Hotel Prom Death

[design_mom]

Forgive me if I'm misreading, but I thought it said that the boy's mother was driving, the boy's mother asked the girl's mother if the girl could sleep over (at their house, not even the hotel), the girl's mother said no, and the girl was taken to the hotel anyway. If I'm misreading something, okay. Otherwise, the boy'd mother was definitely in the wrong here. Even if the girl said she wanted to go to the hotel, she is the minor. The adult here should have followed the directions of the girl's mother.

I think the article said the prom was being hosted at the hotel, and the room was rented at the same hotel. So actually TAKING her the hotel doesn't sound like a problem.

However, it sounds like the boy's mother also agreed to bring her home after the prom. Then called and tried to get permission for the girl to spend the night at the boy's house. Permission was not granted, so IMHO unless other explicit plans were made, the boy's mom was still on the hook to deliver her home after the prom, which she did not do.

She had every right to book a hotel room for her son (assuming it wasn't against hotel policy, although by booking the room, she might be assuming legal responsibility for whatever happens inside it). If the girl had O.D.ed at the prom, or had been delivered home and then sneaked back out to the hotel room, then I wouldn't think the boys' mom was responsible. (Assuming she neither provided the drugs, nor encouraged/aided in the sneaking out.)

However, it is true that the girls' choices/actions ultimately led to her death. There is plenty of blame to go around, and it is a sad situation for everyone involved.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

IMO it comes down to the "if everyone was jumping off the bridge would you?" scenario a parent drums into their child from the time they are 2 until we leave this world.

As parents the only person we can influence is our own child. Doesn't matter what the rest of the group was doing the girl is the only one responsible for doing what HER Mother wanted her to do. If she was dropped off where she didn't want to be she should have called her mother or left, it isn't anyone else's problem to deal with. As I've always told my kids if who you went to a party with someone and they drink don't get in the car on the way home, call, walk or take a taxi. But if they don't follow those rules and get in and an accident happens then they chose to ride with that person. (and 17 is old enough that you usually aren't making the plans with the parents, the kids do their own planning, I"m not clearing things with parents with teens this old)

Oh I agree that the girl holds responsibility for being somewhere she knew she wasn't supposed to be. I just think that the boy's mother also needs to accept responsibility for taking the girl to the hotel when the girl's mother said to bring her home.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I think the article said the prom was being hosted at the hotel, and the room was rented at the same hotel. So actually TAKING her the hotel doesn't sound like a problem.

However, it sounds like the boy's mother also agreed to bring her home after the prom. Then called and tried to get permission for the girl to spend the night at the boy's house. Permission was not granted, so IMHO unless other explicit plans were made, the boy's mom was still on the hook to deliver her home after the prom, which she did not do.

She had every right to book a hotel room for her son (assuming it wasn't against hotel policy, although by booking the room, she might be assuming legal responsibility for whatever happens inside it). If the girl had O.D.ed at the prom, or had been delivered home and then sneaked back out to the hotel room, then I wouldn't think the boys' mom was responsible. (Assuming she neither provided the drugs, nor encouraged/aided in the sneaking out.)

However, it is true that the girls' choices/actions ultimately led to her death. There is plenty of blame to go around, and it is a sad situation for everyone involved.

I agree.

 

[EMode]

Not exactly. She never said "give them a couple of hours." She said:

I took that to mean that she got off the phone assuming they were on their way to her house. When a few hours passed, she realized that they weren't.

I took that to mean she gave them a couple hours to do whatever and after that she never heard back. The use of the word "gave" makes me think she didn't expect them home right away. If the article said I told her to bring her home but she never showed up I'd think it was different. I can see it the way you took it too.

Still I don't have a problem with the hotel room, the boy's mom didn't have to check with the girl's mom to book it.
If she was supposed to bring the girl back right away then yes she was in the wrong. I said before I'll reserve judgment until the facts come out. The story is bound to change 10 times before the truth is known.

 

[luvsJack]

You do realize that getting a hotel on prom night is pretty common so that the couple can have sex. I have no problem with the boys mother bringing them back there. The girl's mother told the boy's mother to give them a couple of hours, she did not tell the boy's mother to bring her home immediately.
What the girl choose to do in those couple of hours was her own decision.

You really think that makes it better? That isn't what the girl's mom said, she said "I gave them a couple of hours". Meaning either she extended the curfew or she thought they would be home in a couple of hours.

It doesn't matter what the common thing is, it matter what the mother of the girl said--bring her home. And that is what the boy's mom should have done. She took on the responsibility of that child when she chose to drive them and rent the room for them.

What the boy's mom did for her own son is her business but when you involve someone else's child, you then take on responsibility for what happens to that child.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I took that to mean she gave them a couple hours to do whatever and after that she never heard back. The use of the word "gave" makes me think she didn't expect them home right away. If the article said I told her to bring her home but she never showed up I'd think it was different. I can see it the way you took it too.

Still I don't have a problem with the hotel room, the boy's mom didn't have to check with the girl's mom to book it.
If she was supposed to bring the girl back right away then yes she was in the wrong. I said before I'll reserve judgment until the facts come out. The story is bound to change 10 times before the truth is known.

You're right that she didn't have to get the girl's mom's permission prior to booking the hotel. That said, she should have been responsible enough to let the other mother in on her intentions. As the mother of a daughter, if my daughter's prom date's mother books a hotel room for my daughter and her son and I know nothing about it, my daughter would not be going out with her son again and she and I would have words.

ETA: And for all we know, both mothers might have known about the hotel. I doubt it since the girl's mother said no to her sleeping over at the boy's house, but we don't know for sure. I do think it shady that the boy's mother asked if the girl could sleep over at their house, was told no, and had a hotel room. To me, that means she either had no intention of them sleeping at her house and intended on them staying at the hotel, or she was trying to get around the mom saying no to sleeping at their house by getting them a hotel.

 

[EMode]

She didn't tell the other mom to give them a couple of hours, she said that she gave them a couple of hours. That could mean different things. She could have simply extended the curfew a couple of hours meaning "have her home at midnight instead of right now"

Since the boy's mom asked if the girl could stay at their house, it would stand to reason that the girl's mom assumed when adding the extra time they would be AT HIS HOUSE.

She said stay the night at his house so it could be assumed that they were going to sleep there, doesn't necessarily mean they were there.
I think the article said something about getting something to eat too, it could be assumed that the girls mom thought they were at a restaurant.
Lots of things can be assumed here, neither of us know anything for a fact.

 

[Hannathy]

WE don't know either, maybe the boys mother did offer to take her home and the girl refused? I mean she can't drag her into the car, she'd be arrested for that also.

Maybe she called the boy and asked what time do you want me back to take her home and the girl said I'm not going I'm staying.

Lots of ways this could have played out.

 

[EMode]

You're right that she didn't have to get the girl's mom's permission prior to booking the hotel. That said, she should have been responsible enough to let the other mother in on her intentions. As the mother of a daughter, if my daughter's prom date's mother books a hotel room for my daughter and her son and I know nothing about it, my daughter would not be going out with her son again and she and I would have words.

I'm definitely not claiming the boy's mom will win any mom of the year awards that is for sure.

The only thing I'm claiming is that she didn't need the girl's mothers permission to book the room. I don't know enough facts to claim anything else even if I have some opinions based on what was in the article.

 

[luvsJack]

IMO it comes down to the "if everyone was jumping off the bridge would you?" scenario a parent drums into their child from the time they are 2 until we leave this world.

As parents the only person we can influence is our own child. Doesn't matter what the rest of the group was doing the girl is the only one responsible for doing what HER Mother wanted her to do. If she was dropped off where she didn't want to be she should have called her mother or left, it isn't anyone else's problem to deal with. As I've always told my kids if who you went to a party with someone and they drink don't get in the car on the way home, call, walk or take a taxi. But if they don't follow those rules and get in and an accident happens then they chose to ride with that person. (and 17 is old enough that you usually aren't making the plans with the parents, the kids do their own planning, I"m not clearing things with parents with teens this old)

At 17 they certainly should be clearing plans with the parents.

Yes the girl holds some responsibility. But these kids did not drive themselves anywhere, the other mom did. They did not rent a room, the other mom did. It was the boy's mom's responsibility to take the girl home and she did not do that, she should have.

If I am taking a group of kids somewhere that is normal for them--like say, the mall, I don't clear it with the parents. But, if I was doing something out of the norm for them, like renting a room for underage kids to stay in overnight, that should be cleared with the other moms. It may be common to do on prom night, but it is not common for the rest of the year and that makes it out of the norm.

Besides the boy's mom point blank asked the girl's mom and she said no. So she tried to clear it with her and did not. That puts the responsibility back in the boy's mom's lap.

 

[luvsJack]

WE don't know either, maybe the boys mother did offer to take her home and the girl refused? I mean she can't drag her into the car, she'd be arrested for that also.

Maybe she called the boy and asked what time do you want me back to take her home and the girl said I'm not going I'm staying.

Lots of ways this could have played out.

At that point, she should have called the girl's mom and let her know that.

The boy's mom is not responsible for the girl's death in that we know that she gave her pills and alcohol. She is responsible for the fact that the girl did not go home and her mother did not know where she was.

 

[EMode]

At 17 they certainly should be clearing plans with the parents.

Yes the girl holds some responsibility. But these kids did not drive themselves anywhere, the other mom did. They did not rent a room, the other mom did. It was the boy's mom's responsibility to take the girl home and she did not do that, she should have.

If I am taking a group of kids somewhere that is normal for them--like say, the mall, I don't clear it with the parents. But, if I was doing something out of the norm for them, like renting a room for underage kids to stay in overnight, that should be cleared with the other moms. It may be common to do on prom night, but it is not common for the rest of the year and that makes it out of the norm.

Besides the boy's mom point blank asked the girl's mom and she said no. So she tried to clear it with her and did not. That puts the responsibility back in the boy's mom's lap.

See this is where we differ. If I'm renting a room for my own child and he/she wants their friends to stay over night at age 17 it is up to those friends to run that by their parents and get permission. I don't call friends parents to make sure they can sleep over my house, they arrange that with their parents themselves. This is the same thing IMO. I will ask that they do get permission but I'll take their word on it, I'm not checking up.
I stopped calling parents a couple years ago, and just because its prom night doesn't mean I'm going to be starting again.

 

[mom2rtk]

If I called another parent and asked for their child to stay longer with mine and they flat out said no..........all sorts of red flags would be going up in my head at the very thought of defying that parent's wishes. Voices would be screaming at me that I can't do that. I just cannot imagine crossing that line. It's a very hostile act. What kind of person does that?

 

[luvsJack]

She said stay the night at his house so it could be assumed that they were going to sleep there, doesn't necessarily mean they were there.
I think the article said something about getting something to eat too, it could be assumed that the girls mom thought they were at a restaurant.
Lots of things can be assumed here, neither of us know anything for a fact.

No we can only guess on much of it . There are several reasons why the girl's mom wasn't aware of where her daughter was, but too many things point back to the boy's mom not doing the responsible thing.

They had a room booked at the hotel of the prom--boy's mom booked it, fine, but before 1 kid other than her son stayed in that room, the parents should have know about it.

The were going to get something to eat--if it was going to be past the girl's curfew, then the boy's mom should have made sure the girl made that clear to her mom and give an estimated time that she would be home.

The boy's mom asked if the girl could stay at her house--but yet, she had booked a room? And the girl's mom said no, bring her home. The boy's mom didn't do that.

Now, the alcohol and pills could have come from anywhere. I don't see the boy's mom as being responsible enough NOT to have bought the booze, but maybe she didn't. And its probable that she didn't know anything about the pills. Those things go back to the girl and the boy.

 

[Hannathy]

At 17 they certainly should be clearing plans with the parents.

Yes the girl holds some responsibility. But these kids did not drive themselves anywhere, the other mom did. They did not rent a room, the other mom did. It was the boy's mom's responsibility to take the girl home and she did not do that, she should have.

If I am taking a group of kids somewhere that is normal for them--like say, the mall, I don't clear it with the parents. But, if I was doing something out of the norm for them, like renting a room for underage kids to stay in overnight, that should be cleared with the other moms. It may be common to do on prom night, but it is not common for the rest of the year and that makes it out of the norm.

Besides the boy's mom point blank asked the girl's mom and she said no. So she tried to clear it with her and did not. That puts the responsibility back in the boy's mom's lap.

And if the girl wouldn't leave? what is the mom to do?

And you seriously clear the plans for your 17 yr old? whose going to clear the plans in 2 months when she is at school? Or are they suddenly going to know how to do that in 2 months?

 

[mom2rtk]

See this is where we differ. If I'm renting a room for my own child and he/she wants their friends to stay over night at age 17 it is up to those friends to run that by their parents and get permission. I don't call friends parents to make sure they can sleep over my house, they arrange that with their parents themselves. This is the same thing IMO. I will ask that they do get permission but I'll take their word on it, I'm not checking up.
I stopped calling parents a couple years ago, and just because its prom night doesn't mean I'm going to be starting again.

But I see even that as a bit different. You said you wouldn't call. But the boy's mom DID call. And was told no.

 

[Hannathy]

She is responsible for the fact that the girl did not go home and her mother did not know where she was.

Unless she had the girl restrained/tied up she is not responsible the girl didn't go home. That is the girls responsibility. Like I said she can't physically make the girl go home. She can't pick her up and put her in the car.

 

[design_mom]

See this is where we differ. If I'm renting a room for my own child and he/she wants their friends to stay over night at age 17 it is up to those friends to run that by their parents and get permission. I don't call friends parents to make sure they can sleep over my house, they arrange that with their parents themselves. This is the same thing IMO. I will ask that they do get permission but I'll take their word on it, I'm not checking up.
I stopped calling parents a couple years ago, and just because its prom night doesn't mean I'm going to be starting again.

Except apparently the boy's mom *was* involved in clearing the plans because she called the girl's mom and asked permission for a sleepover, and that permission was denied. I suppose it's possible the girl outright lied and said that her mother had granted her permission after she'd originally denied it, but quite frankly, even at 17, if a parent had explicitly told me their child COULDN'T do something, then the child told me the opposite, I'd be double-checking.

And if the girl wouldn't leave? what is the mom to do?

Then the boy's mom calls the girl's mom and says "She's refusing to come with me after the prom, so I will not be able to bring her home after all." Then the ball is back in the girl's parents' court.

 

[EMode]

But I see even that as a bit different. You said you wouldn't call. But the boy's mom DID call. And was told no.

Yes that is true and for all we know the plan was for the boy's mom to eventually pick the girl up and bring her home.
The mom asked if she could spend the night at her house and was told no bring her home (not sure if that was meant immediately or sometime before sunrise). The boy's mom did not take her to her home, she brought them back to the hotel where the prom was and their was a room booked. Maybe she booked it so the could have sex. maybe she did book it so they could party. Maybe the intention was to bring the girl home later and not have her stay the night. Maybe when she didn't receive a call to come get the girl she assumed a 17 year old called her parent and worked something out.
Again, we can assume alot of things and until the facts are out I'm not placing any judgment on the boy's mom.

I asked before but why is nobody asking about what the girl's mother did to try and find her? If your dd wasn't brought home like you told another parent too, would you sit around and do nothing or would you start calling around to find her? I find that incredibly odd that there was no mention of the mom looking for her dd, just waiting. Of course that could have been left out of the article, but I would think hey would have put it in.

 

[luvsJack]

And if the girl wouldn't leave? what is the mom to do?

And you seriously clear the plans for your 17 yr old? whose going to clear the plans in 2 months when she is at school? Or are they suddenly going to know how to do that in 2 months?

She should have called the other mom. She knew the other mom said no, she asked her. And even if the girl had not died, letting the girl's mom sit and worry all not was not the adult thing to do.

If I am driving the kids somewhere and one of them has a curfew and we plan to be out after that curfew, then yes, I make sure they call. Just as I expect dd to do when the tables are turned and she will do when she is out driving herself or with her bf driving. And I said plainly, if its something out of the norm, I will clear it ahead of time--I don't plan to rent hotel rooms for them but if I did.

Last weekend, we took dd and her bf to NOLA. Should I have just taken him without knowing his mom knew where he was going? I didn't talk to her, but I knew that he did. He was supposed to be home at a certain time, when it was obvious we weren't going to make that time, should I just let her sit and worry? No, I told him to call and he did.

DD will be just turned 18 when she goes to college. She already has the skills in place to make decisions on where to go and the choices to make. Me sitting here worrying all night isn't required for that nor is staying at a hotel on prom night especially if I have already plainly said no.