How do you handle the Holidays when...

[cabanafrau]

I just wanted to give a different perspective - I didn't get that she thought it unacceptably rejected, just that she was exceptionally sad it was rejected. For me, something like that is so full of wonderful family-time memories, ones that can't be repeated after this year, that I would do just about anything to go experience it one more time. Maybe she has special memories the way I do about it...

That's all well and good, but what's the priority, attempting to re-live family memories or having an ongoing close relationship to make more wonderful family memories? I don't know about anybody else, but I'll take option B, every day, all day and twice on Sunday.

 

[NewRVLady]

. Sis want to plan a family trip...all expenses paid. On a cruise. Sound good? To her it does, and she is furious that her "gift" has been unanimously turned down by all four.

Why you ask? One son works in Washington DC in an extremely difficult job and is pursuing his Masters. He really cannot get away and if he could a cruise would not be his choice. The other son is a deck hand on a crab fishing boat. Yes...just like deadliest catch, but in the Atlantic. The last thing he will ever do for a vacation in get on another boat. Her oldest daughter's fiance is sea sick The last time they tried she was like death the whole time. My niece asked if there was anything else they could do. No. The youngest is afraid of the water and will not go.

So I asked my sister.....anything else you all could do? No, she wants a cruise.
OP- stop being my sister. I know that you love your family, it is so clear in every post. However love is not conditional. Gifts are just that, gifts. When you gift someone, you need to make sure who the gift is for...you or the person who is the recipient. Just step back and let you son come to you, be kind to his friend, an know that if the relationship develops into something more serious, you will have another son.

Wow-Nancy-great post
I was actually laughing about the son on the Boat-and why she cant see that a Cruise is the LAST thing he'd want to do-LOL
Dh would never in a million years do a cruise-many people hate the idea of one.

 

[gwynne]

I just wanted to give a different perspective - I didn't get that she thought it unacceptably rejected, just that she was exceptionally sad it was rejected. For me, something like that is so full of wonderful family-time memories, ones that can't be repeated after this year, that I would do just about anything to go experience it one more time. Maybe she has special memories the way I do about it...

If you (or OP) wants to go and enjoy, go! Make it a special solo trip, or take a friend. It only gets sticky when trying to involve adult children who aren't interested.

That's all well and good, but what's the priority, attempting to re-live family memories or having an ongoing close relationship to make more wonderful family memories? I don't know about anybody else, but I'll take option B, every day, all day and twice on Sunday.

Yup. And I would add that making new memories is lovely, too. I have wonderful memories of my kids growing up, but I also enjoy their adult years. I get some pretty funny texts these days. I love their senses of humor, and that they share that with me.

By staying connected in an easy sort of way it makes it fun when we get together. I try to remember to have reasonable expectations, and go with the flow. It works for us.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am going to apologize to everyone for taking this thread off-topic a bit.
However, LuvsJack, I am going to, just this once, with no further comment, respond to you and your personal (and negative) comments directed to me, that do not really add anything further to the OP's thread.

YES, I do have a son.
YES, indeed, he has said and done a few things that were not only disappointing, but actually 'hurtful' to me. That happens sometimes with teens and young adults.
That does not mean, in ANY way, whatsoever, that I try to manipulate the situation and make it all HIS fault, by becoming so mortally wounded and hurt. (FALLING ON KNIVES) Trying to impose GUILT and RESPONSIBILITY on him.

Another person is never, ever, responsible for fulfilliing another persons individual personal wishes and taking responsibility for anther person's issues.

And, to be completely and totally blunt and honest. even at THIS point, as a teenaged young man, and especially if my son were a grown adult responsible man (nealy 30 years old) I can see absolutely NO reason that I would even be disappointed, much less 'hurt' and 'upset', (words used by the OP) or offended, because he and his partner did not happen to choose to take a certain getaway trip with me and my husband. The very idea just blows my mind.

In fact, I will tell you this.... DH and I just made reservations for a very quick (one or two night) getaway over the Holidays. And, it looks like DS will not be included. Yes, I could try to talk him into coming. (because it is at holiday time, and because it is 'family'...) And yes he would feel obligated, and bored, and perhaps even uncomfortable on this particular type of getaway.

I haven't given it a second thought or even batted an eyelash.

 

[littleblackegg]

So why do you judge and fault her?

She said he TOLD her that he has cut ties with his family and she doesn't know why but suspects outside influences. Is it that hard for us to just believe someone when they state something? Maybe he is listening to people that do not have a clue what they are talking about. Maybe he has decided he needs to "cut the apron strings" when there are none to be cut. Maybe one of his friends is not getting acceptance from his own family so has convinced her ds that he won't get acceptance from his. Maybe he is being a selfish 20 something that thinks the world revolves around him and his mom will be there when HE gets ready for her. It could be any million and one things but the automatic assumption here is that the OP did something to cause all this.

When you judge or fault someone, you place some sort of value on their behaviors, or connect their behaviors to some sort of consequence that could have been avoided. I see people really wanting to understand the entire context of the OP's concerns with the upcoming holidays. There is really no way to understand or offer strength and hope without grasping the nature of the conflict. She has let us know through telling language and avoidance that her son's relationship with another man is handled very differently than her other son's relationship with a woman, without giving us much understanding as to why. In a therapeutic environment, we call this cognitive dissonance, and it speaks to a high degree of conflict with one's own feelings, thoughts and values. I for one feel deeply sad for her and her family, but asking for details and clarification is not placing blame. Most of the time, there is no blame that can truly be placed in these situations. There is healing, however.

 

[littleblackegg]

Which is why I repeatedly use words like "could" and "if", but you seem to want to ignore that. It's not just the political affiliation alone; I agree that would be biased. It's everything taken together. That political leaning, the concerted effort to hide her son's sexuality, words like "the other family" and "indoctrination", her son's SO turning away from her at the store, being asked point blank if her son's homosexuality was part of the issue and not responding - all of it paints a certain picture. That picture may be wrong. But I don't think it's unreasonable to draw some conclusions based on what's been posted.

"My son is gay and lives with his boyfriend. We have no issue with that and have told him so, so I don't think that has anything to do with why he's limiting contact, at least as far as I can tell". Wouldn't that have been much easier? Of course, you couldn't say that if it wasn't true and then you're back to avoiding the real issue. I'm a pragmatic person and just don't understand the point of being surreptitious about this. If you truly want to know how to handle it and stop from being heart-broken, that is.

Astute observation without being harsh or judgmental in any way.

 

[Dis703]

I'm so sorry that this is hurtful. I think all the mommies on here understand. We love seeing our kids little and grown and they don't always have us at the top of their 'want to see' list.

Honestly, all you can do is let him go, give him some room, and pray he eventually sees your home as a nice place to celebrate the holidays. Sometimes, it might be a trip or a new spouse's family....there's always something to come in and change the variables. Please try to keep from putting any manipulation at all in your response. You'll know when you are doing it. Bless him and let him know he will be missed. Say it with love. He knows how you feel.

Then invite someone over who doesn't have a family and fill your heart with the love that comes from giving!

I think this is a great idea. A few years ago when my twins were babies my parents (who moved 2 1/2 hours away) decided holidays had to be at their home and they wouldn't come out for the holidays anymore. Some of our family still here wasn't willing to travel for various reasons like young kids, working the next morning or even that night, etc. So I hosted dinner for my brother and his wife and my sister, and I decided to invite a friend of mine who lived next door. She and her husband were from Japan and had no family here in the US. They had been here for a few years by then but never experienced a traditional Thanksgiving dinner.

I was upset at first about such a small gathering in comparison to our typical holidays (I'm one of 9 children so it's usually a big group) but I have to say we had the most fabulous Thanksgiving. It was so much more relaxed than normal and everyone was just happy to be there enjoying one another.

It's hard when things start to change, but you can still have a wonderful holiday.

 

[littleblackegg]

So why do you judge and fault her?

She said he TOLD her that he has cut ties with his family and she doesn't know why but suspects outside influences. Is it that hard for us to just believe someone when they state something? Maybe he is listening to people that do not have a clue what they are talking about. Maybe he has decided he needs to "cut the apron strings" when there are none to be cut. Maybe one of his friends is not getting acceptance from his own family so has convinced her ds that he won't get acceptance from his. Maybe he is being a selfish 20 something that thinks the world revolves around him and his mom will be there when HE gets ready for her. It could be any million and one things but the automatic assumption here is that the OP did something to cause all this.

This is how humans process information and communicate with other people. Whenever I hear anyone talk about how we shouldn't make assumptions or draw conclusions, I remind them that the brain operates with incomplete data all day long. Assumptions, guesses, ideas, incomplete conclusions-these are the foundations of how we function every day. We use our own memories, experiences, expertise and learning, add it to the information we take in through our senses, ask for more information as needed, and draw the conclusions needed to make decisions. Sometimes this process takes seconds, sometimes days. However, you can bet we are all always making assumptions and seeking more information. The human brain is an amazing machine.

 

[luvsJack]

I am going to apologize to everyone for taking this thread off-topic a bit.
However, LuvsJack, I am going to, just this once, with no further comment, respond to you and your personal (and negative) comments directed to me, that do not really add anything further to the OP's thread.

YES, I do have a son.
YES, indeed, he has said and done a few things that were not only disappointing, but actually 'hurtful' to me. That happens sometimes with teens and young adults.
That does not mean, in ANY way, whatsoever, that I try to manipulate the situation and make it all HIS fault, by becoming so mortally wounded and hurt. (FALLING ON KNIVES) Trying to impose GUILT and RESPONSIBILITY on him.

Another person is never, ever, responsible for fulfilliing another persons individual personal wishes and taking responsibility for anther person's issues.

And, to be completely and totally blunt and honest. even at THIS point, as a teenaged young man, and especially if my son were a grown adult responsible man (nealy 30 years old) I can see absolutely NO reason that I would even be disappointed, much less 'hurt' and 'upset', (words used by the OP) or offended, because he and his partner did not happen to choose to take a certain getaway trip with me and my husband. The very idea just blows my mind.

In fact, I will tell you this.... DH and I just made reservations for a very quick (one or two night) getaway over the Holidays. And, it looks like DS will not be included. Yes, I could try to talk him into coming. (because it is at holiday time, and because it is 'family'...) And yes he would feel obligated, and bored, and perhaps even uncomfortable on this particular type of getaway.

I haven't given it a second thought or even batted an eyelash.

Woah, woah, woah. I did not mean anything negative or personal. EVERYONE'S child has said or done something hurtful to them. Some on purpose, some without any intention at all. It happens. That was not meant to say your child is any better or worse than anyone else's.

You take exception to the fact that the OP's feelings were hurt because her sons could not go with them to see the Osbourne lights. I was simply trying to point out to you that the word "hurt" does not mean that she is some controlling witch that won't even try to be flexible or do things differently for her grown sons. Just that she was hurt. If that is something that would not bother you, fine. But just maybe there is something in your life that your child will someday want to discontinue that will hurt your feelings. It has happened with each of mine, too. That's just the way of the world and with kid's growing up. My daughter is 17 and a senior this year. We are talking a group of her friends and her to Universal for graduation. And when we get there and she rides the biggest roller coaster she can find and does not want to ride with her father, its going to hurt his feelings a little bit. Will he dwell on it for year's to come? No. But that doesn't change the description of his feelings from hurt to just disappointed. Heck even he knows its "going to hurt a little" (his words).

I only said something because you are nitpicking her words which is not helping. She should be able to express that her feelings were hurt without being attacked for it. Believe it or not, my comments were not about you but about what you were saying to/about the OP. Maybe it blows your mind that she wanted her grown son and his partner to go with them to wdw, but for some families those kind of trips are common. My own sister has trips like that every year. Her grown daughters and 4 grandchildren (two who are teens) all went to Germany last year. If one of their dd's or teen grandchildren had chosen not to go on that fabulous trip that was planned, I can see dsis being hurt by their offer being turned down. She would have moved on, and they would have still had a fabulous time on the trip. Doesn't mean that if someone asked her how she felt she wouldn't say "it hurt" but. . .

Her feelings were hurt. She obviously got over it as she is now trying to plan Christmas. Trying to say that she is manipulating or "falling on knives" isn't exactly helping her.

 

[ahutton]

OP - Bottom line is this... I'm so sorry you are hurting and that you have difficult dynamics going on. As ready as you may be to move through it, they have to be ready to as well. For everyone's sake, I hope you get there and that you can find common ground and enjoy the time you have together.

 

[VandVsmama]

I've read all 17 pages of this thread and here are my thoughts in no particular order:

1. I, too, am a parent, but my kids are still minors (they're 7 and 9).
2. It wasn't that long ago that I was in your DS's shoes...trying to figure out how to introduce my boyfriend to my parents. It's really stressful. It's even more stressful when you get wind either directly or indirectly that 1 or both of your parents doesn't really like your SO.
3. It's also hard for the parents, too. My DM had a really hard time coping with the fact that I was making very different choices in life than she would have chosen for me.
4. Just be careful about attributing the things in your DS's behavior that you don't like to his SO.
5. Even if you haven't said so directly to him, your DS already knows that you think these changes are because of "outside influences."
6. Your DS might have good reasons for only being able to spend 3 hours with you on Christmas Day. Perhaps all of those reasons have nothing to do with you.
7. Perhaps your DS is really nervous about bringing his SO to meet you and spend a lot of time with you & the rest of your family. ESPECIALLY if DS's SO is a same-sex partner...and ESPECIALLY if there is ANYONE ELSE in attendance on Christmas Day (especially extended family) who might in any way, shape, or form be perceived as being against same-sex relationships. In other words, MAYBE HE'S SCARED!
8. Yes, if he's living with his SO, then it IS more than "just dating." It means that they are pretty serious about each other. This also means that bringing his SO home to Mom is really really nerve-wracking.
9. You are lucky that you're getting 3 hours. You will never again have a Christmas Day like it used to be when your kids were minors and both still living at home. Your family dynamic has changed. Your DS and his SO (assuming it's a serious relationship) are a family unit and you now are extended family. Whatever time your DS gives you is a blessing.
10. Don't rearrange your entire day based on when the Prodigal Son might return, especially if he hasn't given you an estimated time of arrival. Do your Christmas Day as you want and whenever he shows up, he shows up.
11. How do you figure out the right gift to give to his SO when you don't know anything about what the SO likes? Well, you could ask your DS. If your DS & SO enjoy traveling together, there's a whole host of travel-related gifts that you could consider. If DS is a foodie and he & SO like to cook together, you could give SO a "dinner and a movie" themed sort of gift. For example, stuff to bake cookies or something and a DVD that they might like. Or if you want both DS & his SO to feel accepted & welcome, give the 2 of them a gift certificate to a nice restaurant in their area and gift certificates to a movie theater (another version of the "dinner and a movie" theme).

One of THE hardest things that my DM (who is now deceased) struggled with was realizing a few things about her kids growing up:

• the adult child might have very different opinions about what is fun.
• what was a lot of fun in the past when they were kids might now be a real chore and torturous.
• adult child & his/her SO will be creating their OWN immediate family traditions.
• going on even a short whirlwind trip ANYWHERE with your SO & your parents is REALLY STRESSFUL!!!

Take the proposed trip to go see the Osborne lights 1 last time. Sure, it sounded like a great idea! Especially since your family had seen them so many times when your kids were younger and you'd had so much fun doing it. What better way to spend lots of quality time with your DS's SO than doing that?

Consider it from a different point of view. I'm not saying that this is your DS's point of view. It's just another perspective to consider....
Maybe he's not sure yet whether you are really accepting of his sexual orientation. And even if his SO is female, it can still be really nerve-wracking anyway. If I was in your DS's shoes, there is NO WAY that I would want to spend hours on a plane and hours and hours at WDW with my SO and immediate family. I would rather have a root canal. I would rather take a long walk off a short pier. No way. Too stressful. I would rather gradually introduce my SO to my immediate family and test the waters a few times and then maybe a couple of years down the road, we could explore doing something like that.

If your DS **IS** gay, then just love him as you have since he was a little kid. It's easier to hold onto a handful of sand with an open palm than with a closed fist. Your DS is spreading his wings and learning how to fly. This is a new relationship dynamic with you and he is still figuring it out.

Trust me...3 hours on Xmas Day is a gift. My dad is so horrible and self absorbed that there is no way on God's green earth that I will ever spend another holiday with him. I refuse to subject myself or my kids to his behavior. My dad is lucky that I call him once a month. He is lucky that I talk to him at all.

 

[manning]

I knew someone who had 4 children. When she died and it came time to split the estate. The one who never was around asked the lawyer where his share was.
The lawyer said divided up equally with the other 3 siblings. Talk about having the last say. He didn't remember her so she didn't remember him. Final justice.

 

[TLSnell1981]

When you judge or fault someone, you place some sort of value on their behaviors, or connect their behaviors to some sort of consequence that could have been avoided. I see people really wanting to understand the entire context of the OP's concerns with the upcoming holidays. There is really no way to understand or offer strength and hope without grasping the nature of the conflict. She has let us know through telling language and avoidance that her son's relationship with another man is handled very differently than her other son's relationship with a woman, without giving us much understanding as to why. In a therapeutic environment, we call this cognitive dissonance, and it speaks to a high degree of conflict with one's own feelings, thoughts and values. I for one feel deeply sad for her and her family, but asking for details and clarification is not placing blame. Most of the time, there is no blame that can truly be placed in these situations. There is healing, however.

I really don't believe, that OP expected or wanted a DIS therapy session. A little kindness and/or compassion can be quite comforting in a stressful moment. i.e. "I'm sorry you are hurt, disappointed, etc" is often sufficient. Unfortunately, the opposite frequently happens on this board.

 

[Skywalker]

I really don't believe, that OP expected or wanted a DIS therapy session. A little kindness and/or compassion can be quite comforting in a stressful moment. i.e. "I'm sorry you are hurt, disappointed, etc" is often sufficient. Unfortunately, the opposite frequently happens on this board.

Well now THAT would have been an extremely short thread lol. If this was a place where people did nothing but pat each other on the back and spew platitudes, I think people would get bored and move on. I came here because of Disney initially, I stay around because of the great mix of personalities, perspectives, and discussions. It's a place where people will be honest in a way that your family and friends won't. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Well now THAT would have been an extremely short thread lol. If this was a place where people did nothing but pat each other on the back and spew platitudes, I think people would get bored and move on. I came here because of Disney initially, I stay around because of the great mix of personalities, perspectives, and discussions. It's a place where people will be honest in a way that your family and friends won't. Nothing wrong with that.

There's a time and place for everything. Sometimes, it's okay to pat each other on the back and spew platitudes. Not every thread needs to be a beat down. JMHO

 

[littleblackegg]

I really don't believe, that OP expected or wanted a DIS therapy session. A little kindness and/or compassion can be quite comforting in a stressful moment. i.e. "I'm sorry you are hurt, disappointed, etc" is often sufficient. Unfortunately, the opposite frequently happens on this board.

As is the nature of humans. This is hardly unfortunate. Humans grow, develop, learn, and create based on their need to understand. It's an admirable quality.

 

[littleblackegg]

There's a time and place for everything. Sometimes, it's okay to pat each other on the back and spew platitudes. Not every thread needs to be a beat down. JMHO

What does "spew platitudes" mean?

 

[TLSnell1981]

What does "spew platitudes" mean?

Just quoting PP.

 

[TLSnell1981]

As is the nature of humans. This is hardly unfortunate. Humans grow, develop, learn, and create based on their need to understand. It's an admirable quality.

Ah, but you must consider the sources.

 

[kaytieeldr]

There's a time and place for everything. Sometimes, it's okay to pat each other on the back and spew platitudes. Not every thread needs to be a beat down. JMHO

Pointless in a thread asking for advice.