How Kneeling Became a Protest Symbol

[Allison]

Another mind reader! So when Colin Kaepernick kneels can I say : "Social injustice/police brutality. That's funny. I highly doubt that is what the had on his mind when he took a knee"?

No, not a mind reader. There is no need to be. He has spoken about it. So, are you calling him a liar? Can you tell us what those women said?

At a certain point you have to really wonder if it isnt the How, When and Where of the protests but rather the Why.

Of course you do.

So the person who we actually have a statement about why he did what he did must be lying, but the two who we don't even know who they are much less have a statement about what their thoughts were that day are totally patriotic. OK, gotcha!

It is so absurd, it's funny.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Only replying here because of what you just said to me.

To me, this could be taken as attacking. Are you trying to belittle the person by questioning him over something so mundane that isnt even germane to the point you are trying to make? I am not saying that is without a doubt what you were doing, just that this can come off as a micro-aggression to even someone that shares the same stance as you. Little bits like this have been sprinkled throughout this entire thread and I could understand the person I quoted as feeling attacked being that there are about 3 people with that stance and the rest of us are opposed.

I hope you can understand where I am coming from as I type this...

No, I was genuinely asking. I didn’t understand it except in a method to discredit Kap. I was trying to understand if there was a reason for it.

But I see attacking and assertive as two different things. If a person posted once with their opinion and then the conversation went on and on with people quoting them, that would be attacking. But when people follow up to their own initial post, it’s a conversation. I don’t have any problem with people have a difference of opinion, but they should be able to back up their stance instead of just commenting the same thing over and over again. If they have nothing more constructive to say, move on.

But in the end, I hope we’re all adult enough to realize we are ALL having a conversation on an internet board. I will respect the rules here, but I never quite understood the idea of reporting somebody or even rules on what can be discussed. Short of actual threats against another member, I find very little to be attacking. What’s that saying - if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. If anybody comments here they should be ready to defend their position or be willing to move on.

 

[Heather07438]

At risk of turning this thread into a whole other thing....

How does someone serving in Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc equate to them fighting for our rights of free speech, the right to kneel, etc.? (I say this a a daughter of man that served in Vietnam.) I get the intent behind those words but I really don't understand it. Fighting in most of these wars did nothing to further our rights, or to preserve them. To me those that served in the Revolutionary War and Civil war are the ones that can claim that that is what they served and fought for.

I am not asking to be flamed, nor am I asking to start an argument. I am genuinely curious.

I think because we so often hear the same tired responses about how "OMG, So disrespectful to those who've served our country!" Like that's the bulk of some people's argument.

To hear vets confirm they're not feeling disrespected and acknowledge these fall under the freedoms they thought they were protecting carries some weight. They can speak for themselves, especially in the face of some of these emotionally charged claims.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Really? You know the flag is not just fabric. It’s a symbol of our freedom.

You mean like the freedom to kneel in protest? Or does that not count?

It’s so hard for me to respect anyone who protests our flag, let alone someone who does it wearing socks with pictures of cops depicted as pigs on them.

Would you respect someone that defends an object claiming it's a symbol only to throw what it symbolizes in the trash when it suits them?

Another mind reader! So when Colin Kaepernick kneels can I say : "Social injustice/police brutality. That's funny. I highly doubt that is what the had on his mind when he took a knee"?

If you can read minds and claim their motive was patriotism, she can equally read minds and say it wasn't. Nor do you have to read Kap's mind. He flat out said why he's doing it.

Nope. I have the right not to listen to other voices on a subject where my mind is made up. I was brought up to believe that burning the flag and not standing for the anthem or pledge is disrespectful. That's how I raised my kids. Not changing my views on the topic no matter how many NFL players or female soccer players do it. I've listened to the arguments. You will never convince me that doing this a legitimate form of protest. Has the same legitimacy as looting a Target.

Well seeing as how you're not going to listen to anyone and engage in a give and take discussion, you're acting in bad faith and there is no need for your presence any more in this discussion.

 

[msjprincess]

You mean like the freedom to kneel in protest? Or does that not count?

Apparently the symbol of freedom is more important than the actual freedom.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I get why athletes kneel, it's because even though they are wealthy successful people they are still voiceless in the face of the machine. Same goes for all the women who wore black at the awards last year in solidarity for the Me Too movement, they are famous but censored too and therefore voiceless. The only thing that works when you can't be heard is sign language.

Celebrities - more notably individual iactors and performers, much more than athletes, being part of a team - aren't voiceless. They have many outlets. All actresses wearing black, or more than one football player at a time, shows solidarity.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Another mind reader! So when Colin Kaepernick kneels can I say : "Social injustice/police brutality. That's funny. I highly doubt that is what the had on his mind when he took a knee"?

You absolutely can - assuming you are physically able to utter words. You even may. The Bill of Rights guarantees it.

You would be wrong, but you are legally allowed free speech.

Well sorry. If "Kap" said so then it must be the gospel. I'm sure he did not have any ulterior motives like trying to draw attention to himself personally.

A report, not a quote, but Kaepernick told NFL Network's Steve Wyche on Saturday that he was sitting during the anthem in protest of societal wrongdoings against African-Americans and minorities in the United States. certainly seems to belie that thought. https://www.nfl.com/news/kaepernick-reid-take-a-knee-during-national-anthem-0ap3000000694268

 

[LuvOrlando]

Celebrities - more notably individual iactors and performers, much more than athletes, being part of a team - aren't voiceless. They have many outlets. All actresses wearing black, or more than one football player at a time, shows solidarity.

I disagree, neither would ever in a million years get the same platform. It's ok if you disagree but my mind is firm.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Same platform as...?

 

[monkeydawn]

No, I was genuinely asking. I didn’t understand it except in a method to discredit Kap. I was trying to understand if there was a reason for it.

It's common enough to use quotation marks around a nickname. Since Kap isnt his proper name, that's all I took it to be.

But I see attacking and assertive as two different things. If a person posted once with their opinion and then the conversation went on and on with people quoting them, that would be attacking. But when people follow up to their own initial post, it’s a conversation. I don’t have any problem with people have a difference of opinion, but they should be able to back up their stance instead of just commenting the same thing over and over again. If they have nothing more constructive to say, move on.

But in the end, I hope we’re all adult enough to realize we are ALL having a conversation on an internet board. I will respect the rules here, but I never quite understood the idea of reporting somebody or even rules on what can be discussed. Short of actual threats against another member, I find very little to be attacking. What’s that saying - if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. If anybody comments here they should be ready to defend their position or be willing to move on.

The negative replies to mrsap and darklord outweigh those in support or the replies. I dont know, reading it all in one shot, which is what I did, it comes off as a lot of great points being made but also a fair amount of sarcasm and negativity being lobbied at them personally (rather than their ideas).

 

[LuvOrlando]

Same platform as...?

NFL games and National awards shows, where did you think the taking a knee and black dresses were happening before this post response? Very curious what you think was going on.

 

[monkeydawn]

NFL games and National awards shows, where did you think the taking a knee and black dresses were happening before this post response? Very curious what you think was going on.

I'm having a hard time following what you are saying. Can you maybe rephrase?

 

[LuvOrlando]

If you don't get it I am doubtful I can say anything more to help. Not everyone understands everyone else.

 

[monkeydawn]

If you don't get it I am doubtful I can say anything more to help. Not everyone understands everyone else.

Your replies seem terse and piecemeal. Even going back and trying to just read your posts I have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Thats ok, I can accept you not understanding me.

 

[kaytieeldr]

NFL games and National awards shows, where did you think the taking a knee and black dresses were happening before this post response? Very curious what you think was going on.

Why do you think actresses are voiceless?

 

[LuvOrlando]

OK, I am not the Neo of the movements and will not hijack, I am stepping away.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

It's common enough to use quotation marks around a nickname. Since Kap isnt his proper name, that's all I took it to be.



The negative replies to mrsap and darklord outweigh those in support or the replies. I dont know, reading it all in one shot, which is what I did, it comes off as a lot of great points being made but also a fair amount of sarcasm and negativity being lobbied at them personally (rather than their ideas).

So because you took it one way, that’s the way everybody should? You asked a question, I think trying to bait me into making your point, but you don’t like when I answer honestly? We had been discussing Kap for pages at the point and nobody had put his name in quotes. To have somebody do it midway through the conversation does raise a red flag for me.

The sarcasm goes both ways. But I stand by, just because they were in the minority voices, doesn’t mean they were being attacked. They continued the conversation, which makes them willing participants. Some of their comments were not just about broad ideas either, so when comments like that are made, people are able to reply to them. And again, we’re all adults. If people can’t handle a little sarcasm and even a few digs, they shouldn’t be on a public discussion board. But yes, maybe had you been here as it was happening, you’d feel differently.

I disagree with @Darklord77 on everything, but I have never once doubted his ability to hold his own.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Why do you think actresses are voiceless?

Not answering for anybody, but because their personal opinions are often criticized and used against them in future hiring. It’s not that they’re not allowed, it’s that they have to weigh the consequences seriously if they want to continue to work. The Me Too movement is a great example - how many were afraid to come forward before this movement started?

ETA: I have seen plenty on social media and even our own awards show threads here, plenty of people say that actors/actresses need to stay in their own lanes and shouldn’t use the awards shows or red carpets for anything “political”.

 

[monkeydawn]

So because you took it one way, that’s the way everybody should?

I didnt say that.

You asked a question, I think trying to bait me into making your point, but you don’t like when I answer honestly?

I didnt say that either.



Stupid infighting like this is a huge problem that takes away from the real issue. Maybe take a deeper look withing yourself to see why, when we agreed on all major points, you felt you needed to derail the conversation. I am done participating in the diversion.