How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[sunshinehighway]

Yes...I have tried here not to call him racist. I am bothered by the dept.'s history of abuse, and by the fact that he shot Brown 7-10 times while Brown was several yards away...that is something that sticks out like a sore thumb if you take the police storyline as 100% factual.

I also don't like his behavior towards Brown's uncle minutes after the shooting when the uncle tried to get to Brown as he lay dead in the road, shoving him back, not letting people check on him, try to render aid.

And the fact that he didn't call an ambulance...that right there makes you wonder.

I am bothered by the 35 feet too. That's the thing that makes me question the shooting.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Its not splitting hairs. Its talking out of both sides of his mouth and adding to confusion and the community's mistrust of police.

The most important thing about the shooting is what was happening at the time of the shooting. You can't shoot someone because of something they did 5, 10, 15 minutes earlier.

I don't see where I claimed a shooting was justified for stealing cigars.


The moments leading to ANY event are quite often relevant even is you do not believe it to be so. Especially if mike Brown was concerned he was about to be apprehended. It could explain his reaction to the officer and willingness to engage in a physical altercation. He was to be starting classes on college on Monday. An arrest would certainly affect that.

While the cop may have been unaware, at the time, of the Robbery, it can be assumed that Mike Brown had no clue.

So what happened before IS relevant. Even more so when his family was saying he would NEVER do anything to anyone. Well, up until the robbery and his physical altercation, maybe that was the case. At that moment, it was rubbish.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Yes...I have tried here not to call him racist. I am bothered by the dept.'s history of abuse, and by the fact that he shot Brown 7-10 times while Brown was several yards away...that is something that sticks out like a sore thumb if you take the police storyline as 100% factual.

Have they released the autopsy results that show how many times he was shot? The ballistics results that show how far away he was when he was shot? The autopsy results that delineate the trajectory of the bullets in Michael Brown's body?

I also don't like his behavior towards Brown's uncle minutes after the shooting when the uncle tried to get to Brown as he lay dead in the road, shoving him back, not letting people check on him, try to render aid.

He was dead - not much aid to be rendered at that point, and I wouldn't want anyone not involved with the investigation stepping into what might be a crime scene.

And the fact that he didn't call an ambulance...that right there makes you wonder.

I haven't seen that claim verified by the police, but I could well have missed it.

 

[pooh4evr]

I don't think any reports have come out saying how many times he was shot, nor that the officer in the video with the uncle was the officer involved. Some are saying the officer's jaw and eye socket were broken- again not confirmed.

I think they need to stop having press conferences until everything is known all of these little ones letting out drips of info is only making everything worse.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I agree 100% that you can't shoot someone for something they did 5, 10, 15 minutes earlier, and I'm not aware of anyone that's claiming that's why he was shot.

However, within hours of the shooting, the narrative had been formed...the police officer was a racist pig that shot down a perfectly innocent teenager that wasn't doing anything wrong...just a gentle giant, going to see Grandma.

The police chief had every right, and I believe an obligation, to correct that narrative. Michael Brown wasn't a gentle giant, as evidenced by his assault on the clerk. He wasn't just an innocent teenager, minding his own business, as evidenced by the video.

I don't understand why it seems to be fine to make baseless accusations about the motives of the police officer, but completely off-limits to show facts about Michael Brown.

My thinking is that at some point one side has to say enough. One said has to say we are no engaging in this anymore and will wait for the investigation to be complete. I hold the chief of police to a higher standard of professional behavior than the community at large or a grieving family.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I am bothered by the 35 feet too. That's the thing that makes me question the shooting.

Have the police released information confirming that the shooting was from 35 feet away?

 

[Suger Mag]

My thinking is that at some point one side has to say enough. One said has to say we are no engaging in this anymore and will wait for the investigation to be complete. I hold the chief of police to a higher standard of professional behavior than the community at large or a grieving family.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I don't think any reports have come out saying how many times he was shot, nor that the officer in the video with the uncle was the officer involved. Some are saying the officer's jaw and eye socket were broken- again not confirmed.

I think they need to stop having press conferences until everything is known all of these little ones letting out drips of info is only making everything worse.

I have read nothing of broken bones. I believe I read his injuries (as stated by the PD) were a swollen cheek (can't remember which side).

 

[sunshinehighway]

Have the police released information confirming that the shooting was from 35 feet away?

I believe so.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I believe so.

All I can find is a statement saying that he died 35 feet from the car.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

Wrong. We have a Constitution that says we can't face legal punishment until convicted of a crime.

Michael Brown wasn't convicted, so he won't face punishment for being a thief, but it doesn't change the fact that he stole those cigars, which by definition, makes him a thief.

Wow. I like how you selectively get to decide who is afforded the "innocent until proven guilty" doctrine. But I'm not going to waste time trying to chip away at your beliefs...we will have to agree to disagree about that.

 

[Disneychick75]

there seem to be 2 groups coming out at night or at least last night- #1 is the peaceful protesters who were doing just that assembling peacefully at the quiktrip, very good "vibe" music, dancing, families, people trying to take back their city streets.
#2 - looters- just a few blocks away 6 stores were being looted, the residents and police were trying to protect the stores, but were called to leave, and let the looters have the stores. - news crews were filming as person after person went in and out of the stores taking liquor, beauty supplies, cash registers, ATMs , 911 calls from the owners were ignored and police cars just drove by.

Now we have store owners vowing to protect their businesses by any means necessary- guns, dogs ...how long until we have an owner shoot a looter and the whole city blows.

If interested- a person called in to a radio show yesterday who is friends with he police officer and gave his version of what happened, I think the show has put out the audio, I dont know how to link it or whatever but it is The Dana Show (Dana Loesch) it is also on facebook, the page is also called The Dana Show.

I have the link in post 616.

There was no reason to release the video... anyone with a whits worth of sense would have told the police chief that it would make things worse... evidence is not tabloid fodder, OF COURSE it should be part of the investigation. But lets be honest about motivation...the video release was done specifically to sway public opinion about the background of the victim... public release was not a critical part of the investigation. The character assassination of the victim is in my opinion, not that disimilar to the "**** shaming" (rymes with "glut shaming") that occurs with victims of sexual assault: "Did you see what was she wearing... she was only a stripper and really was asking for it... did you know she was dating half the school".

Of course I do not agree with looting and rioting, but I understand why it is happening... it is an expression of rage that has been fueled by the actions of the police chief. I feel he has mishandled this situation from the start, and the release of the video had no other purpose than to inflame the situation... it is his job on the line. Coincidence that after his replacement (State Trooper Johnson) comes on the mob job and there is a night of calm, then the local police chief decides lets release the video? I would be willing to bet that the decision to release the video was not discussed with State Trooper Johnson. Local police generally hate it when outside entities... State Troopers, FBI etc... start messing with THEIR jurisdiction.

Bull, there is no excuse for the looting. Protesting I understand. I saw a few minutes ago where business owners say they've had enough and they're moving. Ferguson which looks like a nice community will suffer because of the hooligans.
Umm, as for the sexual abuse victim, comparison, really? Those people have done nothing wrong. Michael Brown allegedly robbed a convenience store using strong arm tactics. The police are not trying to make him look bad, he did that to himself if he is the person in the video pushing on a clerk who appears to be at least a foot shoter than his 8'3".

CNN has an article about last night's events. In it there's something I find somewhat confusing.



That doesn't match the description of the robbery or the information out that his attorney has said Johnson admitted the robbery to police and the FBI.
Here's a link to the article.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/16/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html?c=homepage-t&page=1

A lot of people are wondering about that. Maybe they're trying to avoid more rioting?

you have a typo..."alleged" is not spelled "actually"...sorry, but in America, we have a system that we follow...it is in the Constitution, and while some people still won't accept it, its rights also apply to people like Michael Brown.

That works both ways. People have condemned the police officer without all of the facts.

Its not splitting hairs. Its talking out of both sides of his mouth and adding to confusion and the community's mistrust of police.

The most important thing about the shooting is what was happening at the time of the shooting. You can't shoot someone because of something they did 5, 10, 15 minutes earlier.

Yes, they can. According to the radio interview, Brown was running back towards Wilson who felt threatened because he had just been assaulted by him.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Wow. I like how you selectively get to decide who is afforded the "innocent until proven guilty" doctrine. But I'm not going to waste time trying to chip away at your beliefs...we will have to agree to disagree about that.

It really isn't that difficult. If I reach into your wallet and steal $50, am I a thief?

Or am I only a thief if you call the police, I'm arrested, tried and found guilty?

Your issue seems to be that your are confusing the legal definition, which is only relevant when it comes to punishment, with the reality of the situation.

 

[Laura66]

I take it that you're including yourself in the list of armchair investigators?

And I also call BS - the officer in question has had his motives and character called into question ever since this happened.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Don't want to have video of you robbing a store broadcast all over the world? Don't rob a store.

I totall agree here!

 

[DaretoDis]

You can rest assured that Michael Brown will be named the NAACP's man of the year, and his family will extort millions of $$$ from the police department, and by default the residents of Ferguson, and guess what??? Nothing will change. The Justice Brothers (Al and Jesse) will pack up and look for the next firestorm where they will bring plenty of fuel.

In the interest of full disclosure, I confess I AM a racist. I believe the best qualified person, regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation, etc. should get the job or admission to college, or what ever position they are aspiring to.

 

[OurBigTrip]

In the interest of full disclosure, I confess I AM a racist. I believe the best qualified person, regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation, etc. should get the job or admission to college, or what ever position they are aspiring to.

I agree with the bolded as well, but I'm most assuredly not a racist.

Not sure how you're making that connection.

 

[DaretoDis]

I agree with the bolded as well, but I'm most assuredly not a racist.

Not sure how you're making that connection.

A certain political party equates that description with being a racist, as well as increasing budgets to fight crime.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I agree with the bolded as well, but I'm most assuredly not a racist.

Not sure how you're making that connection.

Its just pot stiring.

 

[sunshinehighway]

A certain political party equates that description with being a racist, as well as increasing budgets to fight crime.

Please don't bring that into this thread.

 

[nugov2]

Very true...since the chief later admitted that the shooter was not aware of the theft, it had no relevance, he was simply trying to create an image of Michael Brown. Since Brown was killed, he can't be charged, since he can't be charged, he is not guilty...period, that's how our system works...sometimes it sucks, like when Ken Lay died before being sentenced and his family got to keep the millions of dollars he stole as the head of Enron...releasing the video was a petty act of evil...would be the same if Anonymous released the shooter's porn browsing history from the night before...only serves to taint the character of the person.

It is clear from the department history (such as the 2009 case of beating an innocent man then charging him for bleeding on their uniforms) that the Feds need to sweep through the Ferguson Police Department like Sherman marching to the Sea...but with less restraint.

I disagree, it had relevance. It shows the state of mind that Brown could have been in when stopped. It shows why it makes sense that he was struggling with the officer. Saying he was just walking down the road and the officer stopped him and a struggle began seems very unlikely. Knowing he committed a crime before he was stopped makes the scenario very likely that he would assault the officer and the struggle could have happened, even if the officer wasn't aware of the crime. It is also so that all the people saying an innocent boy who has done no wrong was struck down, might not be completely true. Pictures of him with guns and liquor IMO are not the same b/c everyone takes pictures that may not be a true representation of who they really are to be funny or whatever. Not saying that just because he committed a crime that is exactly what happened, but all that information needs to be looked at to get a true picture. The family and community members were saying that we had the true picture of Brown...innocent, college boy, gentle giant, when in reality he did assault an innocent and rob them. I personally don't think the officers name should be publicly released. Knowing who did it changes nothing other than the fact that his family...who we know are innocent are now going to be in hiding. Unfortunately with the way the media is today...everything is for the public to see. I just think people need to realize that nobody knows what happened and both sides rallying have a potential to be wrong. I wonder with all the attention and negative press if we will ever really know the true story.