids ruined it for her. We still fill all of our stockings. She has a blast helping me and DH fill each others stockings and I still have a great time with hers. She thinks it is very funny that I was Santa and her dad was the Tooth Fairy. I know some kids are able to believe longer and that's great! Heck I wish Santa would give me my hearts desire!

 

[crisi]

My baby sister - who is now 38 - had my parents snowed until she was twelve - frankly she was ALWAYS good an snowing my parents - that didn't change for ages until she snowed them one too many times. But at twelve they still wanted to believe her innocence....and my sister and I (4 and 6 years older) had convinced ourselves that the gift giving would diminish when the baby no longer believed. So when she told us - not asked us, but told us - at FIVE (in addition to being good at snowing my parents, she was precocious), we told her she had to keep on believing or we wouldn't get presents - and she kept it up for seven years.