How 'bout that Gentrification?

[skylizard]

Tiny. Huge. Who cares in regards to the topic of gentrification.

 

[JanaDee]

Please. It had 5 bedrooms! My home doesn't have 5 bedrooms. That's huge.

Five bedrooms for how many people? It is all relative to how many people lived there.

It was just brought up to .

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Please. It had 5 bedrooms! My home doesn't have 5 bedrooms. That's huge.

Neither does mine, but I do know when we have those "how big is your house?" threads, mine at 1,480 sq ft is consistently among the smallest. And I have another 1.480 in basement. Probably a lot more space in total than that apartment.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

In the context of anywhere that is one huge apartment. It's bigger than most homes in my area. But for NYC that is one huge apartment. No two ways about it. You can't have it both ways.

As for gentrification, here's what I don't understand. I can remember people on the news crying that their neighborhoods are all but forgotten. That no one puts any money, police, businesses, into their neighborhoods and doesn't give them a chance. So now people are putting money in, businesses are moving in and everyone is crying that they are being pushed out. So what's it gonna be? Kind of like the apartment post -- you either want money and businesses or you don't. You either have a huge apartment or you don't. But you can't have it both ways. Do people think money is going to be poured into their neighborhoods and no one is going to want a return on their investment.

Spike Lee is an idiot. He's making money hand over fist, profiting and gentrifying right along with the best of them, then screaming it's discrimination.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Five bedrooms for how many people? It is all relative to how many people lived there.

It was just brought up to .

No I think it was brought up to show hypocrisy, kind of like Spike Lee.

 

[hopemax]

Neither does mine, but I do know when we have those "how big is your house?" threads, mine at 1,480 sq ft is consistently among the smallest. And I have another 1.480 in basement. Probably a lot more space in total than that apartment.

I'll make you feel better. Ours is 936 sq feet, with 936 feet of basement space. We do have 4 dedicated bedrooms (3 up, one down), but there is space in the basement that if a family needed it, they could put in French doors and create a 5th bedroom, although it would have no closet. The bedrooms are really small though. If I had 1480 per level, I think I would feel we had a mansion!

 

[Art 1]

Spike Lee put his foot in his (arguably potty-) mouth Tuesday night when he went on a rant against gentrification in Brooklyn and the Bronx. (I have to agree somewhat about the Columbus-Syndrome remark, though -- civilization doesn't "discover" a place if it has already been inhabited for time out of memory.)

This follows demonstrations in the Bay Area around the so-called "Google Buses" that take wealthy residents who are employed in Silicon Vally back and forth to work (and which were using the city bus lanes and but stops without contributing to the cost of their upkeep.) Locsl working-class San Franciscans are angry that these folks are driving up rents in their neighborhoods when they don't work anywhere nearby.

Lee's remarks were especially ironic because he has been a landlord for quite a while now in Brooklyn, and has flipped a number of properties for profit. He is looking at it primarily from a racial POV, (which isn't surprising, given who he is and how he makes his living), but is there more to this issue than that? Is is really more about class? About culture? (Lee pointed out that his father, a professional Bassist, has been practicing at home for 46 years, but last year, for the first time, new neighbors complained to the police about the noise associated with the music.)

Where I live we had a major influx of folks from a nation in Eastern Europe a couple of decades ago. They have been very entreprenurial, and they have caused a fair bit of gentrification here, though not on a NYC-like scale (they are not so rich that they are driving home prices beyond the reach of the middle class, and most of them actually remain working class.) However, somewhat like what is happening in Brooklyn's Williamsburg (which has been primarily populated by Orthodox Jews since not long after the Civil War), they have a particular culture and religion, and there have been clashes over that (especially their love of building backyard smokehouses used to make sausage.)

So ... is gentrification as bad as it is good? Is it good? Is it bad? Where does it go wrong? What makes for a good gentrification situation, if such a thing exists?

Come on ... Discuss!

Gentrification is good, it is making a bad area better. That's a good thing.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'll make you feel better. Ours is 936 sq feet, with 936 feet of basement space. We do have 4 dedicated bedrooms (3 up, one down), but there is space in the basement that if a family needed it, they could put in French doors and create a 5th bedroom, although it would have no closet. The bedrooms are really small though. If I had 1480 per level, I think I would feel we had a mansion!

It felt like that when we moved in - we were in a 980 sq ft mobile home before this



Back on track, we have a small town not far from here - Hermann, MO. There's really nothing there save for tourism. It's home to Missouri's largest wineries, sits right on the Missouri River, and there is a connection to a LONG bike trail. The Dierbergs own a very successful chain of groceries in STL. They've "discovered" Hermann and are pouring money into the town hand over fist. And the thing is, their efforts aren't bringing in different people than all the other attractions there. They're just bringing MORE and at different times of the year. The local businesses are thrilled, but of course the peanut gallery at the diner has plenty to say about how "bad" it is

 

[Cowboysrule]

I don't see the conflict. "Tiny" compared to a house, "huge" compared to a typical NYC apt. Within the context of the individual threads, the terms are relative.

Compared to houses

"Yet I also did not worry about gunshots in my Harlem apartment that was bigger than most houses."

 

[ilovemk76]

sorry schmeck, I love ya but this article is for the birds.

I was born and raised in Harlem. 153rd and riverside drive. and believe me when ole gentrification came to down, all heck broke out.

Here in the nutshell is what happen to my building.

My building was an old prewar building, meaning it was big and had some serious archeticual (sp) designs. huge lobby, winding staircases, iron works molding the works. anyhoo most of the tenants were what we call in NY rent control.
bottom line when the owners of the building found out he could get upwards to 4K a month for units that were now getting 1500 month. well let the shenanigans begin. My apartment 10d was huge, back in the day you had extended family living together. so the apartment I grew up in was 5 bedroom 3 baths etc. Now granted my grandparents lived with me but in NY apartment scene it was big.

long story short, it took us 2 years, organizing a tenant rights association, rallying in public and suing that sucker before he finally conceded that maybe he was breaking the law.

Now if you are an owner you may not be forced to move but if you rent,
gentrification most definitely kicks you out faster than you can sneeze.

Now let's look at 125th street. famous ave, home of the apollo theater. tons of small businesses, minority owned. what happens when starbucks opens up? Very easy, the independant small business guy is gone, what building owner is going to allow him to stay when he can triple the rent and allow a chain to come in?

LOL last time I was visiting family there are now about 4 starbucks on one avenue.

Now I haven't listen to spikes rant, If I can't listen to you for more than 2 minutes without the f-bomb going off, I'm not listening.

Poor little rich girl. My Great-Aunt lived in NYC, in a pre-war building. She did not have 5 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. They had 1 bathroom for the entire floor. Yes, it was a community bathroom. That was very common in those buildings, not 5 bedrooms and 3 baths! She never got an in-apartment bathroom, due to the stupid rent control. Why would a landlord make the apartment nicer and then not get repaid for the improvements. It was also two bedrooms.

I remember you telling us how poor you were growing up.

I also remember the 7 figure a year family that could not afford a condo in Philly, due to the million dollar price-tag.

 

[OceanAnnie]

A rising tide lifts all boats.

 

[lisaviolet]

I'll make you feel better. Ours is 936 sq feet, with 936 feet of basement space. We do have 4 dedicated bedrooms (3 up, one down), but there is space in the basement that if a family needed it, they could put in French doors and create a 5th bedroom, although it would have no closet. The bedrooms are really small though. If I had 1480 per level, I think I would feel we had a mansion!

And I will make you feel better - I live in just over 400 square feet (no basement) and a DVC one bedroom more than doubles my living space on vacation.

And love it by the way. Even with houses, I prefer small. Location is everything to me.

As for the gentrification issue, I honestly think at times it's unfairly vilified. There is/was a definite ability for those who are not well off by any means, ie. me, to get in as these neighbourhoods as they are in flux. It's not like the opportunity was not there. I bought my first condo at such a low price because it was during a time when people didn't understand that downtown would go through a boom (late 90s) and in an area where there were drugs and prostitution at one end and more affluent dwellers to the south. My mortgage/maintenance/taxes were less than many rents and that includes geared to income rates for our city rentals. But then again I never bought over my means.

I actually did get shut out of my own neighbourhood - long story (obviously I could have just stayed as can many owners and often here those renting) - because of gentrification and I don't have any bad feelings, besides "crap!", about that like gentrification has done wrong by me or something. It it what it is. I don't understand the alternative to what happens. It's a natural process in my opinion and a very fascinating one to watch. Because I get shut out due to my financial means am I supposed to be angry?

At myself?

But then again, we do very well at looking after the poor in the city - well maybe not very is not realistic but good programs. And even that affluent downtown neighbourhood had mixed land use planning. You wouldn't even know what buildings are geared to income, low income or market value at times. The neighbourhood was featured in Bowling For Columbine, one of Michael Moore's movies, as an example of how low income planning does not have to be an awful exercise and can work out. We do have areas of almost fortress like low income buildings but we do have a lot of successful mixed use - where the areas can gentrify and those people do not get displaced. It can work for a variety of incomes. Less so over time, but some chances still.

I simply don't see it as a bad thing even when I'm on the outside looking in. But maybe living in a lot of mixed income neighbourhoods softens my outlook.

 

[CPT Tripss]

A rising tide lifts all boats.

Except when the assessed value of a long term owner occupied home results in the taxes skyrocketing and becoming unaffordable. The moneyed speculators know how desperate the owner is the boat doesn't rise.

 

[CaliBear]

Except when the assessed value of a long term owner occupied home results in the taxes skyrocketing and becoming unaffordable. The moneyed speculators know how desperate the owner is the boat doesn't rise.

Another exception: when house flippers lowball prices to take advantage of homeowners who have not been able to afford keeping their now historic homes in pristine condition.

The neighborhood changing is part of life. It is the parasitic economics I see going on that inevitably wind up with the poor being forced to yet another depressed area- one that does not have all the benefits people are claiming comes from gentrification.

 

[nooneshome]

Spike Lee is a race hustler. He crossed the line when he posted that address during the Zimmerman ordeal.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Except when the assessed value of a long term owner occupied home results in the taxes skyrocketing and becoming unaffordable. The moneyed speculators know how desperate the owner is the boat doesn't rise.

Just depends on your POV. Could mean you get priced out of your neighborhood, but if that means you can pocket the cash and get a bigger, better home elsewhere and keep some of that cash? Some would say that's at the minimum a silver lining, others an outright blessing.

Either way, the people moving in and cleaning up the neighborhood aren't responsible for rising taxes. The gov't is.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Sure, long term residents get cash when they get bought out. But, too frequently not enough to move up, and there is no guarantee they are young enough and with enough income to get a mortgage. Government tax policies and tax incentives do a lot to drive gentrification.

 

[OceanAnnie]

How does anyone propose to limit change? More regulations? Sounds like some people are all for the improvements but not the change that comes along with it.
You can't have it both ways.

 

[Art 1]

Maybe a few have to suffer for the good of all, just the way it is, always has been, always will be. Just don't be the few, that's all.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Maybe a few have to suffer for the good of all, just the way it is, always has been, always will be. Just don't be the few, that's all.

These days it seems the other way around.