How are we not more outraged about these shootings?

[dadtoagirl03]

I don't think you are taking into consideration the fact that in our country 77% of the population is white and 13% is black. Yet, 34% of the deaths were black, not 13%.

It's also a proven fact that blacks commit crime at a higher rate that whites do in this county. If the crime rate was equal the 13 % vs. 34% argument would be valid. Due to the difference in the crime rate it's not a valid argument. If you have more criminal interaction with law enforcement there is greater chance for "bad" things to happen.

Here'e the DOJ info. for 2014 before the accusations of me being racist start.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-43

 

[MariMama]

Is that the one where he was shot by his father??

Yes.

 

[CPanther95]

Is that the one where he was shot by his father??

There are no parallels between someone accidentally shot at a gun range and what happened here. That one was an accident - accidents will happen - this wasn't an accident. It was likely a tragic mistake that the officer regrets, but you don't accidentally draw your weapon and fire, and hit, your target 4 times (or even once).

 

[Shanti]

Another police officer shoots a black man last night and it's barely even mentioned on the news. I had to look it up online and couldn't help but cry when I watched the video. I know police officers have a difficult job and I respect them for the job they do. It's just so heartbreaking that this keeps happening. I don't know what the solution is. I think if I were black I wouldn't carry a gun because even possessing one seems to be enough to get you shot. And it looks like it's probably a good idea to video everything. I know that police probably interact with people hundreds of thousands of times per day and nothing bad happens. It's just really upsetting when something like this happens.

I am unhappy about police brutality in general, and the unfair targeting of blacks by many police.

 

[gwynne]

There are no parallels between someone accidentally shot at a gun range and what happened here. That one was an accident - accidents will happen - this wasn't an accident. It was likely a tragic mistake that the officer regrets, but you don't accidentally draw your weapon and fire, and hit, your target 4 times (or even once).

I believe his very young life had value. I so wish he had been fishing, tossing a football, even in the family room playing video games.
I don't see any good reason he was there at all. I realize others see it differently.

 

[CPanther95]

I believe his very young life had value. I so wish he had been fishing, tossing a football, even in the basement playing video games.
I don't see any good reason he was there at all. I realize others see it differently.

Gun ranges and shooting sports are a lot of fun. So is swimming - despite the risk of drowning. Just need to be safe to try and minimize accidents.

But we don't need a thread for every accident or we'd have 38,000 threads a year just about someone that accidentally poisoned themselves.

 

[mnrose]

I see what you're saying, but if you look at it that way...wouldn't having the mindset to take out your phone to document the situation be rational thought? It looks to me like she was thinking rationally and quite logically. Documenting what happened after the shooting and protecting herself and her child was smart. It just came off as extremely cold and indifferent towards the man in the process.

Reports were that she was TOLD to stay away from her boyfriend. She did what she could. Which was document it so the world would know. She wasn't allowed to comfort him.

 

[mnrose]

FYI- Minnesota does not require cops to wear cameras so there is no additional footage.

That's changing, but too slowly to help this man.

 

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

There are no parallels between someone accidentally shot at a gun range and what happened here. That one was an accident - accidents will happen - this wasn't an accident. It was likely a tragic mistake that the officer regrets, but you don't accidentally draw your weapon and fire, and hit, your target 4 times (or even once).

I'm not saying there was, I was wondering if I had missed another one in the news or if this one was it. Which is why all my post said was:
Is that the one where he was shot by his father??

 

[CPanther95]

That's changing, but too slowly to help this man.

I would hope that even if the officer was wearing a camera, it wouldn't have helped this man. Otherwise, the suggestion is that the officer did this intentionally only because he thought he could get away with it.

 

[CPanther95]

I'm not saying there was, I was wondering if I had missed another one in the news or if this one was it. Which is why all my post said was:
Is that the one where he was shot by his father??

Didn't mean to actually address your response, just the original post. Truth be told, I looked for the post you quoted, but couldn't find it.

 

[mnrose]

I would hope that even if the officer was wearing a camera, it wouldn't have helped this man. Otherwise, the suggestion is that the officer did this intentionally only because he thought he could get away with it.

It didn't help either one of them. A body camera, were the officer wearing one, could have shown that his actions were reasonable....or that there was some threat. We don't ever definitively know now, will we? There will be those who will blame the officer and those that will blame the man who was shot. We do have an eyewitness, but I have a feeling that people inclined to believe this is justified will dismiss her point of view. Sigh. I wish there were body cameras. I think they help both sides.

The fact is that some cops lie. Not all. Probably only a tiny minority. But, they are out there. Definitely. Witness the Chicago case from 2014...where a 5 or 6 cops filed statements saying one thing and the video tape released a year later showed EXACTLY the opposite....the youth was walking away, not lunging toward ANYONE. 16 times that kid was shot. 16 times. While 5 or 6 cops claimed wrote down and swore to the fact that her was lunging toward the officer who was shot. So, yes, for sure, some cops lie. Body cameras would keep that kind of cop from existing.

 

[CPanther95]

It didn't help either one of them. A body camera, were the officer wearing one, could have shown that his actions were reasonable....or that there was some threat. We don't ever definitively know now, will we?

Not against body cameras at all. Just saying they are valuable after the fact, they wouldn't have helped the dead victim.

We do have an eyewitness, but I have a feeling that people inclined to believe this is justified will dismiss her point of view. Sigh. I wish there were body cameras. I think they help both sides.

I'm sure there are some - because I'm one - that generally defaults to believing law enforcement's version of events until something supports an alternate explanation. In this case, we've only heard one side - and nothing seems to contradict her version of events, so I'm likely to believe her. Considering just what we know, it's hard to imagine any story the officer could come up with that would pass the smell-test to the degree that the shooting would be considered justified.

But if we are going to develop real solutions, we need to look at incidents on a case-by-case basis. And those that try and lump in cases like the Michael Brown shooting - or support any of the aftermath that resulted in Ferguson, MO - cannot expect people to take them seriously. Those are people out on a witch-hunt against LE, not those trying to improve it.

 

[gwynne]

Not against body cameras at all. Just saying they are valuable after the fact, they wouldn't have helped the dead victim.

No, but with their use we hope they prevent more dead victims.

 

[mnrose]

Not against body cameras at all. Just saying they are valuable after the fact, they wouldn't have helped the dead victim.

Maybe. It's been shown however that reports of police misconduct drop when body cameras are in use. Probably a mix of making the cop more careful, and the alleged perpetrator more careful too. So, had they been in use here, might the result be different? Maybe. Maybe not. It sure couldn't have hurt anything to have them.

 

[Unas]

Don't try to bring facts into this! The 494 whites shot compared to 258 blacks just don't fit the agenda!

And 66% of the deaths were not black.

OK, and less than half of those shot were white. More than half were those feared "Others"

 

[CPanther95]

Maybe. It's been shown however that reports of police misconduct drop when body cameras are in use. Probably a mix of making the cop more careful, and the alleged perpetrator more careful too. So, had they been in use here, might the result be different? Maybe. Maybe not. It sure couldn't have hurt anything to have them.

Again, you are assuming "misconduct". If it turns out that is the case, then it would have helped, I'm not ready to label these officer's actions as deliberate based on what we know.

As far as being "more careful", that's the last thing that would have helped here. The cameras are great, but they won't be great if they cause police officers to hesitate to defend their own lives. The problem here was the officer saw a threat where there wasn't one and used deadly force.

 

[gwynne]

Again, you are assuming "misconduct". If it turns out that is the case, then it would have helped, I'm not ready to label these officer's actions as deliberate based on what we know.

As far as being "more careful", that's the last thing that would have helped here. The cameras are great, but they won't be great if they cause police officers to hesitate to defend their own lives. The problem here was the officer saw a threat where there wasn't one and used deadly force.

It's possible to be mature and measured and not be "hesitant". I will choose mature and measured any day.
This was a traffic stop.

 

[CPanther95]

It's possible to be mature and measured and not be "hesitant". I will choose mature and measured any day.
This was a traffic stop.

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but I agree. It's definitely better to be mature than immature - and measured than flying off the handle.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Without knowing the details I don't know if I should be outragged.

An old story was posted from my area on facebook yesterday due to the Boston Globe doing a piece about mental health issues. It involved an officer that was called to investigate a dead body but found a very heavily drugged mentally ill and still alive man with knife.

The mentally ill man who fully admits to stealing his fathers meds and taking a large number that day claims he put the knife to his throat.
The officer who was an extremely decorated officer says he held the knife out and threatened to kill him.

The officer shot the man.

I was surpised how many people blamed the officer in this situation. Why when you have a highly decorated officer that had no prior issues with violance vs a known mentally instable drugged man do we believe that the one properly relaying his version of events is the drugged man?

Oh in this case both men were white. Not that this should matter.

I find this description very stigmatizing. I will have to look up what you are referring to for "facts" because you used "mentally ill man" and "mentall ill instable [sic] drugged man" seemingly interchangeably in your description.

There are ways to handle situations like this without killing the person. Also, what makes the man's version of events unbelievable: his substance use or the fact that he had a mental illness? Should we discount the statements of people with mental illness? Statistically a person with a mental illness is more likely to be the victim of violence than the perpetrator. I don't even ever dream of involving the police in an out of control incident with a family member who is experiencing psychosis (if you call for an ambulance for mental health...you get the cops!). If that means something happens to me, ill risk it. Because calling them is a guarantee of bad things for a family member in mental health crisis -- unless the police department I'm calling by some miracle happens to have one of the very rare specialized mental health crisis teams...but even then, if they think the person is a "danger" (which can be defined as just about anything) they will send the armed guy to the door to scare the crap out of an already paranoid and frightened person anyway.

As for the story the OP is talking about, I was outraged and saddened to hear of yet another shooting involving the police. And it is disproportionate. I watched a documentary on PBS the other night and they were showing stop and frisk in NJ and I couldn't believe what I was watching. Basically against the law to to hang out outside or walk down the street without submitting to random searches. This guy in Minnesota was doing what he should have by informing the cop that he had a weapon and he was getting his wallet as instructed.