How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This is so overdue. I think it's inexcusable we've had this technology for years and haven't used it, every officer should have a collar cam.

Cameras don't necessarily eliminate controversy but they do provide valuable evidence and context.

Someone recorded the other police shooting in St Louis (the one with the knife) from start to finish, they were already recording the guy that stole the sodas when the police showed up so the camera was already rolling. I thought it looked like a clear case of suicide by cop but even with the video people are already debating whether deadly force was necessary.

Debate will always happen but at least with a video the debate is based on some sort of evidence rather than "he said, she said" speculation.

ETA: the video is available on youtube and several news outlets for anyone interested but I'm not going to link to it because it shows someone getting shot and killed.

YES!

I did watch the video and he really didn't seem to have a knife. Whoever, he was getting closer to the officers and what we don't see due to distance is whether he pulled a knife. But it does seem he clearly wasn't waving a knife around erratically. Hopefully collar cam has the officer POV.

There was a video floating around on Facebook. The detectives were not in uniform but were outfitted like they were working--so I ask dee if it was. A Bust of some kind. In real time, they show multiple officers with gun on the suspect. He has a "rifle" like weapon (don't know my firearms--but long firearm as opposed to handgun.). He puts it down on the ground and is suddenly shot. So on first look, you think what the heck? Slowed down, as suspect is putting down firearm, he reaches to his backside and guy see him pull out a handgun. As soon as gun is visible, that is when lethal force is issued. Then video plays real time again and you actually hear a detective yell "GUN" and then everyone fires.

The video makes if indisputable, though the handgun would have been on his person. But the video removes all doubt that the suspect was only feigning surfs surrender.

Side note, I saw a cop at a traffic stop with a bulletproof vest. I think it was a state trooper. Cameras and those vests--keeps cops safe and honest. Protects whomever they have pulled over as well for their own due process.

Long overdue.

 

[rickybobby]

There would at least be audio of what occurred. In combination with the witness statements that would shed a lot of light on the event.

As far as what happened after whatever happened inside the car, again there would be audio and quite possibly video.

Not only would there have been audio of the conversations that took place, but of all the gunshots as well.

 

[rickybobby]

Our ancestors have all been through stuff. My relatives went through the Holocaust and pogroms and being blamed for everything going wrong in Europe and slavery too. It's history. We don't blame German,Austrian, Polish people that never took part in the horrors. How can we? They are blameless. They did not choose their parents. Thank goodness many of our families have used those experiences to motivate and build better lives. It gave our grandparents the "we'll show them" attitude and a determination to succeed.

These past atrocities are in the past, not something we dwell on. Do we think about it, sure. It's the same with many black families families and other families around the world whose history has been painful. It happened, it's past, now we move on and make better lives.

Good post.
This harkens back to my disagreement with a poster way back up this thread in which he says he has actually taught his kids to neither trust or to voluntarily cooperate with police officers. Breaking the cycle of mistrust has to be accomplished by both sides, not just one.

 

[pat fan]

I saw this on my FB feed (if that makes a difference) and I feel for the guy being interviewed! He's trying to protect a business, but he could easily have been beaten or killed for it. Smart to walk away, but those other folks, my God, how do you reach them?

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/170...s-looters-shows-us-america-really-looks-like/

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Did you provide a link or a name of the blog with your post? the thread was moving really fast and I have been away from my computer quite a bit so I missed it. You're right, livie's cut and paste was an opinion piece, but I judge opinion pieces as a whole of the author's work. I try to look up every blog quoted without a source on threads I'm interested in. PLUS, it's simply good manners to give credit to the original author ... especially if you agree with the blog post .

I didn't. It was a long blog I had see a couple days prior & was paraphrasing a couple lines

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Wilson is getting due process. Brown did not. Even assuming that the use of deadly force was totally legal and justified, there was not due process.

If many of the protesters had their way, there would be no due process for Wilson.

As for Brown, never said he got due process - said justice MAY have been served.

 

[2princesses3princes]

Our ancestors have all been through stuff. My relatives went through the Holocaust and pogroms and being blamed for everything going wrong in Europe and slavery too. It's history. We don't blame German,Austrian, Polish people that never took part in the horrors. How can we? They are blameless. They did not choose their parents. Thank goodness many of our families have used those experiences to motivate and build better lives. It gave our grandparents the "we'll show them" attitude and a determination to succeed.

These past atrocities are in the past, not something we dwell on. Do we think about it, sure. It's the same with many black families families and other families around the world whose history has been painful. It happened, it's past, now we move on and make better lives.

I've been lurking on this thread for a few days now. I just wanted to hop in and say that I 100% agree with this post. It is time to quit blaming the entirety of whites in the US for what happened in the past. I agree that there is still racism and inequality, however, this goes both ways. There was even more racism and inequality in the 60's then there is now. But the conditions for poor blacks in the US is getting worse instead of better. We have to start thinking about why that is the case and start addressing those issues. I have my own opinions on those causes, but I don't want to get ripped apart so I'll keep them to myself.
I will say, though, I have had to go into areas of Milwaukee for my job that have me shaking in my shoes b/c it is a place that a "white girl" does not belong. The only thing that gives me a thin layer of protection is my social worker badge.


Personally, I am withholding judgment on this case until more facts are released.

 

[livie1205]

A cop must access a situation and act in a split second but everyone else can take hours or days to decide what he should have done.The intresting thing is you would never think about telling your Dr how to perform your heart surg yet no one has a issue with telling police how to do a job they are trained to do and a job most could not / would not do. I have no problem with body cams, mics and anything else to keep them honest but I have never seen so many people get L.E. Training as fast as I have watching the news this week.

This answers some of the questions some keep asking , to make sure there are no misunderstandings i will post link
http://www.policeone.com/ferguson/a...s-to-the-6-most-asked-use-of-force-questions/

 

[CPT Tripss]

Good post.
This harkens back to my disagreement with a poster way back up this thread in which he says he has actually taught his kids to neither trust or to voluntarily cooperate with police officers. Breaking the cycle of mistrust has to be accomplished by both sides, not just one.

Who makes the first move? The police and the law enforcement system, or those who feel distrust of the police?

If many of the protesters had their way, there would be no due process for Wilson.

As for Brown, never said he got due process - said justice MAY have been served.

My post . . .

"Really? I can accept that you might think that such a shooting would be legal. But serving justice? No way . . . There was absolutely no due process!"

 

[CPT Tripss]

Not only would there have been audio of the conversations that took place, but of all the gunshots as well.

Wasn't that obvious?

 

[Colleen27]

Debating this statistic or that, doesn't tell anything about what transpired in the death of Michael Brown. You cannot apply group statistics to any given incident. If someone wishes to imply, due to research that concludes that overall police are harder on African American youths than white kids, that it's likely that racial profiling was at work when Wilson decided to engage Brown & Johnson or when Wilson decided to consider Brown a threat to his life and overreacted... then should be also use the statistic that a large majority of investigations into police shooting determine that they were "justifiable" as the basis to believe that Officer Wilson's actions were warranted???

Those statistics and that tangent only came in re: the sub-discussion about why there aren't more black officers on the PD (in Ferguson or in any other majority black community). They don't have any bearing on this specific case since the situation arose not out of a random stop but because of a specific crime and a specific description of the perpetrators.

These past atrocities are in the past, not something we dwell on. Do we think about it, sure. It's the same with many black families families and other families around the world whose history has been painful. It happened, it's past, now we move on and make better lives.

I think there is a big difference between putting the past in the past and moving on in the face of present discrimination and profiling.

I've been lurking on this thread for a few days now. I just wanted to hop in and say that I 100% agree with this post. It is time to quit blaming the entirety of whites in the US for what happened in the past. I agree that there is still racism and inequality, however, this goes both ways. There was even more racism and inequality in the 60's then there is now. But the conditions for poor blacks in the US is getting worse instead of better. We have to start thinking about why that is the case and start addressing those issues. I have my own opinions on those causes, but I don't want to get ripped apart so I'll keep them to myself.
I will say, though, I have had to go into areas of Milwaukee for my job that have me shaking in my shoes b/c it is a place that a "white girl" does not belong. The only thing that gives me a thin layer of protection is my social worker badge.

I agree. I think in many ways race is used as a wedge and a distraction from bigger issues behind those deteriorating conditions.

 

[Colleen27]

Double post.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

My post . . .

"Really? I can accept that you might think that such a shooting would be legal. But serving justice? No way . . . There was absolutely no due process!"

Um yeah, I'm aware of what you said - so again: I disagree with your personal definition of "justice". Justice is meted out in many ways - it is not tied exclusively to due process.

To be clear, I'm not saying justice was in fact served in this instance. I'm saying it's one of the possibilities.

 

[asta]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that at the same time that people are discussing the horrible condition of schools in that area that they are calling for spending the money to mic and film every police officer? I would much rather spend my tax dollars on improving the schools. Of course, I see police officers as public servants who have a very tough job trying to protect us from criminals. Do what they say and I don't think you will have a problem with them. And I have taught my children this.

 

[Disneychick75]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that at the same time that people are discussing the horrible condition of schools in that area that they are calling for spending the money to mic and film every police officer? I would much rather spend my tax dollars on improving the schools. Of course, I see police officers as public servants who have a very tough job trying to protect us from criminals. Do what they say and I don't think you will have a problem with them. And I have taught my children this.

"Every time it rains, it rains pennies from heaven
Don't you know each cloud contains pennies from heaven?"

 

[Viva Las Disney]

I saw this on my FB feed (if that makes a difference) and I feel for the guy being interviewed! He's trying to protect a business, but he could easily have been beaten or killed for it. Smart to walk away, but those other folks, my God, how do you reach them?

You don't, you just hope as they mature common sense sinks in.

I've always wondered if the gang members, looters, etc comprehend that they are the reason racism continues. I always find it ironic when gang members complain about racism yet they don't seem to understand it is their own actions (murders, drive by shootings, robberies, etc) that make the front pages of newspapers and TV headlines that are exactly why there is a view that black people are dangerous, murderers, and criminals.

I think one of the best comments I've ever seen about racism was on a Cosby Show documentary, Malcolm-Jamal Warner (Theo) said "I'm very proud to have been a part of that show. It's part of the fibre of American television and even culture for that matter. It showed white America AND black America (dare I say the world) that the black middle class exist. To be on a show that was so entertaining, yet offered social commentary without giving you "social commentary" is quite a feat."

I think people tend to forget that there is a black middle class that are exactly like every other middle class, they work 9-5, take their kids to dance class, help their kids with there homework, etc, etc, etc. The problem is the middle class isn't sexy and doesn't sell papers or ad time so instead of seeing stories about middle class blacks (or whites or any other race) we get wall to wall crime coverage largely dominated by gang violence and crime, it just keeps feeding the negative stereotypes.

 

[Disneychick75]

Tonight on another board that I frequent a poster suggested we watch a 1953 GE theater tv program. It's appropriate, I believe, not just for looking at Mike Brown and Darren Wilson but for the way we look at everyone. Some of you might be familiar with it already. It's called Eye of the Beholder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XYydIDlU2pc

 

[pat fan]

You don't, you just hope as they mature common sense sinks in.

I agree with the sentiment, but those were not children, they were grown. Granted, maturity happens at different rates, but I have two sons and they would never segregate themselves from any other segment of population with such vehemence. I am referring to the quote of one man who asked if the other one "Was for the white man" and that he "Has the devil in him". I know I am only quoting one person, but there were a lot of people in that video who were all behaving that way. "We're gonna kill someone tonight" etc...

It's one reason I disagree with Sharpton etc...He's always hammering how downtrodden and oppressed the black community is. If someone says something enough, eventually you believe it. I was brought up we are all equal, God made us the same and we are all brothers and sisters with bad apples in every bushel regardless of the color.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that at the same time that people are discussing the horrible condition of schools in that area that they are calling for spending the money to mic and film every police officer? I would much rather spend my tax dollars on improving the schools. Of course, I see police officers as public servants who have a very tough job trying to protect us from criminals. Do what they say and I don't think you will have a problem with them. And I have taught my children this.

Different budgets entirely.

Plus Ferguson PD already has the equipment. City govt issue.

Plus the STATE is the one who decided failing schools lose funds. (I disagree with this concept.)

We don't always get to decide where out tax dollars go. But it would be good that instead of making Excellent schools even better by rewarding them with educational extras, that we make sure all schools have the chance to rise to the occasion of excellence. So somewhere a school as "state of the art" this and that while Normandy struggles to have students meet the basics for a diploma.

 

[Disneychick75]

Different budgets entirely.

Plus Ferguson PD already has the equipment. City govt issue.

Plus the STATE is the one who decided failing schools lose funds. (I disagree with this concept.)

We don't always get to decide where out tax dollars go. But it would be good that instead of making Excellent schools even better by rewarding them with educational extras, that we make sure all schools have the chance to rise to the occasion of excellence. So somewhere a school as "state of the art" this and that while Normandy struggles to have students meet the basics for a diploma.

It's more complex than taking money from excellent schools and giving it to failing schools. Again, if the people in the Normandy school district want better schools, they have to become part of the process. Contact school board officials, their legislatures, vote... It also takes parental involvement. Make sure kids are doing schoolwork, studying, attending school,etc.

The group Beyond Housing is working with Normandy to get re-accredited.
http://www.beyondhousing.org/news/n...ducation-and-socio-economic-concerns-9-19-13/