How important are AP classes? (long)

[rascalmom]

My dd17 had her first day of school yesterday. She came home concerned that she may have too many difficult classes this year (she's a junior). So far, she has been a straight A student.

She took AP Euro last year & did well, but it was a lot of work. They read 17 books (things like The Prince by Macchiavelli) & had massive amounts of homework. She found out at some point last semester that she was ranked #1 in her class.

This year, she is enrolled in AP Chemistry, AP US History, PreAP English & PreAP Alg II. Her electives are fun - drama, show choir & advanced women's chorus, but they require a lot of time (performances, contests, school musical, school talent show, etc.) So - 7 hours, the norm is 6.

She broke into tears last night because she is feeling a bit stressed. I feel terrible - I fear that she thinks I expect all of this. I truly don't. She was worried about dropping down to the regular level history class because of how it would effect her class rank. She's worried about the chemistry - most of the class was in PreAP Chem last year & she was just in regular chem.

Do you have any experience with the AP process? Is it really worthwhile? The time & commitment is pretty intense. What would you advise her to do? I'm afraid I haven't done a very good job of letting her know how proud we are of her. How do I let her know that without her feeling pressured to keep at that same level unless SHE wants it?

I want her to have time for a social life & to have fun in high school. How do you balance all of that? Seems like so much more is expected of kids today than when I went to school! Her AP Euro class last year was tougher than any course I took in college.

 

[Patch'sD]

Junior year is the most important and hardest. This is the basis for the College Admission. Every college application asks about class rank and Honor/AP Classes. My oldest got through it no problem and was a two sport athlete (12 Hours per week). He is now a Sophmore in College with Junior Status, 6 of his AP Courses were accepted as credits, so he started college with 24 credits. I would tell her to try it for the first quarter, if not doing well go to the honors class. This leaves three quarters to recover. In today's environment those classes plus her after school activities will help get her into the college she wants. Senior year is the time to have fun, work hard as a junior.

 

[Beth76]

I would advise her to drop AP Chemistry if she's really concerned. Yes, Junior year is important, but more important than her sanity? Colleges like to see extra-cirricular activities as well.

 

[luvmarypoppins]

My ds goes to a small private school and they didnt let any of the juniors take ap classes last year. This year for his senior year he is taking AP Chemistry, AP English, AP History and Government and maybe another one I am not sure of, plus he will be playing basketball and is working part time which I want him to quit, his schedule for that is mon and wed. 5-9. I told him there is no way he can do all that work. He is only an average student anyway. He just got average sat scores, we want him to take it over again in oct. I agree with the other posters, junior year is the most important and since some teachers and my ds had personality issues he didnt get good grades so I feel he practically blew it, yes, senior year should be fun, I agree, his terrible school says there are no study halls, all seniors must have their whole schdules filled each day etc. Gee. I think the kids today are under alot of pressure, but in a global economy where we need to compete our kids are way behind academically compared to other countries.

 

[harleyquinn]

I honestly don't think her schedule looks too bad. I remember it being overwhelming at first, but as you get in the flow, you just do what you gotta do. I had a bunch of extra-curiculars too.

It's all about balance. AP classes are awesome! You really don't appreciate it until you graduate early from college like I did. It saved me thousands of dollars. If money is a concern, AP classes are a great way to save.

That said the AP classes I took were MUCH MUCH harder than the introductory college classes they replaced. My school did not accept my AP Biology lab, only the class. I had to take the lab, which I ended up basically teaching the entire thing, because the TA was clueless. In my HS lab we disected a fetal pig (yuck!) in college we didn't even do worms!

Back to the balance thing. If she is overwhelmed now, imagine what she'll be when she has to take all those tests! She is still a child and deserves to enjoy her remaining time in school. I took a total of 4 AP classes in school, it was all that was available to me.

She's obviously smart enough to be in the Chem class, especially since it will be a lot of repition from the old class. My AP Bio was so close to the regular bio that I took the year before--it was just more test prep, but the intro class made the real thing much easier. If she intends on taking the non-pre classes next year, I encourage her to take the pre classes, becasue it'll make her senior year easier.

My Junior year was by far the toughest, but when it was all done, I was very proud! She is taking basically what I took then. The thing to remember is it all goes down the drain with a bad test score. Imagine studing for all those tests! But if she's only taking 2, that's not bad at all.

I would also encourage her to try the schdule, but only you can see if she really needs to cut back. there's nothing wrong with that!

My other concern is if she's anything like me, she'll hate the regular classes. I was so bored with any non-honors/AP classes that even with the work, I had to take the harder classes or i would be miserable. I needed the challenge.

Best of luck!! I mentor a few teens around the country using email or AIM, so if she needs someone to talk to, who has been there, please PM me or send me an email

 

[bsnyder]

You ask how important it is. That all depends on what colleges your DD is interested in going to. At the elite, competitive colleges and universities, it does make a huge difference. Once you drop down to the next tier, I don't think it matters much at all.

And unless you want your child to zip through college in the least amount of time possible, the possibility of gaining college credit for those classes loses some of its' appeal.

 

[PlaneJoy1]

I think that there comes a point for any student with more that 1 AP class when they get nervous about their schedule and wonder if they can REALLY do it. The syllabus has been passed out and your trying to figure out how you can fit all this in plus a social life. It's difficult.

Before dropping the AP, I think I would drop some the "extra" stuff. Still do the musical, but maybe not the talent show. Find a balance of what extra stuff can be done. Most of the AP teachers know what kind of pressure these kids are under. I don't know how things are now, but my AP teacher were the ones that worked the best with the students... when they planned ahead. Such as AP History has a project due the same week as AP Chem. If we asked well in advance, one teacher would usually move the project to a different week.

As long as you let her know that you love her no matter what level of classe she's taking and support her in her decisions, that's really what matters.

 

[welovewdw]

You ask how important it is. That all depends on what colleges your DD is interested in going to. At the elite, competitive colleges and universities, it does make a huge difference. Once you drop down to the next tier, I don't think it matters much at all.

I would agree with this - our dd is a sr. this year - last year she took 2 AP classes and all honors - this year she has all AP classes, but she wants to go to UVA and if she wants to get in, she needs the AP classes. She also plays 3 sports - so she's a busy girl.

I do think that the beginning of school it can be harder to get back into the swing of things - so I'd agree with letting her try for at least the first grading period and see if it gets better. If she's still that stressed, I would not make her take them personally - because there are plenty of good schools out there and there are MANY very successful people that didn't go to Harvard or an elite school and didn't take AP classes.

 

[Lynn CC]

Colleges love to see a student who challenges himself and can balance work and activites and still do well.
My DS who is going to be a Freshman in College in just a couple of weeks is going into college with 12 transfer credits because they took his AP classes that qualified in High School and transfered them over to his college record. I know it saved us over $6000 in classes that he would of had to take in college. I think that's a significant savings. The AP tests are $82 each in high school, if they get a passing grade usually a 4 or 5 then colleges give them the credits for that class. DS didn't do marching band his senior year, after being in it for 7 years...senior year was too much work!

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

Has this been a concern of hers for some time, or is it just now that the courses are staring her in the face? If the reality has just hit, my first reaction as a mom would NOT be to let her up and quit before the first week is out. I would talk to her about what her real concerns are--time mangement, a social life, is it really important for her to be competitive--it really depends on the child. My DD10 is already talking about taking college classes--she's gifted, I could see her doing it--but couldn't care less about class rank and all. She just wants to learn. For her, she would want the challenge. One of her best friends is a child that likes to "win" all the time--not saying it's good or bad, just a different look at things. Sometimes I wish DD would be a little MORE competitive, but she just doesn't care.

I loved my AP classes--they were much more consistently interesting than the typical ones. But, also much more work. My suggestion is to (a) have her prioritize her activities, and then (b) stick it out through a month, at least, to see if her fears are reality. It shouldn't be too hard to move down if she's struggling, but once she does that, they're not likely to let her move back up later.

Good luck, junior year IS the most important for colleges. No easy answers here!

 

[RadioNate]

I think it all depends on what colleges she is looking into. Will she be able to get in her college of choice and are you all ok with her taking 4-5 years to graduate?

I went to a very selective academic prep school we had AP, honors and regular classes. I never took an AP or honors class (though I probablly would have qualified for them at the public school), my class rank was in the bottom half of the class yet I had no problem getting into the colleges I applied to. I was even accepted into Purdue's honors program and graduated with honors.

I agree that she may want to try. However is there a process to drop the classes if she can't keep up?

 

[chrissyk]

Does she know what she is planning on studying/majoring in in college? I would try to gear my AP course selection towards my desired field. In other words, AP Euro would be a waste of a lot of hard work for a science or engineering major, but AP chem. and a good score on the AP exam would save her from taking the required 1st year college chemistry for those majors. It would be vice versa for a history major I'd think. Also, I took some AP's in high school, but not a ton. When I got to college, I was able to take placement exams that got me some credits right there. For instance, I placed into a higher-level physics class, and once I passed that class I was granted credit for the 2 preceeding physics classes in the series. Some colleges work it that way too, so AP's wouldn't be vital in that instance. It all really depends on where she feels her focus will be in college.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I took AP Calc and AP American History. AP American History was much much harder than college AH--I got a 2 on the exam, so no credit. I took it at University and faired much much better. I don't think I miraculously became smarter---just AP is so tough. Calculous was rough my senior year--but it was suitably so.

Senior Year, I moved to Florida---I was given the option of AP English or Dual Enrollment English. AP--you have to take a test, make a certain score and be exempt. Dual Enrollment, you are taking college Composition--it fulfills Gordon Rule, you succeed in the class you have credit and it shows on your transcripts. I got an A in both semesters of DE English. And it came in handy b/c I narrowly lost a scholarship my freshman year. I had a bad first semester and needed a 4.0 second semester to keep it. I almost got a 4.0---but I didn't and my GPA fell short. Those A's from DE English kept my GPA at the appropriate level and I kept my scholarship. Had I taken AP English--not only would I have risked not getting credit for English---but even if I did, I would have lost my scholarship.

I think it is up to interest level of the student--if a Dual Enrollment (program in Florida) equivilant or viable option were available, I would definitely go that route--depending on your college plans. You want to make sure credits are transferrable to your colleges of choice.

Just b/c one makes an A in a AP class--you only get credit for a 3, 4, or 5 on the exam.

I did poorly on my AP American History b/c there was stuff that our teacher never touched. Others did well--but I missed the boat somewhere! I forget my college grades--but did really well with my college level history classes.

 

[LukenDC]

As other posters have written, junior year is the most important year of high school for the college bound. College admissions have become much more competitive and AP classes are crucial to gaining admission to the most selective schools. If your daughter has ambitions for the Ivy League or a blue chip state university (e.g. UC Berkely, UCLA, UVA), then her academic schedule is not unreasonable. If she plans to attend a less selective university, then she could probably drop an AP class and still be competitive in the applicant pool.

She might consider dropping one of her electives or extracurriculars for something less demanding. I interview applicants for an Ivy League university and I see a lot of kids who spread themselves too thin in the hopes of impressing the admissions staff. The admissions office would much rather see in-depth involvement in one or two substantial extracurriculars than superficial involvement in several activities. I might also add that volunteer work, beyond the Key Club or Scouting, always looks good on an application.

Junior year is tough, but it will be over before you know it!

 

[Heather Smith]

OK - Here's a different take.

My daughter just graduated from Virginia Tech summa cum laude (in 4 years) with a degree in math. She never took an AP course, and she only took through pre-cal in high school. We live in Fairfax County VA, which tends to be a highly competitive area, and quite frankly she didn't even want to compete academically in high school. She did graduate with little effort and a 3.7 and letters in two sports. She had 1450 SATs. Most importantly she enjoyed a stress free fun high school life.

She had two friends who worked their butts off in high school with AP courses and every activity they could fit in so they could go to UVA or William and Mary. They are now living back with the folks and going to George Mason (both flunked out).

My point is many (not all) kids need time to enjoy life while they emotionally mature and figue out what is important to them. IMHO this is what high school is for. The long term consequeneces are much tougher when they want to "find" themselves in college.

 

[nemo1987]

When I was a junior (2 years ago), I was in AP American Studies which is American Literature and History combined all into one class. This class really sucked because we were in it for an hour and a half everyday and one day we would have all English and the next all History. Then another day they would split it and have both lessons combined. I have no idea why they called our class AP because we did everything that the regular class did with the exception of about 5-6 more term projects. We learned all of the same stuff and went over everything the same way the other classes did. Our projects that we did had to be at least 1/2 hour research projects, we had to write up essays about them and we had to have like 50+ notecards to turn in. In addition to having the term projects (those averaged out to be about 6 per person) we read four novels. The teachers also threw in assignments whenever they felt like it. I walked away from this class learning a few new things but the other things I had already learned in the 5th grade when I had history. I have regretted not taking the other History and English classes I had picked out because they would have better prepared me for college. I also barely had any time for extra curricular activities and quit one because it was getting in the way of my school work. Good luck to your daughter in whatever she chooses!! I hope she has a good year!
-Sarah

 

[missypie]

As you are probably aware, many of our great Texas students are flocking to Oklahoma universities because they can't get into UT or A&M. In lieu of using race as a factor in college admissions, Texas lets any student in the top 10% of their class into any state school. UT and A&M could populate their entire campuses with top 10% kids if they wanted. Our school is on a 5.0 scale and for the last 2 years, the bottom of the top 10% has been 5.05. How do you get the extra points to break into the top 10%? AP classes that give extra points.

Does your daughter anticipate wanting to get into a super-competitive school? If so, she needs to stick out the AP courses. However, if the schools she likes are not ultra-hard to get into, let her back off and have a life.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I'm so glad I'm not in High School these days. I remember High School as being fun, not so much of a grind and 'OMG YOU BETTER TAKE THIS CLASS AND PASS IT WITH AN A++ OR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE IS RUINED' kind of feeling.

She sounds like a great kid. I'm sure she'll make the choice that is best for her.

The first days of school are kind of stressful for everybody though. My sophomore came home yesterday all freaky and anxious over his schedule. I had to calm him down with a trip to Panda Express.

 

[tar heel]

Well, at our high school she wouldn't be able to change now. No schedule changes are allowed unless the school changes/adds/cancels a class once school opens. The counselors make a big deal about this to students signing up for AP classes.

My oldest son was not #1 in his class but his SAT was high enough to get him a National Merit Scholarship. He only took three AP classes. He did not apply to an Ivy League school, Davidson, etc. He was accepted at UNC Chapel Hill, which is very selective.

BTW, he got 5s on both his AP math classes. He thought the second level college Stat classes was easier than the high school one. He really struggled in the second level Engineering Calculus class, though, and felt he was not even remotely prepared for it. He didn't feel "ready" for his Calculus class until third semester.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

i would just be supportive of her
tell her to take her time and get into a schedule/pattern once whe does this should help

it might be tough but it will only make her stronger